103 cams - again

[Finn]

So,

I'm doing a mild "waking-up" of the Heritage before summer consisting of Supermeg 2-1, air cleaner if needed, mild cam with new lifters and custom mapping with Power Vision.

My first choice of cams is/was Cycle-Rama CR 570-2 but unfortunately they are backordered until mid- March or so. This means I need to come up with an alternative from my very short list - shop will be fully booked in April.

If I go to Fuel Moto site and have a look at the TC cam shoot-out results it looks to me that most of the cams are within a couple of hp/tq from each other.

https://university.fuelmotousa.com/article/h-d-twin-cam-103-camshaft-shootout/

[attach=0,msg1334208]

Layman's question is: Would I even feel difference between say CR 570-2 and Andrews 48 and Feuling 525?

Their numbers are quite same but curves are slightly different.

[IronButt70]

So,

I'm doing a mild "waking-up" of the Heritage before summer consisting of Supermeg 2-1, air cleaner if needed, mild cam with new lifters and custom mapping with Power Vision.

My first choice of cams is/was Cycle-Rama CR 570-2 but unfortunately they are backordered until mid- March or so. This means I need to come up with an alternative from my very short list - shop will be fully booked in April.

If I go to Fuel Moto site and have a look at the TC cam shoot-out results it looks to me that most of the cams are within a couple of hp/tq from each other.

https://university.fuelmotousa.com/article/h-d-twin-cam-103-camshaft-shootout/

[attach=0,msg1334208]

Layman's question is: Would I even feel difference between say CR 570-2 and Andrews 48 and Feuling 525?

Their numbers are quite same but curves are slightly different.

Don't see the TTS100 cam listed but I love it in my 2017 FLSTC.

[shindig]

Someone with much more knowledge than I will reply with a good choice or two.  But according to your post you should pick a cam that will best suit your ridding style.  Peak numbers are meaningless in this example.  If you ride from say 1500rpm to 4000 rpm you want a cam that works best in that range.  If you ride from 3000rpm to 6000rpm you want a cam that works best in that range.  And so on...  Also road manners, compression, ccp, etc all needs to be taken into account... 

[PoorUB]

 
I ran Andrews 48 and didn't care for them on the other hand I have run Andrews 57 and liked them.

[dirty jim]

Don't have any experience with these cams, but FUEL MOTO did a dyno shoot out using these and many more cams. Check out their web page.

[SB107]

I took all of the dyno sheets from the Fuel Moto study, used a plot digitizer on the sheets to extract data, put them in excel, and analyzed them. (Yes I spent way too much time on it)

Here are the results. The Max Tq is the maximum of the run, the Max Low, Mid, and top are averages from 2000-3500 RPM, 3000-5000 RPM, and 4500-6000 RPM. The max average torque is the average tq of the entire run.

[bigfoot5x]

To answer your question: No. The cams are all very similar and there is not enough variation in the numbers to notice the difference when you are riding. You will definitely feel a difference between the stock cam and one of these. That I could easily tell when I did the same thing to my Harley, but I doubt you could tell the difference within that assortment of cams. They are all popular cams so I doubt you can go wrong.

[Coff 06]

I realize that these are all "bolt in cams",but some of the cams shown with added lift will need a little more compression than stock to keep from being lazy on the bottom end.JMO.     Coff 06

[PoorUB]

True enough. I really liked the Andrews 57 at close to 10.5-1 compression!

[92flhtcu]

that S&S MR103 is a very decent cam with a 2:1 and stock heads, we use a lot of them here at the shop

[SB107]

The 48H and CR570-2 are almost identical in terms of tq curve, the Fueling 525 seems to be the under-performer...

[Finn]

I took all of the dyno sheets from the Fuel Moto study, used a plot digitizer on the sheets to extract data, put them in excel, and analyzed them. (Yes I spent way too much time on it)

Would you have energy left to do the same for hp figures? 
Differences between cams probably would look about the same as with tq figures.

[Finn]

The 48H and CR570-2 are almost identical in terms of tq curve, the Fueling 525 seems to be the under-performer...

For a layman like me it is interesting to see that even if there are 'several ways to skin a cat' the results are quite close to each other.

[SB107]

I took all of the dyno sheets from the Fuel Moto study, used a plot digitizer on the sheets to extract data, put them in excel, and analyzed them. (Yes I spent way too much time on it)

Would you have energy left to do the same for hp figures? 
Differences between cams probably would look about the same as with tq figures.

If the tq curve is the same then the hp curve would be the same. I just did tq for the sake of comparing where the cams put the "fun factor". 


I can compare other cams though any interest in seeing some other comparisons? its as simple as creating the graph in excel, as i already have all data i need.

[Finn]

I myself would be mostly interested to see CR570-2 and Andrews 48 difference.

This is because CR570-2 is backordered for 4 weeks and I need a very good Plan B.

[Boe Cole]

i've been happy with the MR103's, with Kuryakyn Mellows, A/C and TTS Tune here in Mountainous East Tennessee - home of the Dragon.

[SB107]

48H vs 570-2 vs TW-222

Threw in the triple 2 as another option with a similar curve (bit more hp)

[Finn]

Differences are, as was mentioned, more or less marginal. One should/would be quite happy with any of those cams.

Thank you! 

[Boe Cole]

The real question is why doesn't the moco put in higher cams in the first place.  EPA or aftermarket sales???

[PoorUB]

Makes you wonder! Pretty sure it is EPA.

But then I go buy a 1200CC BMW opposed twin that will run circles around a 1800 cc Harley. 2/3rds the engine and more performance stock out of the box.

[rigidthumper]

Makes you wonder! Pretty sure it is EPA.

But then I go buy a 1200CC BMW opposed twin that will run circles around a 1800 cc Harley. 2/3rds the engine and more performance stock out of the box.

FLHXSE  makes 110 TQ and 80 HP, and weighs 867 pounds.
The R1200RT makes 80 TQ and 110 HP, and weighs 600 pounds.
I think it's a throwback to the old days where weight was considered "more stable"

[PoorUB]

I bet it would  walk away from Stock Softail too. My point was the Harley engine is 1 1/2 times the size and the RT out performs it.
Goes back to the question. is it tuned for the EPA, or to sell hop up parts.

[Appowner]

Some years ago I had my 08 FXSTC built to a 103 with Red Shift 525.  My main complaint was the constant shifting I did during my 25 mile commute to/from work.  Speeds varied from 15 to 65 during the entire drive. 

So I told my mechanic to make it a stump puller.  The bump to 103 and the 525's did just that.  And my need to shift all the time was dramatically reduced.

They did what I wanted done.  Still have the bike, it's still a 103 with the 525s in it.

[Finn]

TW-222 was recommended to me and it seems very popular and produces good numbers - as do many other cams.

Do the TW-222 tend to be noisy?

[rhuff]

TW-222 was recommended to me and it seems very popular and produces good numbers - as do many other cams.

Do the TW-222 tend to be noisy?

Noisier than the Andrews 48.  And you don't pay the Woods tax.  Save money.  As good or better than the 222.  The 48 in a 103 is great.