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Tman 590 v Andrews 67

Started by hogmandon, November 17, 2019, 08:43:19 AM

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hogmandon

I am thinking about changing out my Tman590 to an Andrews 67H to drop my compression a little. 44 close verses 48 close on67s with less lift. Was wondering if any of you have used the 67s.
Bike runs great but is very hot in the summer. CCP is now 210 and the 67s should drop it to around 200. Build is 06 RG 107 all bore 10.8 to 1. great bottom end and don't want to give up much on the bottom if possible. Cam swap is the easiest way to drop compression. Don't want to tear down top end it is tight and quiet.
thanks for any info

Timinator

The T-Man has better cylinder filling due to a faster opening and closing ramp rate. The Andrews with slower ramp rates will drop power every where. The 4 degrees difference in the closing will change little with your detonation issues.  The easiest and cheapest way to figure this out is to buy an offset drive cam gear, several companies make them and they sell for less than $75.00. It is also a quick install. Just retard the cam 4 degrees and you will know if that was the best and cheapest choice.
The Andrews will lose power everywhere, due to the slower ramp rate/ cylinder filling, but the retarded sprocket will only lose a small amount of bottom end, and raise the upper end HP over 3000 rpm. If you don't like that option, you need to investigate why you have detonation and address the true problem.
I live in Phoenix, AZ. where the summer temps are usually over 100 degrees from early April until the end of September, peaking at 114+ during June, July, and August, and all of our family's bikes run 11 to 1 compression on 91 pump gas just fine. BUT, when we build motors, we zero deck the jugs, and run .030 head gaskets to tighten the quench area. That is a big deal!
The only problem I have ever had is with my 2005 CVO 103 Fatboy, it had the almost no quench hemi heads. Rather than replace the good flowing heads, I milled them .055" to increase the flat around the bore to almost double the width of the very small quench ring, then used a 110 drop on kit with .030 head gaskets that also added to the quench. At 10.9 comp, and a SE 257 cam it had much more power and the only time it would detonate was if you lugged the motor down below 2200 rpm in 4th or fifth gear, and there is no reason to do that anyway. It did make 121.7 HP and roasted the 150 rear tire!
That's why I traded it in on the Pro Street Breakout with the 240 tire, then  still need a stickier tire  with the current build, also at 11.0 to 1 comp with no detonation, and again with zero decked jugs and .030 head gaskets. 136 HP on pump gas and no detonation even when it hits 116 degrees the last two summers. Although I do need to install my oil cooler, that's been sitting on my bench!
Just some random ideas for you to think about.
ALSO we run the T-Max stand alone computers on all of our builds!!!!
                               TIMINATOR
MODESTY IS A CRUTCH FOR THE INCOMPETENT!!!

Ohio HD

November 17, 2019, 10:19:39 AM #2 Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 11:18:42 AM by Ohio HD
I think you may loose lower end power with the Andrews. I'd be tempted to use the S&S HP103. 

The Andrews has an early opening exhaust, and wide lobe centers. Both will push torque upwards, and loose it downwards.


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Don D

Your chart shows the TW60. Should be TW67.
The TW67 IME works well at 11:1. The bike detonates, consider oil in the combustion and/or timing adjustments needed.

Ohio HD

Fixed it, but the same applies that I mentioned.

hogmandon

Thank you for the replies. Glad I asked I didn't know about the 67s having a slow opening and cylinder fill. I knew about the 4 degree sprocket but forgot. CRS is getting worse. That is a very easy fix. This thing will spin the tires right off it if I whack it open in 1st and some times in 2nd.
I don't have a problem with pinging except if lugging which I try to avoid. Its just the heat when in the high 90s. I have Dons heads on it and think they are great. last time I had it apart Don recommended dishing the pistons but I had just put pistons and rings in and didn't want to take it all apart so I just went with a .040 HG. Will try the 4 degree sprocket.
Thanks again

hogmandon

November 17, 2019, 12:54:04 PM #6 Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 04:43:16 PM by hogmandon
Ohio I had read about the S&S HP103 but for some reason thought they were for the M8s

tdrglide

Awhile back I tried both the 590 and the 67 back to back on a 117 at about 10.8:1. At that compression you will lose a lot of bottom end. Mid range also with the 67. A whole lot. Tried advancing the 67 by 4 degrees,  did not help much. The 590 is at home 10.6 to 10.8:1. The 67 needs 11:1.
1.7 rockers on the intake helped the 67 a lot when I went to11:1+. all tuned with tmax

rhuff

You will hate it.

I had the A67 as the first cam in my 2003 RKC all bore 107.  I hated it.  The cam was recommended by the builder and BVBOB ended up tuning it but questioned the cam choice. I ended up questioning it too once riding it.   It just always seemed so soft despite static at 10.83-1  Of course, it came to life like a freight train at about 3500 RPM, but still.....by that time, 5500 to 6000 RPM comes quick.   Finally had Bob put the TMAN 590 in (CCP around 205) and the bike was night and day different and better.  Came on hard around 2200-2400 RPM and pulled just as hard or not harder to the Redline.

I believe the 67 only belongs in dyna's etc and obviously needs more than 10.8

harpwrench

November 19, 2019, 04:54:09 AM #9 Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 04:59:56 AM by harpwrench
I think it depends on how the pipe and heads work with it, only way to find out is to try them. I love the mackie 598 with similar timing events, I'm at 10.8ish. It's smooth down low with adequate torque, even with a huge pipe, sheet in the dyno section