Pulleys and Transmission Gearing Comparison

[hulkss]

I have a 2019 Heritage Softail. This bike has the tallest gearing that H-D ships. Since factory H-D transmissions are 1:1 in high gear, it's the pulleys on the drive belt that make the difference. This bike has has 32/66 tooth pulleys. It has been said that the bikes are geared this way to reduce noise and emissions.

I find the lower gears off just a bit. I ride through a lot of small towns where 3rd seems just a touch too tall and 2nd is too low. On the highway (not interstate) I am shifting between 5th and 6th a lot. 6th is too high and 5th is too low, however, 6th is a great gear to run high speed on the interstate.

We can change a late model Softail to a 30/68 pulley set using H-D parts, keeping the same drive belt. This makes the gearing near perfect. It adds 10% more torque multiplication in each gear and is said to be great fun to ride. One downside is you loose that high speed cruising gear.

Baker DriveTrain makes the DD7 seven speed transmission. It's 1:1 in high gear like stock H-D transmissions and I never thought it made much sense because I wanted an overdrive on other bikes. AhHa....the new Softails are geared so tall they already have gearing as tall as an overdrive.

I made a chart so you can compare the stock set-up, to the pulley swap, to the Baker DD7. The charts are based on the measured torque of my 2019 heritage 114 Stage II. Each gear line has data points from 2000 to 6000 rpm at 500 rpm increments. If I shift where the torque lines cross, I will get maximum possible acceleration in each gear (all these curves are at WOT). I labeled all the 3000 rpm points with their corresponding speed in mph. The left side torque axis has a Log scale to it, that keeps the gear lines equally spaced if the percent ratio change between gears is equal.

Sixth gear with the pulley swap is the same as sixth gear with the DD7, however, with the DD7 you can shift up one more time when out on the interstate. Sweet. The DD7 also reduces the huge step from 1st to 2nd gear. Second gear should be better on those really tight switch backs in the mountains.

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[PoorUB]

I get a kick out of this. I have owned a 2005, a 2010 Ultras, and now a 2016 Limited and never felt a need to spend money on the drive line. I just got accustomed to the gearing and ride apropriately. I also have pulled  a trailer with all three motorcycles with no issue.
I know it makes some guys crazy to run 5th at 60 MPH, but it doesn't  bother me. It doesn't  bother me to run 3,000-3,500 RPM on the highway. It won't bother the engine to keep it rev'd up a bit, but some guys just can't do it.

[hulkss]

I get a kick out of this. I have owned a 2005, a 2010 Ultras, and now a 2016 Limited and never felt a need to spend money on the drive line. I just got accustomed to the gearing and ride apropriately. I also have pulled  a trailer with all three motorcycles with no issue.
I know it makes some guys crazy to run 5th at 60 MPH, but it doesn't  bother me. It doesn't  bother me to run 3,000-3,500 RPM on the highway. It won't bother the engine to keep it rev'd up a bit, but some guys just can't do it.

I don't feel a strong need either, the motorcycle is a hobby. I modify the bike for fun, however, I do try to study things first and not wast time and money on a modification with no benefit. I think I might like a DD7, lots of good reports here.

[tbird]

2007 touring bikes, 1st yr 6-speed, had same problem, geared to high. Many, including myself replaced the 66 tooth rear pulley with a 68 tooth sportster pulley. It was probably the best mod I did to the bike. In 2009 touring bikes got a 68.

[Ohio HD]

Might want to dig deeper here. Lots of unhappy DD7 owners here.

[hulkss]

Might want to dig deeper here. Lots of unhappy DD7 owners here.

I got the impression that the design has evolved over the past 10 years. Shifter forks, dogs, main drive bearing, etc.

I certainly expect it to be a reliable item today in a lighter bike with under 130 ft-lbs of engine torque. Am I wrong?

[IronButt70]

Might want to dig deeper here. Lots of unhappy DD7 owners here.

I got the impression that the design has evolved over the past 10 years. Shifter forks, dogs, main drive bearing, etc.

I certainly expect it to be a reliable item today in a lighter bike with under 130 ft-lbs of engine torque. Am I wrong?

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,109800.0.html

[hulkss]

It seems that person uses a Pingle air shifter. He "ripped six teeth off the 3rd gear in the stock 6 speed" then put in the DD7 with the air shifter.

I don't know what to make of that. His transmission has not yet been returned to Baker for problem resolution.

[FXDBI]

40576-06-black  and  40578-06-silver  are 70 tooth rear sprockets used in the 2006 Dyna international model.     Bob

[PoorUB]

I don't feel a strong need either, the motorcycle is a hobby. I modify the bike for fun, however, I do try to study things first and not wast time and money on a modification with no benefit. I think I might like a DD7, lots of good reports here.

Yeah, I forget about the "fix it until it breaks" crowd!

Then you have the guys that buy a new Harley and never do anything to them except gas, oil and tires and ride it. I am somewhere  in the middle.

[Ohio HD]

Buy what you like, I do. All I said was dig deeper, not weigh in on one guys post. Use the search function.......   

[hulkss]

Buy what you like, I do. All I said was dig deeper, not weigh in on one guys post. Use the search function.......

Yes, there have been problems with the DD7 for sure. If the manufacturing quality is on target, it should be good. Seems like the designers and engineers have debugged the design over the years.

I think it's on par with the rest of the bike....Hmmm...that might not be best benchmark.

[Deye76]

"Yeah, I forget about the "fix it until it breaks" crowd!"

Like that hop up build you did a couple years ago. 

Changing gearing seldom results in breakage. Gearing changes can get improved exceleration, without going into the motor, or a little more top end without going into the gearbox.

[Ohio HD]

"Yeah, I forget about the "fix it until it breaks" crowd!"

Like that hop up build you did a couple years ago. 

   

[PoorUB]

"Yeah, I forget about the "fix it until it breaks" crowd!"

Like that hop up build you did a couple years ago. 

Yes, but recognizing you have a HP problem and admitting it is the first step towards recovery.
Then I bought my Yamaha R1! 

It cost me less than one of my Harley hop ups, goes even faster and doesn't break! 

[skunk]

I have a 08 Road Glide (with the sexy fairing) with the 32/66  rear gearing. Always thought it was a little high taking off and the splits felt weird, (I tow a Bushtec trailer on trips). changed to the 68t sportster pulley and a 31 front and it felt better but wanted the rev's back down in top gear for our western states. I put the DD7 in it with the 31/68, felt like a pro stock going thru the gears. I went back to the stock 32/66 with the DD7 and am very happy with the gearing. The DD7, not so much. Yes I am one of the ones with Baker issues. Sometimes 1-2 and 2-3 shifts the trans will shift into the next gear but the shifter goes limp, have to kick it several times to get it to grab the next gear. Not a huge issue but for what these transmissions cost shouldn't be. I contacted customer service and got the "haven't heard of that before" answer. Now that the season has kinda come to an end I will revisit it again with Baker. Overall I like the transmission and realy like the gear spacing. The lower 1st with the taller stock gearing comes out about right, even 2 up with the loaded trailer.

[hulkss]

"Yeah, I forget about the "fix it until it breaks" crowd!"

Like that hop up build you did a couple years ago. 

I like to remember it as a learning experience.   

[hulkss]

I have a 08 Road Glide (with the sexy fairing) with the 32/66  rear gearing. Always thought it was a little high taking off and the splits felt weird, (I tow a Bushtec trailer on trips). changed to the 68t sportster pulley and a 31 front and it felt better but wanted the rev's back down in top gear for our western states. I put the DD7 in it with the 31/68, felt like a pro stock going thru the gears. I went back to the stock 32/66 with the DD7 and am very happy with the gearing. The DD7, not so much. Yes I am one of the ones with Baker issues. Sometimes 1-2 and 2-3 shifts the trans will shift into the next gear but the shifter goes limp, have to kick it several times to get it to grab the next gear. Not a huge issue but for what these transmissions cost shouldn't be. I contacted customer service and got the "haven't heard of that before" answer. Now that the season has kinda come to an end I will revisit it again with Baker. Overall I like the transmission and realy like the gear spacing. The lower 1st with the taller stock gearing comes out about right, even 2 up with the loaded trailer.

The chart I made in the first post was my attempt to see in the numbers, what you have experienced on the road. Thanks for the comments.

I put a Baker XL6 transmission into a 2002 Sportster many years ago. It was much better than the 5 speed it replaced and it worked great. Can I get lucky twice?? I would like to avoid problems, but hey, just looking at the bike all winter is no fun.

[boooby1744]

I have a DD7 in my '12 RK. 13,000on a stage 1, And about 2500 on my stage2. Never really beat on it. My only problem is  the 2-3 shift if I don't pull the clutch all the way in. For a city dweller,the ratios are perfect.

[1workinman]

"Yeah, I forget about the "fix it until it breaks" crowd!"

Like that hop up build you did a couple years ago. 

I like to remember it as a learning experience.   

I had a few of them also and if driving a stock Harley makes one happy then by all means do so . I re geared my bike a tad lower and I like it that way . I never worried about fuel economy one way or the other. At one time I had given some thought to the DD 7 but since I don't drive stock Harley I think the DD7 is going to have problems with a 124 inch motor or that is what I heard. But If I wanted one I buy it . Main thing is will it have any warranty .

[Rockout Rocker Products]

I just recently got my DD7 back from Baker.... klanking, noisy shifting from the start. Probably put it back in over the TG long weekend & will update things on another thread.

The support from Baker has been.... uninspiring.

[1workinman]

I just recently got my DD7 back from Baker.... klanking, noisy shifting from the start. Probably put it back in over the TG long weekend & will update things on another thread.

The support from Baker has been.... uninspiring.

I heard that also when i got mt 145 inch motor i was thinking if i had transmission problems i just buy a grudge but i was told me point blank they can fail and to keep that in mine