Starting question for you guys

[misfitJason]

Bike info:
Custom built softail
V111 motor
Ultimate six speed trans
All balls 1.4kw starter
Automotive start button and starter solenoid button
Bdl open 3 inch primary


I have been having an issue with starting ever since I put the new motor in the bike. I thought it was my acr's not functioning but they seem un-related. When I hit the automotive start button or solenoid starter button the engine turns over and stalls for a second or two, then it will spin again.

The battery voltage drops to seven bolts when it does this.  And it does this regardless of the battery that's hooked up to it. I have tried three other batteries (2 new ones and a know good one out of my Dyna).  The voltage drop is the same with all of them. 

I pulled the stator rotor and checked for any type of binding on the engine case with negative results.

If it matters it does more of a stall cold rather than hot. My battery cables are in good condition and are the nice bendable terry components ones. Also I have a secondary ground cable going to the starter bolt, which didn't and doesn't make any difference.  Any ideas gentlemen?

[Burnout]

Spark timing is too early or quick not letting the starter get up to full speed.

Installing a VOES really helps this situation.
Another thing that helps is prohibiting the spark until the starter gets up to speed.

[Evo160K]

Perhaps some binding where the starter motor attaches to the engine?  Might loosen those fasteners, check that all is plumb, partially re-torque, turn-over starter then re-torque.

[misfitJason]

Spark timing is too early or quick not letting the starter get up to full speed.

Installing a VOES really helps this situation.
Another thing that helps is prohibiting the spark until the starter gets up to speed.

I am going to install a voes. I just went to a Dyna 2ki. Thanks

[Hillside Motorcycle]

You have verified ACR operation via testing them to a 12v power source?

[misfitJason]

You have verified ACR operation via testing them to a 12v power source?

I did and they don't work right and need to be replaced.  If I manually push them down the motor still stalls or slows when starting though

[misfitJason]

Spark timing is too early or quick not letting the starter get up to full speed.

Installing a VOES really helps this situation.
Another thing that helps is prohibiting the spark until the starter gets up to speed.

So dynatek recommended me set the timing at the tdc mark just leaving the left side of the window.  WOuld you recommend I move it further leaving the window or more directly into the window Burnout?

[turboprop]

Spark timing is too early or quick not letting the starter get up to full speed.

Installing a VOES really helps this situation.
Another thing that helps is prohibiting the spark until the starter gets up to speed.

So dynatek recommended me set the timing at the tdc mark just leaving the left side of the window.  WOuld you recommend I move it further leaving the window or more directly into the window Burnout?

I would recommend you use a dial back timing light and adjust the plate so that with the VOES lead from the module grounded and the curve set to the most aggressive setting,  that max spark occurs at 32 degrees. Should be all in by 3,200 RPM. Once set, reconnect the VOES lead and adjust the settings on the module. A dial-back light will be much more precise than 'at the end of the window'. Play around with that 32 degree number. It will be close.

[thumper 823]

I thought 9.6 volts in the drop was the magic number.

[PoorUB]

Minimum voltage while cranking is 10 volts on a 12 volt system.

[FSG]

what does battery voltage drop to with both plugs out and turning it over ?

could be the Starter itself poling internally

how old is the starter ?

[misfitJason]

 :koolaid:the starter is about eight months old.

When I remove the plugs and hit the starter she spins fine. This tells me probably it's an Acr issue or timing

[Burnout]

So dynatek recommended me set the timing at the tdc mark just leaving the left side of the window.  WOuld you recommend I move it further leaving the window or more directly into the window Burnout?

I'd recommend using a timing light, guessing is not an option, many do. But if you are having trouble you need to be sure so you are not chasing shadows. Big motors wont tolerate fudging, and if things are too far off they will eat themselves up quickly. As you have found it does not behave like a low comp 80"er.

Since you have a belt drive you can check the timing without getting all oily by marking the alternator rotor.

[rageglide]

The aftermarket ignitions stop firing below 9volts.  If the voltage is dropping too much the ACRs lose pull, if they are sticky it's a double whammy.   How about using manuals?

Definitely use a VOES because trying to starting with full advance is not helping.

[Pirsch Fire Wagon]

Fully Charge The Battery and let it sit for four to six hours.

Load Test the Battery and determine it's health - Replace if necessary. If it passes...

Perform a Voltage Drop Test - If the difference between the Battery and Load (Starter) is greater than 0.5 VDC you have a Amperage Delivery Issue. Wiring or Internal to the Starter.....

The two tests will eliminate (or confirm) the Starting System is operating as designed.

Perform a Cranking Compression Test. If it passes.....

Perform a Leak-Down Test - Note the Flywheel Timing Mark when Valves are CLOSED. There should be a timing Mark at 32* - 35* to ensure Timing is correct. If these tests pass......

Static Time the Engine and use the setting supplied with the Ignition Module to get it cranking. **Note the Timing Marks using a Dial-Back Timing Lamp and compare to the Ignition Module Specification Limitations.

Some other things to look for:

Ensure the ACR's have their OWN Circuit UNINTERRUPTED from the Motorcycles Circuits on both the LINE and LOW VOLTAGE Side of the Relay. Otherwise, when cranking, voltage will be interrupted not allowing the Releases to Operate.

If none of this points you to a specific cause - Time to tear into the Cam Chest.

[thumper 823]

Reading the Battery without plugs in will only give erroneous results.
If you have ACR you are getting the same erroneous results.
A Load test has to have a load.

[misfitJason]

 Timing was spot on as verified through the timing light. I did find the problem that I was hunting. I took a video showing the issue

https://youtu.be/F0giF3AX_Xg

[koko3052]

Glad you found it. I quess next time you'll do a compression test first?