custom built shovelhead cam with evo geometry

[waltcentral]

  I installed Velva Touch on the shovel I bought this year. I have no problems with the lifters and blocks but after a couple of different cams I am starting to realize that what may work well in the EVO may not be optimum in the Shovel.
  For all who may be so inclined  http://www.crazyhorsespeedshop.com/  will build you an original Sifton cam built with EVO geometry.  I talked with them about the old Sifton .440 and he indicated there a a .500 lift version.  Both cam be built to work with hydraulics.
  He recommends 9.0 - to one static compression. 

[Hillside Motorcycle]

So many tried and true actual Shovel cams out there.
The biggest problem encountered when looking for power at the Shovel level, lies solely within the cylinder head.
Only head worse is a mouse-maze OE Pan head.

[waltcentral]

So many tried and true actual Shovel cams out there.
The biggest problem encountered when looking for power at the Shovel level, lies solely within the cylinder head.
Only head worse is a mouse-maze OE Pan head.

The problem is Shovelhead cams will not work with the Velva Touch lifters and blocks.

[waltcentral]

So many tried and true actual Shovel cams out there.
The biggest problem encountered when looking for power at the Shovel level, lies solely within the cylinder head.
Only head worse is a mouse-maze OE Pan head.

If wish I knew about the shovel cam restrictions using the Velva Touch lifters even though they are great. I would follow your suggestions on a Andrews #2 cam. How does the #2 work with solids?

[Reddog74usa]

Shovelhead cams work very well with Velva Touch lifters. Here's a fresh set that just arrived from Dave at BMO. I assume you are referring to the Velvas set up for evo cams which is supposed to give you more options not less so I'm a bit confused at that statement. A nice option for you would be a EV-27 with the Velva evo set up for Shovels but you will have to do the rocker arm conversion to facilitate the evo oiling that is part of the advantage in going with the Velva/evo set up for Shovels. Dave has adds on ebay so you could just look him up or google it. Give him a call. He's great to talk to and can talk you through the options.

[Ohio HD]

You can run a Shovel cam with Evo lifters, the cam timing doesn't change due to the lifter roller diameter. What you get is a faster opening valve with the larger diameter Evo lifters. As long as you have Shovel rocker ratios, 1.5:1, run a Shovel cam.

[76shuvlinoff]

You can run a Shovel cam with Evo lifters, the cam timing doesn't change due to the lifter roller diameter. What you get is a faster opening valve with the larger diameter Evo lifters. As long as you have Shovel rocker ratios, 1.5:1, run a Shovel cam.

Interesting

The one time I talked to Dave he really tried to talk me into a complete Evo set. Really didn't want to talk about using shovel stuff. This was more then 5 years ago. Maybe he just didn't have shovel parts in stock.

  The day will come when I have to replace my Jims top end oiling parts, not really sure what I will do then. I don't want to revert back to stock shovel type oiling.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

So many tried and true actual Shovel cams out there.
The biggest problem encountered when looking for power at the Shovel level, lies solely within the cylinder head.
Only head worse is a mouse-maze OE Pan head.

If wish I knew about the shovel cam restrictions using the Velva Touch lifters even though they are great. I would follow your suggestions on a Andrews #2 cam. How does the #2 work with solids?

Never have used that cam under a solid lifter, but cannot think of a reason you couldn't.

[crock]

So many tried and true actual Shovel cams out there.
The biggest problem encountered when looking for power at the Shovel level, lies solely within the cylinder head.
Only head worse is a mouse-maze OE Pan head.

If wish I knew about the shovel cam restrictions using the Velva Touch lifters even though they are great. I would follow your suggestions on a Andrews #2 cam. How does the #2 work with solids?

Never have used that cam under a solid lifter, but cannot think of a reason you couldn't.

I've always wondered if that were true. I have been told that automotive solid lifter cams have a slight ramp ground in to take out the lash before lifting the valve

[wfolarry]

I've always wondered if that were true. I have been told that automotive solid lifter cams have a slight ramp ground in to take out the lash before lifting the valve

On a flat tappet cam the lash ramp may be different but a roller lifter is more forgiving.

[Ohio HD]

I've always wondered if that were true. I have been told that automotive solid lifter cams have a slight ramp ground in to take out the lash before lifting the valve

On a flat tappet cam the lash ramp may be different but a roller lifter is more forgiving.

From ages ago in the auto business, I do recall that there was a different ramp design for solids.

When Vern Ott developed the Velva Touch lifters he took away all of the misconception of performance HD roller cams needing to be solid lifters due to lift / profile, spring pressure. The limiting factor was Pan and Shovel hydraulic lifters that were not up to the task.

[JW113]

  The day will come when I have to replace my Jims top end oiling parts, not really sure what I will do then. I don't want to revert back to stock shovel type oiling.

What's wrong with the stock shovel oiling?


-JW

[76shuvlinoff]

  The day will come when I have to replace my Jims top end oiling parts, not really sure what I will do then. I don't want to revert back to stock shovel type oiling.

What's wrong with the stock shovel oiling?


-JW

1) Personal preference to get rid of the lines. I had a moment I didn't like them.
2) I ASSumed I was getting more oil faster with the evo type oiling. I have no data to back that up but it made me feel good.

  To go back to shovel oiling am I going to have to change the lifters pushrods and rockers back as well?

This particular mill is an S&S long block that was never set up with shovel oiling.  I put the Jims stuff in it from the get go.

[JW113]

OK, got it. Not suggesting to go back, but I'm not aware that there is anything the matter with the stock set up either. I kind of like the look, actually. On the other hand, it is a bit of a pain in the @$$ to get the two tubes installed correctly and not leak. I figure the whole point of the Evo setup was to save manufacturing time by not having to do that step, less parts, and less chance to leak. All valid reasons to be sure, but that does not mean the stock set up does not work if the installation is done correctly.

But what do I know???

SHOVELHEAD, damn it!!!
 

-JW

[crock]

  The day will come when I have to replace my Jims top end oiling parts, not really sure what I will do then. I don't want to revert back to stock shovel type oiling.

What's wrong with the stock shovel oiling?


-JW

1) Personal preference to get rid of the lines. I had a moment I didn't like them.
2) I ASSumed I was getting more oil faster with the evo type oiling. I have no data to back that up but it made me feel good.

  To go back to shovel oiling am I going to have to change the lifters pushrods and rockers back as well?

This particular mill is an S&S long block that was never set up with shovel oiling.  I put the Jims stuff in it from the get go.

OK, got it. Not suggesting to go back, but I'm not aware that there is anything the matter with the stock set up either. I kind of like the look, actually. On the other hand, it is a bit of a pain in the @$$ to get the two tubes installed correctly and not leak. I figure the whole point of the Evo setup was to save manufacturing time by not having to do that step, less parts, and less chance to leak. All valid reasons to be sure, but that does not mean the stock set up does not work if the installation is done correctly.

But what do I know???

SHOVELHEAD, damn it!!!
 

-JW

I was always worried about the head getting hot(er) oil AND agree that it is a pita to install so I went with this setup and never looked back. And I think it looks even cooler

https://www.amazon.com/OLD-STF-1966-1984-Shovelheads-Motorcycle-Chopper/dp/B01LZB81OV/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Harley+Shovel+head+oil+lines&qid=1575635994&sr=8-1-spell

[JW113]

I think they have some serious marketing going on with that ad:

"These lines will eliminate the problem of the "starving front head"

I don't believe for a second that the front head gets oil starved. Whether or not the oil is any hotter is debatable, but even if true I don't see it being a problem. If you have that kind of set up purely for the aesthetics, that's cool.

-JW

[Burnout]

FUD = fear uncertainty doubt

The only way the front cylinder could get oil starved is if the rear cylinder passage was plugged.
Or maybe there were no bushings left in the rear rockers, even then the front would get some oil.

Marketing BS and that alone is enough reason to not buy the product.
It also looks like it might get in the way of adjusting the valves.

Function over form rarely fails.
There were enough of those units made that the MoCo would have made a change if needed.

[76shuvlinoff]

There were enough of those units made that the MoCo would have made a change if needed.

.....and isn't change what they did when they went to the top end oiling system for the Evo?

[Burnout]

The EVO oiling change coincidentally came with the improved hydraulic lifters, it eliminated a bunch of fiddly parts to assemble which were also points of failure but mostly cheaper to manufacture. Easier to assemble and fewer parts.

[JW113]

Or, maybe the engineers at HD back in 1982 looked inside a 1955 Chevy V8 and said "hey guys, check this out!".



-JW