Brake Service - Simple Tool Tip

[Molly]

Servicing the brakes on my '08 RK and, as usual, had to look around for a way of getting the pistons to retract after I'd cleaned them. I keep my guitar gear in the garage and spied a capo on the bench. Worked a treat!

I don't know how to add pictures, sorry. Hope it's alright to provide these links. The other day I asked about sourcing a factory manual and the post was deleted so I'm guessing it's easy to offend here...

[Hossamania]

Good job using what you have. Never would have thought of that, mostly because I've never used one. Or a guitar.
I use a C-clamp to squeeze them back in.
Your post probably got deleted not because it offended (maybe...), but because it was posted in the wrong section.

[Coyote]

Pushing just one puck in could have the undesired action of pushing the other puck completely out.

I find it easiest to just use the old pads and push both pucks in at the same time using a LARGE flat blade screwdriver, inserted between the pads and twisted. ymmv

[Hossamania]

Pushing just one puck in could have the undesired action of pushing the other puck completely out.

I find it easiest to just use the old pads and push both pucks in at the same time using a LARGE flat blade screwdriver, inserted between the pads and twisted. ymmv

I've done that too. I should have mentioned, when I use the C-clamp, I use the old pad to push both pistons in at the same time.

[kd]

.... after making sure there is room in the master cylinder reservoir to accept the fluid that you are pushing back up the line.   

[FSG]

I pump them out against a paint stirrer for shoe-shine cleaning with a boot lace

same paint stirrer allows the twist/push/rotate action to get them back into position so that pads can be inserted and the caliper put back over the disc

[Molly]

Disappointingly, I still have brake binding issues. My rotors are out of spec I'm sure so that's not helping I expect.

When I bought the bike the seller had to fit new pads to get it through inspection. I figured he'd just done the job as fast as he could and that by forcing back the pistons without cleaning them he'd created a sticking / binding problem that resulted in a pair of nicely warped rotors. Maybe. Either way I don't want to fit new rotors if it doesn't cure the problem (expensive experiment).

Off out to the garage to take another look. I kind of enjoy this problem solving in a perverse sort of way. I guess most of us do. All part of getting to know the bike.

[Coyote]

They're easy enough to rebuild.

[klammer76]

I pump them out against a paint stirrer for shoe-shine cleaning with a boot lace

same paint stirrer allows the twist/push/rotate action to get them back into position so that pads can be inserted and the caliper put back over the disc

Same here.

[Rockout Rocker Products]

My experience with warped rotors is the opposite of binding... The rotors knock the pads back into the calipers as they spin. 

[kd]

 

[Rusticwater]

I've used stacked door shims to make an adjustable spacer or to pry things apart.

[attach=0]

[rbabos]

Simple tool and works good to shift v rod engine to replace the left engine mount.
Ron

[1workinman]

Disappointingly, I still have brake binding issues. My rotors are out of spec I'm sure so that's not helping I expect.

When I bought the bike the seller had to fit new pads to get it through inspection. I figured he'd just done the job as fast as he could and that by forcing back the pistons without cleaning them he'd created a sticking / binding problem that resulted in a pair of nicely warped rotors. Maybe. Either way I don't want to fit new rotors if it doesn't cure the problem (expensive experiment).

Off out to the garage to take another look. I kind of enjoy this problem solving in a perverse sort of way. I guess most of us do. All part of getting to know the bike.

I not a expert on motor cycles , I rebuilt brake calipers on heavy equipment , If the brakes are sticking I want to remove the calipers and see if I could install a rebuild kit , flush out old fluid . The warped rotor I want to replace it . On my Road Glide it has a after market wheel and there was a problem with the caliper not being center proper so I changed the spacers or really machined some to place the caliper in a better position not a big deal . Seems to work ok now

[motorhogman]

Pushing just one puck in could have the undesired action of pushing the other puck completely out.

I find it easiest to just use the old pads and push both pucks in at the same time using a LARGE flat blade screwdriver, inserted between the pads and twisted. ymmv

The only way I do it, 

[fbn ent]

I pump them out against a paint stirrer for shoe-shine cleaning with a boot lace

same paint stirrer allows the twist/push/rotate action to get them back into position so that pads can be inserted and the caliper put back over the disc

Same here.

   I assume this will work with any dual piston caliper? I'm going to try this next time......

[speedzter]

Disappointingly, I still have brake binding issues. My rotors are out of spec I'm sure so that's not helping I expect.
Off out to the garage to take another look. I kind of enjoy this problem solving in a perverse sort of way. I guess most of us do. All part of getting to know the bike.

Time to pull the calipers apart. The last set i did had some very hard residue on the pistons.
With 10 years on them, probably worth new seals anyway.
Not sure on the parts availability though.

[attach=0] 

[FSG]

Not sure on the parts availability though

visit your local KTM Bike shop, they use Brembos and have all the seals, o rings and pucks you need

[barny7655]

have you looked at the master on those brembos mine is 5/8th bore brembo, make sure the actuator pin on the lever is the right way around,and has free play,and right fluid used? some will debate this fluid issue ,i use easy bleed nipples ,then tie off handle over night , cheers

[Molly]

Thanks for your help and advice guys.

As I mentioned, the seller needed to get it through an inspection before I collected it. I've just pulled the pads again and they're:

GOLDfren KBA60878

Quick eBay and they seem to be pretty cheap pads. They come with backing plates to presumably reduce noise (by God, they were noisy though - not a hint of copper grease anywhere). Anybody know anything about this brand? Never heard of them.

I've pumped out each piston one by one and given them a thorough clean. It's late here now so I'll reassemble tomorrow. I'd just feel happier if the pads didn't drag so much on the rotors. Wondering if the extra space of the backing plates would make things unusually tight.

Will sleep on it.... Thanks again.

[Hossamania]

What kind of backing plates are you talking about? I've not used any, just the pad installed, no anti-squeal grease or stick-on pads.

[HarleyHiwayMan]

I'm with Coyote. I push the pucks in with the old pads, I thought everyone did.

[fbn ent]

What kind of backing plates are you talking about? I've not used any, just the pad installed, no anti-squeal grease or stick-on pads.

I have seen those plates Hoss. Mostly on metrics with stock pads.

Molly.....you can get silicone for anti rattle. I have not tried it but IIRC it is in some HD manuals. If the thickness of the plates is the issue the "glue" might be the answer....

[SE Road King]

Molly, Great workaround, I use cheats wherever possible. Check this one out:
I have two chisels from a snap-on, as part of a set I purchased back in the '70s that are tapered along their length. When I pair them up in opposite directions, insert them into the caliper and push them lightly together they compress all 4 pistons at once, and they do so in a very near parallel fashion. Anyway, I've been using them more often for this lately than actually chiseling on anything. LOL

PS. On the Factory manual thing, it most likely got pulled because of the myriad of workarounds that may have surfaced in response to your question. Internet shares of HD copyrighted documents will promote dishonesty. To be the best that HTT can be, they always want to be Lilly-White, when it comes to copyrighted materials. Which is a good thing when you see the amount of service information this forum is able to provide. (Always properly credited)
Bottom line, everyone knows where to get Official Harley Davidson Publications. It was not personal.

[Molly]

Disappointingly, I still have brake binding issues. My rotors are out of spec I'm sure so that's not helping I expect.
Off out to the garage to take another look. I kind of enjoy this problem solving in a perverse sort of way. I guess most of us do. All part of getting to know the bike.

Time to pull the calipers apart. The last set i did had some very hard residue on the pistons.
With 10 years on them, probably worth new seals anyway.
Not sure on the parts availability though.

[attach=0,msg1328222]

Bought a seal kit (Cycle Pro LLC 19258M) but struggling to get the pistons back in. It's incredibly tight and just binds-up. I've checked for a chamfer but there's no measurable difference. If I put them in one way or the other I reckon I can feel a lip on the inner edge as should be the case. I'm just lubing them with brake fluid but did see one YT video where the guy was using dielectric grease.

Any thoughts? Just fitted a brand new set of rotors and can't afford to have these brakes bind-up on them once they're assembled. Man, I've so many hours in this job now. You'd think it'd be straightforward.

Thanks in advance guys.

[barny7655]

if your careful you can suck them in using a brake sucker on the nipple, but you have two pistons , need two sets of hands, or press them in with a clamp and a piece of plate,  brake grease on calipher seals,not to much may help,a lot  forget to unscrew the bleeder nipple , never had trouble with this with genuine seals  KDM  , take your time and make sure the pistons are square

[hogpipes1]

.... after making sure there is room in the master cylinder reservoir to accept the fluid that you are pushing back up the line.   

Good time to change fluid and push all that dead crap out of the M-C .

[hogpipes1]

Disappointingly, I still have brake binding issues. My rotors are out of spec I'm sure so that's not helping I expect.
Off out to the garage to take another look. I kind of enjoy this problem solving in a perverse sort of way. I guess most of us do. All part of getting to know the bike.

Time to pull the calipers apart. The last set i did had some very hard residue on the pistons.
With 10 years on them, probably worth new seals anyway.
Not sure on the parts availability though.

[attach=0,msg1328222]

Bought a seal kit (Cycle Pro LLC 19258M) but struggling to get the pistons back in. It's incredibly tight and just binds-up. I've checked for a chamfer but there's no measurable difference. If I put them in one way or the other I reckon I can feel a lip on the inner edge as should be the case. I'm just lubing them with brake fluid but did see one YT video where the guy was using dielectric grease.

Any thoughts? Just fitted a brand new set of rotors and can't afford to have these brakes bind-up on them once they're assembled. Man, I've so many hours in this job now. You'd think it'd be straightforward.

Thanks in advance guys.

Put the pucks in the freezer for a while , might be enough to drop in.

[speedzter]

Bought a seal kit (Cycle Pro LLC 19258M) but struggling to get the pistons back in. It's incredibly tight and just binds-up. I've checked for a chamfer but there's no measurable difference. If I put them in one way or the other I reckon I can feel a lip on the inner edge as should be the case. I'm just lubing them with brake fluid but did see one YT video where the guy was using dielectric grease.

Any thoughts? Just fitted a brand new set of rotors and can't afford to have these brakes bind-up on them once they're assembled. Man, I've so many hours in this job now. You'd think it'd be straightforward.

Thanks in advance guys.

Have you tried using the old seals ?

[klammer76]

I had a bit of a struggle getting my pistons back in when I was doing a switch to 2008 Brembo calipers on my 2002 FLH. I Disassembled and cleaned them thoroughly to use dot 5.

I used very light smear of silglide around the seals and installed the pistons using a slight twisting motion. The key was having the piston straight to the bore and seals. Once you get one to go and get the feel the rest become easier.

I id not use brake fluid as the 2002 SM for the old style calipers I was removing stated not to use brake fluid. There are no instructions in the 2008 SM as to rebuilding the Brembo calipers. Guess they want you to buy new...Not.

[Molly]

never had trouble with this with genuine seals  KDM  , take your time and make sure the pistons are square

Thanks. Interestingly, these seals are available in the US for about $25 so they're pretty cheap (read, poor quality). Over here in NZ they cost me close to $120.... I dread to think what a quality set would cost.

Put the pucks in the freezer for a while , might be enough to drop in.

Nice idea but I'm still concerned that they shouldn't be so tight.

Have you tried using the old seals ?

I have them back in now in the hope that all that cleaning and a bit of dielectric grease would free them up a bit but they're still dragging.

I had a bit of a struggle getting my pistons back in when I was doing a switch to 2008 Brembo calipers on my 2002 FLH. I Disassembled and cleaned them thoroughly to use dot 5.

I used very light smear of silglide around the seals and installed the pistons using a slight twisting motion. The key was having the piston straight to the bore and seals. Once you get one to go and get the feel the rest become easier.

I id not use brake fluid as the 2002 SM for the old style calipers I was removing stated not to use brake fluid. There are no instructions in the 2008 SM as to rebuilding the Brembo calipers. Guess they want you to buy new...Not.

That's exactly what they expect you to do. Who throws away expensive calipers just because the seals need replacing?

Thanks for the advice though. I'd just be a bit concerned that if I did manage to get the pistons past these aftermarket seals that they'll still drag as they'd be incredibly tight.

Anyway, thanks so much for your advice guys. It's much appreciated.

[sfmichael]

if your careful you can suck them in using a brake sucker on the nipple, but you have two pistons , need two sets of hands, or press them in with a clamp and a piece of plate,  brake grease on calipher seals,not to much may help,a lot  forget to unscrew the bleeder nipple , never had trouble with this with genuine seals  KDM  , take your time and make sure the pistons are square

this sounds like a great idea if they're being stubborn 

[Molly]

if your careful you can suck them in using a brake sucker on the nipple, but you have two pistons , need two sets of hands, or press them in with a clamp and a piece of plate,  brake grease on calipher seals,not to much may help,a lot  forget to unscrew the bleeder nipple , never had trouble with this with genuine seals  KDM  , take your time and make sure the pistons are square

this sounds like a great idea if they're being stubborn 

Took it all apart again to give it another go. Not a chance.... The pistons are never going past those seals. I reckon the seal kit (Cycle Pro LLC 19258M) is garbage.

[klammer76]

Not sure on the parts availability though

visit your local KTM Bike shop, they use Brembos and have all the seals, o rings and pucks you need

FSG, do you by chance have any KTM part numbers for the seals, o rings and pucks or what KTM bike to use as a reference? Would like to record them for future reference.

Thanks

[Molly]

Not sure on the parts availability though

visit your local KTM Bike shop, they use Brembos and have all the seals, o rings and pucks you need

FSG, do you by chance have any KTM part numbers for the seals, o rings and pucks or what KTM bike to use as a reference? Would like to record them for future reference.

Thanks

That'd be great actually. I emailed a couple of KTM dealers but they said they couldn't help. You have to assume that the pistons and seals aren't specific to the H-D badged Brembo. The only other reference I could find was to a Honda part but, as is often the case with forums, I found further comments to say it was misinformation.

I've stripped my calipers down again and will go into Christchurch tomorrow to trawl the bike dealers and try to find a parts guy that can help.

[klammer76]

Not sure on the parts availability though

visit your local KTM Bike shop, they use Brembos and have all the seals, o rings and pucks you need

FSG, do you by chance have any KTM part numbers for the seals, o rings and pucks or what KTM bike to use as a reference? Would like to record them for future reference.

Thanks

That'd be great actually. I emailed a couple of KTM dealers but they said they couldn't help. You have to assume that the pistons and seals aren't specific to the H-D badged Brembo. The only other reference I could find was to a Honda part but, as is often the case with forums, I found further comments to say it was misinformation.

I've stripped my calipers down again and will go into Christchurch tomorrow to trawl the bike dealers and try to find a parts guy that can help.

As I mentioned, when I did mine they were difficult also. Lube the o rings lightly then the piston lightly. get as square as you can then use a slight twist action. I think I went clockwise while adding pressure.

[-deuced-]

Honda part numbers in this thread

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,109413.msg1304420.html#msg1304420

[speedzter]

The Honda part numbers listed are to suit late 80's 250cc bikes, likely Nissin calipers, interesting.