Grudge Box tranny mainshaft race options

[les]

Thank you, OhioHD.  I ordered the S&S race.  I'll make sure to measure and examine like you say.

[jmorton10]

I finally get what has been explained here, thanks for all the info guys.

I have the S&S race on the way to go with my new Grudgebox when it gets here.

~John

[les]

OhioHD, you've been very assertive in terms of advising about measuring, and not just trusting that the S&S race automatically gets positioned correctly (30-35 ft/lbs of torque) on the Grudge Box mainshaft.

There must be a deeper story behind this.  In other words, a not so pleasant surprise.  Care to elaborate more about that?

[Ohio HD]

No, not any stories to tell. The five speed shaft and the baker shaft are virtually the same from the clutch back to the main drive gear. When using the OEM race there is no stop for the race, so you need to know where it goes. The end of the main drive gear may or may not be in the same place on the two shafts, I don't have a complete five speed here, only some parts from one. So the OEM measurement of the race 0.100" from the main drive gear may not be correct. So I caution, be careful and measure. The S&S race should be a no brainier, and is longer, but I've seen people screw up a lead ball because they're not careful.

Anything I do that's not an OEM replacement service, I check and double check. It's why my stuff doesn't go poof when I ride them.

[johncr]

Another thing to watch for. If using the S&S race and Bandit clutch,  the hub on the Bandit has a longer snout out the back and will hit the race before it goes on all the way.
I've experienced this on a 2006 model.

[jmorton10]

Another thing to watch for. If using the S&S race and Bandit clutch

That's exactly what I am using, what did you do to solve that problem??

~John

[johncr]

I ended up using the HD race with sleeve lock locktite.
However,  I heard Bandit could mill it off prior to shipment or a competent machine shop could do the same.

[FXDBI]

Anything I do that's not an OEM replacement service, I check and double check. It's why my stuff doesn't go poof when I ride them.

    Bob

[FSG]

Another thing to watch for. If using the S&S race and Bandit clutch,  the hub on the Bandit has a longer snout out the back and will hit the race before it goes on all the way.
I've experienced this on a 2006 model.

I remember when that all came to light, another was also affected, IMO it's not a big deal to measure it up and take some off the snout, which is what I'd do if needed

Around that time did a John Sach special and tigged an OEM race to the mainshaft

[jmorton10]

Around that time did a John Sach special and tigged an OEM race to the mainshaft

LOL don't think I'll go that route although that would certainly cure the problem of the race walking.

I used to have an old Bridgeport that was a gift to me from a speed shop owner that was going out of business (I was his Snap-On tool dealer at the time).  I don't have it anymore, it took up too much room in my garage & I hardly ever used it.

I wish I had it back now for situations like this. I used to have an awesome speed/machine shop right near my house that was owned by another friend who would knock out small stuff like this for me for free, but that guy died & the shop closed.

I used red loctite & the stock race the last time I had it apart & it had not moved at all when I took it apart.  Since there are no machine shops in my area that I trust any more I'm not sure what I'll do at this point.

~John

[klammer76]

In 2017 when I installed my SE OD 6 speed I removed the oem race and used a S&S tapered race (main shaft same dimensions as the oem 5 speed). I installed per S&S' instructions. I was a little concerned as the race is longer and protruded from the IPB toward the clutch hub more than the shorter oem race. Was also concerned that the S&S doesn't install as close to the main drive gear as the oem 0.100 the manual calls for. So I put a smear of grease on the race, installed the inner primary with seal then removed and witnessed the grease mark. Also installed the clutch while the transmission was out (easier to see) to insure the hub didn't contact the race. All was good all the way around. I have since installed a new S&S race after replacing a loose pulley nut and quad seal.

[les]

I've seen specifications for the race anywhere from .100" - .200", and have done them in that range.  One thing I found when doing an OEM race on the old 5-speed bikes is that the metal battery hold down clamp can be used as a handy tool to measure the maindrive gear/race gap of just a tad over .100".  You hold the flat part with your hand and stick the curved end to get in there to measure and verify the gap.  Back when doing 5-speeds I considered it just another "specialty" tool, that I also just happen to use to hold my battery from flopping around.  lol

[klammer76]

I've seen specifications for the race anywhere from .100" - .200", and have done them in that range.  One thing I found when doing an OEM race on the old 5-speed bikes is that the metal battery hold down clamp can be used as a handy tool to measure the maindrive gear/race gap of just a tad over .100".  You hold the flat part with your hand and stick the curved end to get in there to measure and verify the gap.  Back when doing 5-speeds I considered it just another "specialty" tool, that I also just happen to use to hold my battery from flopping around.  lol

Yup, saw that here years ago (may have been a post from you). 

[johncr]

Good or bad idea -  pull the HD Race (with the proper tools) and re-use it?

[Ohio HD]

Good or bad idea -  pull the HD Race (with the proper tools) and re-use it?

OEM six speed race doesn't fit a Baker transmission. Nor would I reuse one.

[jls 64]

2006/five speed 2007 six speed are the same diameter. no reuse it. bad idea.

[FSG]

Around that time did a John Sach special and tigged an OEM race to the mainshaft

LOL don't think I'll go that route although that would certainly cure the problem of the race walking.

      the tig spot wasn't much more than a spec of fly chit , doesn't need much to stop it walking

[jsachs1]

Around that time did a John Sach special and tigged an OEM race to the mainshaft

LOL don't think I'll go that route although that would certainly cure the problem of the race walking.

      the tig spot wasn't much more than a spec of fly chit , doesn't need much to stop it walking

2 small tacs, 180 degrees apart. Linde (tig) MG 600 rod for dissimilar metals.
John

[les]

OhioHD, the S&S race installed perfectly on the GB mainshaft.  Again, thanks so much for the information.  Mine came out under .100" gap from the maindrive gear.  Guessing about 80% of that, but don't matter because a does not touch, is a does not touch, and it ain't moving in.

One thing I noticed about the clutch hub nut, is that when I torque it down to 80 lbs., it's not flush with the end of the mainshaft.  I guess that's just how the GB mainshaft comes out to be.

Thank you, sir!

[Ohio HD]

     

[jmorton10]

I'll be putting that same combo together (S&S race & Grudgebox), but I'm not going to work on the bike until after Christmas. The weather here SUCKS & I'm sick of working on the thing for now LOL.

~John

[kd]

I've been following this thread and want to buy the 56-5084 bearing race for my GrudgeBox.  I didn't know I could use the S&S 56-5089 race and the OEM roller.  I have a new roller but can't find the 56-5089 on the S&S site.  It keeps kicking out the 06 up race no matter what I do.      I do not have my 2011 RGU in the "shop by bike" application.  Anyone else have this issue?  I would like to get one ordered.  Maybe I should call them. 

Ohio gave me a push in a great direction but I still wanna know why I can't get the S&S site to find it when I search with the part number?

[Ohio HD]

It's listed in the S&S 2019 price book. But I imagine they don't sell many now days, so don't bother with putting it on the web site. Probably soon to be obsolete.