Crazy idea? Routing Oil Lines on bottom breather

[Mark222]

Ok, this happens when I have too much time on my hands, right?

I have an old bottom breathing 1985 EVO that like many, occasionally after a period of sitting will leak oil past the check ball and into the case.  (And yes, I have removed, cleaned, inspected ball and spring, even "tapped" the ball lightly while seated over the years with little success.) While not harmful, when it happens we all know it does tend to make a mess on startup as the crank vent is still routed to the Air Cleaner backing plate.

I know the reason for this routing was EPA related, but why would we not just "T" this "vent to atmosphere line" into the oil tank vent line thus closing the loop and allowing the puking oil to recirculate back until properly scavenged and sent back to the tank?   

I am sure there are reasons, just don't know what would happen, and don't usually experiment on things I don't want to find out the hard way...   

And I know, just riding her more often solves the problem too.

Mark

[Racepres]

^^ Bad idea to use the oil tank vent for anything else.. While I feel that the routing into the aircleaner is a benefit to evacuating crankcase pressure... it is offset by contaminating the intake Charge...
just run the hose out to the ground and be done!!!!!
I even do that with head breathers!!!

[Mule]

 I have a buddy that has a 1968 Triumph chopper that constantly spewed massive amounts of oil out of the crankcase breather hose. Nothing is stock with the oil tank and plumbing. he wanted me to work on it for him ,install an electronic ignition, rebuild the carbs ,replace and relocate the coils etc and fix whatever I found. I decided to change the oil pump with a new one from the original manufacturer, it made no difference. I started looking at original oil line routing for that year of Triumphs and discovered that the crankcase breather hose was routed back to the oil tank and the oil tank vent had a hose routed to the back of the rear fender. I drilled the oil filler cap and installed an elbow fitting in it and attached the breather hose to it. Then the oil vent from the tank at the bottom of the tank I attached a piece of hose and routed it to the ground just below the frame rails. That's been several years ago now ,it still spews oil out of the breather hose, but now the oil is returned to the tank and the air from the crankcase is expelled through the oil tank vent.  My buddy rides it hard at times and thanks me every time I see him. Really it was just a grasping at straw thing because nothing else worked.

[Ohio HD]

Never been a fan off whacking on the ball check seat. Use a push rod end and valve lapping compound to refinish the seat, then use a new ball and spring. Also make sure to do this with pump off the bike.


https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=53006.msg558966#msg558966

[Racepres]

Note that on a Vintage trumpet the return oil line is also restricted at the tank to lube the top end... if done correctly...
I would Not tap into the oil tank Vent with pressure [crankcase vent] on any Harley!!! period!!!
But... Hell try it... maybe it will work for you!!!!!

[Mule]

Yeah the harley oil tank isn't vented to atmosphere like the Triumph chopper oil tank. The welded on cap in the pic covers the vent line which is above the oil level  and that vent pipe is the one directly below at the bottom of the tank.

[JW113]

Mark, there is "air" coming out the crankcase vent, from cylinder blow by. If you T that line into the oil tank line, the system will be completely closed, with no vent to atmosphere. It will not be long before the oil tank plug goes flying off.

As Racepres says, just route the vent hose down below the frame to the ground. If you are not going to bite the bullet and get a new oil pump or rework the stock one, just put an oil pan below the bike if it's been sitting a while and catch what has wet sumped.

-JW

[Hossamania]

I've heard that after it happens a couple times, putting a pan under it becomes sop. Much like my parking procedure after a ride on mine.
It's not as had as it looks, that's about a month of riding, maybe 1-2 oz. of tranny oil, but it looks like catastrophic failure.

[attach=0,msg1331413]

[david lee]

just ride more

[rigidthumper]

You've had all winter to replace that SS seal 

[Hossamania]

You've had all winter to replace that SS seal 

I've had about 5 years or more to replace it. It's on my list...
I actually think it's going in this month. (I know my limitations)
I am not meaning to hijack this thread. I will continue in another. I was just commenting on the procedures we use to deal with issues, rather than do a proper fix.

[capn]

When I bought my current shovel it was plumbed like that.Case breather to vent line.The guy had also welded in another fitting on top of oil tank for vent. The first thing I did was put a new S&S pump on it.

[Mark222]

Yeah, thanks all, if it was just that easy we would have all done that years ago.

An JW, I got to thinking that after I posted, looking at diagrams and seeing then the entire system would be minus a vent.

Mark

[hogpipes1]

I have a buddy that has a 1968 Triumph chopper that constantly spewed massive amounts of oil out of the crankcase breather hose. Nothing is stock with the oil tank and plumbing. he wanted me to work on it for him ,install an electronic ignition, rebuild the carbs ,replace and relocate the coils etc and fix whatever I found. I decided to change the oil pump with a new one from the original manufacturer, it made no difference. I started looking at original oil line routing for that year of Triumphs and discovered that the crankcase breather hose was routed back to the oil tank and the oil tank vent had a hose routed to the back of the rear fender. I drilled the oil filler cap and installed an elbow fitting in it and attached the breather hose to it. Then the oil vent from the tank at the bottom of the tank I attached a piece of hose and routed it to the ground just below the frame rails. That's been several years ago now ,it still spews oil out of the breather hose, but now the oil is returned to the tank and the air from the crankcase is expelled through the oil tank vent.  My buddy rides it hard at times and thanks me every time I see him. Really it was just a grasping at straw thing because nothing else worked.

Run the vent line going to grd. close enough to the frt chain sprocket. free chain oiler.

[hogpipes1]

Ok, this happens when I have too much time on my hands, right?

I have an old bottom breathing 1985 EVO that like many, occasionally after a period of sitting will leak oil past the check ball and into the case.  (And yes, I have removed, cleaned, inspected ball and spring, even "tapped" the ball lightly while seated over the years with little success.) While not harmful, when it happens we all know it does tend to make a mess on startup as the crank vent is still routed to the Air Cleaner backing plate.

I know the reason for this routing was EPA related, but why would we not just "T" this "vent to atmosphere line" into the oil tank vent line thus closing the loop and allowing the puking oil to recirculate back until properly scavenged and sent back to the tank?   

I am sure there are reasons, just don't know what would happen, and don't usually experiment on things I don't want to find out the hard way...   

And I know, just riding her more often solves the problem too.

Mark

I have a buddy that has a 1968 Triumph chopper that constantly spewed massive amounts of oil out of the crankcase breather hose. Nothing is stock with the oil tank and plumbing. he wanted me to work on it for him ,install an electronic ignition, rebuild the carbs ,replace and relocate the coils etc and fix whatever I found. I decided to change the oil pump with a new one from the original manufacturer, it made no difference. I started looking at original oil line routing for that year of Triumphs and discovered that the crankcase breather hose was routed back to the oil tank and the oil tank vent had a hose routed to the back of the rear fender. I drilled the oil filler cap and installed an elbow fitting in it and attached the breather hose to it. Then the oil vent from the tank at the bottom of the tank I attached a piece of hose and routed it to the ground just below the frame rails. That's been several years ago now ,it still spews oil out of the breather hose, but now the oil is returned to the tank and the air from the crankcase is expelled through the oil tank vent.  My buddy rides it hard at times and thanks me every time I see him. Really it was just a grasping at straw thing because nothing else worked.

Run the vent line going to grd. close enough to the frt chain sprocket. free chain oiler.

Same issue with my 85, i have a  small K&N  breather at the end of the line up high near the tank /side cover. so the line is about 1 ft  higher then the  bottom case fitting. Keeps from spitting out  , Return side of pump picks up what drains back into eng.   Winter put away i drain hot oil and  don't fill until 1st start up in spring. No oil  to drain down  from tank all winter .  Short term you could also pinch off the tank feed line  to the pump with vise grips and a couple pieces of wood paint stick  on each side of line. Forget this trick if your oil line is old and briddle. These simple fix work for me everytime .

[kd]

I have a buddy that has a 1968 Triumph chopper that constantly spewed massive amounts of oil out of the crankcase breather hose. Nothing is stock with the oil tank and plumbing. he wanted me to work on it for him ,install an electronic ignition, rebuild the carbs ,replace and relocate the coils etc and fix whatever I found. I decided to change the oil pump with a new one from the original manufacturer, it made no difference. I started looking at original oil line routing for that year of Triumphs and discovered that the crankcase breather hose was routed back to the oil tank and the oil tank vent had a hose routed to the back of the rear fender. I drilled the oil filler cap and installed an elbow fitting in it and attached the breather hose to it. Then the oil vent from the tank at the bottom of the tank I attached a piece of hose and routed it to the ground just below the frame rails. That's been several years ago now ,it still spews oil out of the breather hose, but now the oil is returned to the tank and the air from the crankcase is expelled through the oil tank vent.  My buddy rides it hard at times and thanks me every time I see him. Really it was just a grasping at straw thing because nothing else worked.

Run the vent line going to grd. close enough to the frt chain sprocket. free chain oiler.

This work's great. I never used a chain oiler on a shovel or pan case.  The vent line mist was perfect with no dripping, dirt build-up or cast off when running down the road.

[Burnout]

I've heard that after it happens a couple times, putting a pan under it becomes sop. Much like my parking procedure after a ride on mine.
It's not as had as it looks, that's about a month of riding, maybe 1-2 oz. of tranny oil, but it looks like catastrophic failure.

[attach=0,msg1331413]

If that is trany juice maybe your pulley is trying to fall off?

[Hossamania]

When parked after a ride, it leaves a spot about the size of a 50¢ piece, it just looks really bad on that cardboard because that is a good month of rides or more (probably 20 or 30 rides, maybe more) and the cardboard has a waxy finish to it, so it tends to run rather than soak in. It uses about 2 ounces in that time. But I do realize it needs a bit of attention.
If the pulley is trying to fall off and run away, it would not surprise me. I pound on it pretty hard.

[MikeL]

How bout putting a manual shut off valve on the feed line to the pump. Turn on the fuel turn on the oil.
I had an 86 electra glide that would puke oil out the breather all the time when started Did all the fixes except replacing the pump too much $$$$ Worked good just don't forget to turn the valve on..........


                                                                                                MIKE

[Hossamania]

How bout putting a manual shut off valve on the feed line to the pump. Turn on the fuel turn on the oil.
I had an 86 electra glide that would puke oil out the breather all the time when started Did all the fixes except replacing the pump too much $$$$ Worked good just don't forget to turn the valve on..........


                                                                                                MIKE

Sometimes I forget to turn the fuel on, even after 25 years of doing it. I would rather not forget to turn the oil on too, a much more dire consequence.

[Burnout]

That is why you should have a working oil pressure LIGHT.

[Mark222]

Thanks to all......

I have decided to take the initial approach based on Occam's Razor.

I ordered a new HD OEM Ball and Spring for $11.00, may this be the simple yet effective and appropriate fix.

I have had this bike since nearly new, and this is not the first Evo I have had to exhibit this trait.

And it seems to be worse since I ride this bike less, and it is now also older with a ton of miles.

And I don't really want to pull the oil pump at this time, so I will start with the simple things first and see what happens.

Mark

[david lee]

How bout putting a manual shut off valve on the feed line to the pump. Turn on the fuel turn on the oil.
I had an 86 electra glide that would puke oil out the breather all the time when started Did all the fixes except replacing the pump too much $$$$ Worked good just don't forget to turn the valve on..........


                                                                                                MIKE

someone said attach the ign key to the tap

[Lakerat]

How bout putting a manual shut off valve on the feed line to the pump. Turn on the fuel turn on the oil.
I had an 86 electra glide that would puke oil out the breather all the time when started Did all the fixes except replacing the pump too much $$$$ Worked good just don't forget to turn the valve on..........


                                                                                                MIKE

someone said attach the ign key to the tap

That may have been me who said that....works like a charm. New spring and ball didn't help a bit and pulling the oil pump compared to the inconvenience of a clamp isn't worth it to me at this time.

[JW113]

OK, so put a barb on your vent line. If the bike has sat for a while, push an extension hose on the barb, put the other end in the oil tank fill, fire the bike and let it run for a while. Shut off, remove extension, go.

Fixed!

-JW