Author Topic: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions  (Read 5718 times)

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Offline cheech

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #225 on: March 25, 2020, 12:08:15 PM »
And if you're really worried, put a dab of silicone around the end of the hose when installed. It's pretty low pressure, so you shouldn't have any problems, just don't overclamp it and break a plastic barb if present. I often just twist some wire on small vacuum hoses as a clamp instead of an actual clamp.
LOL, albeit unless a intake backfire. It's under vacuum, which is a absence of pressure. Which would help the hose stay on.
But you know that. Your fingers didn't at the time maybe.  :teeth:
And FWIW, I don't think there are any clamps on it originally.

Offline SixShooter14

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #226 on: March 25, 2020, 12:12:58 PM »
And if you're really worried, put a dab of silicone around the end of the hose when installed. It's pretty low pressure, so you shouldn't have any problems, just don't overclamp it and break a plastic barb if present. I often just twist some wire on small vacuum hoses as a clamp instead of an actual clamp.
LOL, albeit unless a intake backfire. It's under vacuum, which is a absence of pressure. Which would help the hose stay on.
But you know that. Your fingers didn't at the time maybe.  :teeth:
And FWIW, I don't think there are any clamps on it originally.
maybe he meant 'negative' pressure?

And technically, the atm is putting pressure on the outside. So......

But yeah, the clamps are only there to keep the slightly larger id hose from slipping off the barbs.
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, Mikuni carb

Offline JW113

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #227 on: March 25, 2020, 05:07:05 PM »
Not just keep the hose on, but to keep the motor from pulling air, i.e. vacuum leak.

And yes, low pressure. Atmosphere is ~15psi at sea level. Pressure inside the intake manifold at anything but full throttle is less than that, but never reaches zero psi.

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Offline cheech

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #228 on: March 25, 2020, 06:12:51 PM »
Not just keep the hose on, but to keep the motor from pulling air, i.e. vacuum leak.

And yes, low pressure. Atmosphere is ~15psi at sea level. Pressure inside the intake manifold at anything but full throttle is less than that, but never reaches zero psi.

-JW
:kick: Yes, thanks for the correction. Its not a full vacuum. Less than atmospheric.

Offline SixShooter14

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #229 on: March 25, 2020, 10:45:58 PM »
Alrighty folks.......only remaining thing is to unhook the tender and put the seat on, and check tire pressures.


Anything critical I should 100% triple check before I fire it up tomorrow? I have turned the engine by hand a couple times with no bangs or hangups. Fluids are good, throttle operates, clutch operates, choke operates, lights light when the key is on.

Regarding the VOES, I attached the vac line and clamps and plugged in the plug that goes back to the ignition module. Anything else needed for that?
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, Mikuni carb

Online Hossamania

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #230 on: March 26, 2020, 04:12:11 AM »
Double check your fuel line and routing. Look around for any spare parts laying around that should be on the bike (done a couple times now, I'm sure!). Make sure no fasteners were left loose that you were going to "get to in a minute," Wipe down the exhaust. Lube your kickstand. (Just one of my procedures any time I've got the bike up.) Control your heartbeat and fire it up. Check the oil light that it is off. Check for fuel leaks. Listen for odd noises. Do not rev it up. Do a fist pump, and congratulate yourself!
After riding, check exhaust fasteners.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 04:16:13 AM by Hossamania »
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Offline kd

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #231 on: March 26, 2020, 06:52:42 AM »
You never said what you are using for start-up oil or if you plan to change it after heat cycles (cool to well warmed up) and a 50 mile shakedown period.  (kinda what I would do)  I use a 15-40 Shell Rotella T for 3 - 4 heat cycles and drain.  Install a 15-40 fresh oil (no filter change) and do 50 miles driving normal with a couple of stops long enough to completely cool down.  The first 50 miles are varied rpm with accel and decel.  I listen and look over when staring cold and before shutting off hot. I then change oil and filter to what I will use. I use Syn LiquiMoly 10-60 so the first 200 miles will actually be a 20-50 dino oil.  After 200 miles it's oil and filter to my syn oil and ride.
KD

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #232 on: March 26, 2020, 06:58:34 AM »
I actually use 10w30 or 5w30 dino oil. It's not going to be in there very long, and it gets through the motor fast as it's thin. Heat cycles shouldn't get the motor more than moderately worm.

Dump it, use a cheaper or your regular oil for 50 miles, change again. Back to normal.
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Offline SixShooter14

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #233 on: March 26, 2020, 07:04:41 AM »
I'll start with Pennzoil 10w-40 then change it to Valvoline 20w-50
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Offline SixShooter14

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #234 on: March 26, 2020, 10:00:01 AM »
I did rub some 20w50 on the cylinders and piston/rings when installing. As well as assy lube on the cam lobes and gear and on the breather, pushrods, lifters, rockers, valves, wrist pins, etc.


Fixing to head out to fire it up. I'll let yall know how it goes.
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, Mikuni carb

Offline Racepres

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #235 on: March 26, 2020, 10:16:24 AM »
I did rub some 20w50 on the cylinders and piston/rings when installing. As well as assy lube on the cam lobes and gear and on the breather, pushrods, lifters, rockers, valves, wrist pins, etc.


Fixing to head out to fire it up. I'll let yall know how it goes.
Rings are supposed to be assembled dry!!!! Only the skirts get oiled some small bit... far as I was Taught..
and you did of course scrub the hell out of those cylinders with very hot soapy water??? right??

Offline SixShooter14

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #236 on: March 26, 2020, 10:29:14 AM »
I did rub some 20w50 on the cylinders and piston/rings when installing. As well as assy lube on the cam lobes and gear and on the breather, pushrods, lifters, rockers, valves, wrist pins, etc.


Fixing to head out to fire it up. I'll let yall know how it goes.
Rings are supposed to be assembled dry!!!! Only the skirts get oiled some small bit... far as I was Taught..
and you did of course scrub the hell out of those cylinders with very hot soapy water??? right??
You are correct, the oil went on the piston below the rings. But I did it after the rings were on, so they were a bit oily. And yep, the cylinders were scrubbed well with alcohol and soapy water until the towel came out whiter than it went in.
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, Mikuni carb

Offline SixShooter14

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #237 on: March 26, 2020, 10:39:27 AM »
First start went well. Just a little smoke from around the exhaust header pipes for about 10 seconds. But it wasn't being puffed out and I didn't feel any air movement. I did use the enrichener for the first 30ish seconds, then it idled nice and smooth on it's own. There's no tach, but it sounds like it's at 900ish rpm based on other bikes I've listened to. But I can't be sure the idle speed.

No bangs or smoke out the mufflers, so that's good, right?
I ran it a good minute-ish now it's cooling off and I'll start again and go for a short ride....


Should I drain the oil now, while it's hot/warm?
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, Mikuni carb

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Offline SixShooter14

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #239 on: March 26, 2020, 10:46:38 AM »
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Offline kd

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #240 on: March 26, 2020, 10:52:44 AM »
Six, this is not the time to be impatient.  I personally would do at least 2 more heat cycles. Heat cycles get the rings familiar with the change in the cylinders as the heat up and I think that's important.  Put fans on it (from a distance) and it will cool nice and even. After the 3 heat cycles you can chose to dump the oil or make heat cycle #4 a ride around the block sort of thing,  Your heat cycles would not have actually brought the heat up to operating temp but #4 will.  I wouldn't be shy about dumping the oil when you get back from heat cycle # 4 with the engine now hot. Listen to the engine before you shut it off because it is now up to temp.  Do a real good inspection. Refill the oil and that will be for your next 200 miles.  Next change is oil and filter and in the wind.  :up: :up:

Added later

What I posted is somewhat what Ohio included in his comment.  It better explains the reasons for taking the time after the first fire.  Oil is cheap for this type of break in purpose.
KD

Offline SixShooter14

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #241 on: March 26, 2020, 10:58:40 AM »
In case anyone is interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XGYg3TnxwI

There was some guy running a pressure washer outside, so the audio isn't great.
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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #242 on: March 26, 2020, 11:01:06 AM »
This always works for me.


https://www.sscycle.com/tech-info/tech-tips/new-engine-installation
so you wait until after the first 50 to change?

After I make six heat cycles, I dump the thin oil. Then I replace it with what ever I will use. Then I change it again in 50 miles. A new filter at each change.

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,111382.msg1339026.html#msg1339026

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Offline SixShooter14

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #243 on: March 26, 2020, 11:01:42 AM »
This always works for me.


https://www.sscycle.com/tech-info/tech-tips/new-engine-installation
so you wait until after the first 50 to change?

After I make six heat cycles, I dump the thin oil. Then I replace it with what ever I will use. Then I change it again in 50 miles. A new filter at each change.

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,111382.msg1339026.html#msg1339026
10-4
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Offline kd

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #244 on: March 26, 2020, 11:15:09 AM »
 :agree:  Good practice.  That's actually what I did with my 120 last time.
KD

Offline Pete_Vit

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #245 on: March 26, 2020, 12:45:49 PM »
Six, this is not the time to be impatient.  I personally would do at least 2 more heat cycles. Heat cycles get the rings familiar with the change in the cylinders as the heat up and I think that's important.  Put fans on it (from a distance) and it will cool nice and even. After the 3 heat cycles you can chose to dump the oil or make heat cycle #4 a ride around the block sort of thing,  Your heat cycles would not have actually brought the heat up to operating temp but #4 will.  I wouldn't be shy about dumping the oil when you get back from heat cycle # 4 with the engine now hot. Listen to the engine before you shut it off because it is now up to temp.  Do a real good inspection. Refill the oil and that will be for your next 200 miles.  Next change is oil and filter and in the wind.  :up: :up:

Added later

What I posted is somewhat what Ohio included in his comment.  It better explains the reasons for taking the time after the first fire.  Oil is cheap for this type of break in purpose.
:teeth: :up:
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Offline twincamzz

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #246 on: March 26, 2020, 02:16:10 PM »
Your motorcycle sounds good & healthy to me Six !!   :chop:



* Millwright approved !!
not all who wander are lost...

Offline SixShooter14

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #247 on: March 26, 2020, 02:18:41 PM »
Your motorcycle sounds good & healthy to me Six !!   :chop:



* not a HD tech...just another Millwright !
:doh: Oh lord, a Millwright   :emoGroan:

 :hyst:  :pop: HAHA, thanks....I work with a dozen Millwrights that love nothing more than poking fun at us engineers, well they love beer too.  :beer:
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, Mikuni carb

Offline twincamzz

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #248 on: March 26, 2020, 03:02:31 PM »
Your motorcycle sounds good & healthy to me Six !!   :chop:



* not a HD tech...just another Millwright !
:doh: Oh lord, a Millwright   :emoGroan:

 :hyst:  :pop: HAHA, thanks....I work with a dozen Millwrights that love nothing more than poking fun at us engineers, well they love beer too.  :beer:

Consider that an even bigger compliment then... not bad for an engineer  !!   :SM:
not all who wander are lost...

Offline SixShooter14

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Re: Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions
« Reply #249 on: March 26, 2020, 07:09:59 PM »
welp, did 5 heat cycles and a 2 mile ride around the loop. Steady acceleration up to 60mph (1, 2, 3, 4) then back down to 20mph turn around and repeat. Just changed the oil and filter. Will get out tomorrow and put some more miles on it around the farm roads where I can work up and down through the gears without traffic being around. Then I'll check all the fasteners and if I can get another filter, I'll change the fluids again at the end of the day.


Only issue was some oil mist during the 2nd warm up around the rear pushrod tubes. Intake was bubbling around the top and ex was bubbling around the middle.... Pulled the clips off and wiggled/jiggled the tubes and made sure the Orings were there and weren't cut/chewed. Put the clips back on and had no more trouble, hopefully it's fixed. Did make a mess though, was spurting oil on the rear cylinder and header pipe. I cleaned it up, so any more should be noticeable.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 07:20:37 PM by SixShooter14 »
'97 Road King, Rinehart True Dual, Mikuni carb