Modified S&S 111 CI motor question

[hotbagger1]

I was thinking of putting in S&S 111 CI crate motor in my 2000 Electra Glide my reason for doing this is because I hear horror stories about the S&S 124 overheating and that the 111 has near stock reliability. When you modify the 111 motors say more head work maybe a bigger cam and a little bit more compression maybe 10 and 1/2 to 1 what kind of numbers torque and horsepower are you looking at?

[TorQuePimp]

Build a 113/117 and have what you want instead of tearing apart a crate and ditching the warranty

[jls 64]

Build a 113/117 and have what you want instead of tearing apart a crate and ditching the warranty

:agree:built 117.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

I was thinking of putting in S&S 111 CI crate motor in my 2000 Electra Glide my reason for doing this is because I hear horror stories about the S&S 124 overheating and that the 111 has near stock reliability. When you modify the 111 motors say more head work maybe a bigger cam and a little bit more compression maybe 10 and 1/2 to 1 what kind of numbers torque and horsepower are you looking at?

No overheating with a 124", with a good oil cooler.
Have a client with over 140,000 on his.
The S&S 111" can be strong, with attention to a few things.

[kd]

 

[jmorton10]

No overheating with a 124", with a good oil cooler.
Have a client with over 140,000 on his.

I agree.  I have a 124 with oil buddy cooler  & my digital dakota oil temp gauge has never read over 220 degrees even in 100 degree weather.

~John

[1workinman]

KD I got a 124 inch SS with a 640 set at 11.2 . I live in Texas and it gets hot here although when it gets 100 deg I done ridding / At any rate I have a oil cooler and the wards cooling fans. Now I seen 250 on the oil temp before ridding 80 on the inner state ridding two up . That's at 95 degrees day . I use the best fuel 93 or what ever I can find . I never ran 87 although I think I could . The key for me is to avoid large towns and stop and go traffic if possible . The wards help a lot also for me . . I got to a point that when it gets that hot like a 100 degs I going to load up the inclosed trailer and haul it to cool lol especially on vacation . I done swetting my butt off .

[misfitJason]

Hillside...The S&S 111" can be strong, with attention to a few things.





which things would you recommend?

[calgary56]

I went with a STOCK S&S 111" because the stroke is only .125" longer than the 4.000" I had in my stock 88"/95", and that puppy was RELIABLE (246,000 kms before first rebuild, and it WAS NOT displacement related).

Bike is 2005 Wide Glide
Engine is 2016 S&S 111"
Bore: 4.125" X Stroke: 4.125"
Compression: 9.8:1
S&S 585 cams
HPI-58D1-18 Delphi 58mm Throttle Body
HPI-DINJ-2 Injectors; 5.3 grams per second, Provides a fuel delivery rate of 4.3gps (33.3lbs/h)
Open Intake - K&N Round Filter

Bassani Road Rage 2 into 1 exhaust
119 HP & 119 TQ

With

Bassani Road Rage B1 - 2 into 1 exhaust
127 HP & 123 TQ

I'm now running a Thundeheader, ThunderMax tuner, and have a VPC, no dyno numbers because they want $250.00 just to put it on the dyno then $150.00 and hour, but this thing hauls !!!

Oh, I also have a Harley, thermostat controlled oil cooler, have ridden in Las Vega, Death Valley, Texas, and Southern Arizona at 100*F plus temperatures (300 - 600 mile days), can't tell you what the temps are, no gauge, but no issues.

[1workinman]

That's pretty amazing that the 110 makes that kind of hp and torque . I would have thought it would have been around 110 or so and a bit more torque . I never had one or even seen a dyno sheet on one . Sound good

[calgary56]

That's pretty amazing that the 110 makes that kind of hp and torque . I would have thought it would have been around 110 or so and a bit more torque . I never had one or even seen a dyno sheet on one . Sound good

the 110 probably doesn't, but S&S makes that extra cubic inch do wonders

[98fxstc]

nothing wrong with 110s

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Hillside...The S&S 111" can be strong, with attention to a few things.





which things would you recommend?

Contact us, and happy to go over the details.
315-495-6650, M-F, 8-5, EST.

[dsvracer]

the S&S 111 is a good motor combination and can be made to have great power with the correct components. unfortunately the dyno sheet shown here do not reflect a good combination of parts, JMO.  they are not bad numbers but there is no bottom end power. power does not start until 3500 and ends at 4,000 is not something that would be fun to ride. imo opinion there are two kinds of power. the kind where you accelerate out of the hole and down the track, then there is the kind that is lazy on the bottom and can accelerate and catch you. you can either lead or chase in a race. this bike is definitely a chase race . 

[Don D]

On another note, the 111, 117, and 124 from S&S all share the same pistons and compression height. I have this year already had many sent to me to fix due to oil consumption.  I believe the root cause is piston / ring package design and releasing of heat. These cylinders present out of round and tapered. I expect they were close on day 1 and deteriorating as they run.

[calgary56]

the S&S 111 is a good motor combination and can be made to have great power with the correct components. unfortunately the dyno sheet shown here do not reflect a good combination of parts, JMO.  they are not bad numbers but there is no bottom end power. power does not start until 3500 and ends at 4,000 is not something that would be fun to ride. imo opinion there are two kinds of power. the kind where you accelerate out of the hole and down the track, then there is the kind that is lazy on the bottom and can accelerate and catch you. you can either lead or chase in a race. this bike is definitely a chase race .

I'm pretty sure the lack of bottom end power on MY dyno sheets was because the clutch was slipping. No tach on a Wide Glide, but my hearing still works, ..... when riding at 60 mph in 5th, and get hard on the throttle, I can hear the engine spin up faster than the bike, ... THEN the bike catches up. Haven't had a dyno done since I put the VPC clutch and heavier springs in, but it pulls hard now, these 585 cams do like to be up in the rpm range to make power though, not like my old SE203 or SE204 cams

[1workinman]

On another note, the 111, 117, and 124 from S&S all share the same pistons and compression height. I have this year already had many sent to me to fix due to oil consumption.  I believe the root cause is piston / ring package design and releasing of heat. These cylinders present out of round and tapered. I expect they were close on day 1 and deteriorating as they run.

I had some of that one also on both the 124 and the 143 lol engines

[pwmorris]

the S&S 111 is a good motor combination and can be made to have great power with the correct components. unfortunately the dyno sheet shown here do not reflect a good combination of parts, JMO.  they are not bad numbers but there is no bottom end power. power does not start until 3500 and ends at 4,000 is not something that would be fun to ride. imo opinion there are two kinds of power. the kind where you accelerate out of the hole and down the track, then there is the kind that is lazy on the bottom and can accelerate and catch you. you can either lead or chase in a race. this bike is definitely a chase race .

I'm pretty sure the lack of bottom end power on MY dyno sheets was because the clutch was slipping. No tach on a Wide Glide, but my hearing still works, ..... when riding at 60 mph in 5th, and get hard on the throttle, I can hear the engine spin up faster than the bike, ... THEN the bike catches up. Haven't had a dyno done since I put the VPC clutch and heavier springs in, but it pulls hard now, these 585 cams do like to be up in the rpm range to make power though, not like my old SE203 or SE204 cams

Dan Vance knows what he speaks....
What you hear, think, feel, or guess don't cut it. Post a corrected SAE dyno sheet with conditions and with the lock up VPC. The sheet is what it is. I've heard and seen it all, from "a stingy dyno", to "not a good tune", "bike was sumping", "it was a hot day so numbers are down", "clutch was slipping", "not enough pulls", and on and on.....To my all time favorites "is it in the right gear?!", and the encore of all......"my builder says it makes much more at the flywheel!".
Better yet, go to another shop and make a pull....you might be surprised. Walk the talk.
I've seen dozens of 111" sheets crate with all kinds of pipes, and never seen 120 square plus no matter what the pipe.
I can post S&S sheet from their crate 9.8 CR 111" if you doubt it. Most run 105-115 well tuned legit, and usually one side or the other. None, none pull 120-130 square. The .585 does make power but the comp just doesn't keep up. Squeeze the pipe to bump comp? Watch the HP drop.
No free lunch.

[calgary56]

the S&S 111 is a good motor combination and can be made to have great power with the correct components. unfortunately the dyno sheet shown here do not reflect a good combination of parts, JMO.  they are not bad numbers but there is no bottom end power. power does not start until 3500 and ends at 4,000 is not something that would be fun to ride. imo opinion there are two kinds of power. the kind where you accelerate out of the hole and down the track, then there is the kind that is lazy on the bottom and can accelerate and catch you. you can either lead or chase in a race. this bike is definitely a chase race .

I'm pretty sure the lack of bottom end power on MY dyno sheets was because the clutch was slipping. No tach on a Wide Glide, but my hearing still works, ..... when riding at 60 mph in 5th, and get hard on the throttle, I can hear the engine spin up faster than the bike, ... THEN the bike catches up. Haven't had a dyno done since I put the VPC clutch and heavier springs in, but it pulls hard now, these 585 cams do like to be up in the rpm range to make power though, not like my old SE203 or SE204 cams

Dan Vance knows what he speaks....
What you hear, think, feel, or guess don't cut it. Post a corrected SAE dyno sheet with conditions and with the lock up VPC. The sheet is what it is. I've heard and seen it all, from "a stingy dyno", to "not a good tune", "bike was sumping", "it was a hot day so numbers are down", "clutch was slipping", "not enough pulls", and on and on.....To my all time favorites "is it in the right gear?!", and the encore of all......"my builder says it makes much more at the flywheel!".
Better yet, go to another shop and make a pull....you might be surprised. Walk the talk.
I've seen dozens of 111" sheets crate with all kinds of pipes, and never seen 120 square plus no matter what the pipe.
I can post S&S sheet from their crate 9.8 CR 111" if you doubt it. Most run 105-115 well tuned legit, and usually one side or the other. None, none pull 12but0-130 square. The .585 does make power but the comp just doesn't keep up. Squeeze the pipe to bump comp? Watch the HP drop.
No free lunch.

Not to hijack this guy's thread, .... but

I'd like to start off by saying my postings weren't to show off on how 'hot' an engine I have in my bike, they were to answer the original question about a guy wanting to choose between a 124 or a 111.

Up until my post, no one had shown a dyno sheet, I had 2, so I thought I'd post mine to give the guy some sort of reference. Are they 100% accurate, I don't know, they were done at the dealership where I had some work done to the bike.

I had the VPC and heavier springs put in, not because of the dyno sheets, but because of what I felt riding. ThunderMax tuner was installed because I was getting irritated having to get a f'n tune every time I made a change to the intake/engine/trans/exhaust.

I rode 3,000 miles before I had the clutch work done, I've ridden 38,656 miles since, and I am quite happy with how this thing performs.

Will it out-perform a stout 107, 110, or 124 from light to light around town, don't know, don't care, as that's not my style riding, but over a six to eight hour ride outside the city, in the prairies, foothills, or mountains, it holds its own, ..... and if I really want to be an asshole, she'll be out front more times than it's not.

So - hotbagger1, disregard my dyno sheet post, just know that I enjoy the hell outta this 111

[dynabagger]