103 cams - again

[Finn]

So,

I'm doing a mild "waking-up" of the Heritage before summer consisting of Supermeg 2-1, air cleaner if needed, mild cam with new lifters and custom mapping with Power Vision.

My first choice of cams is/was Cycle-Rama CR 570-2 but unfortunately they are backordered until mid- March or so. This means I need to come up with an alternative from my very short list - shop will be fully booked in April.

If I go to Fuel Moto site and have a look at the TC cam shoot-out results it looks to me that most of the cams are within a couple of hp/tq from each other.

https://university.fuelmotousa.com/article/h-d-twin-cam-103-camshaft-shootout/

[attach=0,msg1334208]

Layman's question is: Would I even feel difference between say CR 570-2 and Andrews 48 and Feuling 525?

Their numbers are quite same but curves are slightly different.

[IronButt70]

So,

I'm doing a mild "waking-up" of the Heritage before summer consisting of Supermeg 2-1, air cleaner if needed, mild cam with new lifters and custom mapping with Power Vision.

My first choice of cams is/was Cycle-Rama CR 570-2 but unfortunately they are backordered until mid- March or so. This means I need to come up with an alternative from my very short list - shop will be fully booked in April.

If I go to Fuel Moto site and have a look at the TC cam shoot-out results it looks to me that most of the cams are within a couple of hp/tq from each other.

https://university.fuelmotousa.com/article/h-d-twin-cam-103-camshaft-shootout/

[attach=0,msg1334208]

Layman's question is: Would I even feel difference between say CR 570-2 and Andrews 48 and Feuling 525?

Their numbers are quite same but curves are slightly different.

Don't see the TTS100 cam listed but I love it in my 2017 FLSTC.

[shindig]

Someone with much more knowledge than I will reply with a good choice or two.  But according to your post you should pick a cam that will best suit your ridding style.  Peak numbers are meaningless in this example.  If you ride from say 1500rpm to 4000 rpm you want a cam that works best in that range.  If you ride from 3000rpm to 6000rpm you want a cam that works best in that range.  And so on...  Also road manners, compression, ccp, etc all needs to be taken into account... 

[PoorUB]

 
I ran Andrews 48 and didn't care for them on the other hand I have run Andrews 57 and liked them.

[dirty jim]

Don't have any experience with these cams, but FUEL MOTO did a dyno shoot out using these and many more cams. Check out their web page.

[SB107]

I took all of the dyno sheets from the Fuel Moto study, used a plot digitizer on the sheets to extract data, put them in excel, and analyzed them. (Yes I spent way too much time on it)

Here are the results. The Max Tq is the maximum of the run, the Max Low, Mid, and top are averages from 2000-3500 RPM, 3000-5000 RPM, and 4500-6000 RPM. The max average torque is the average tq of the entire run.

[bigfoot5x]

To answer your question: No. The cams are all very similar and there is not enough variation in the numbers to notice the difference when you are riding. You will definitely feel a difference between the stock cam and one of these. That I could easily tell when I did the same thing to my Harley, but I doubt you could tell the difference within that assortment of cams. They are all popular cams so I doubt you can go wrong.

[Coff 06]

I realize that these are all "bolt in cams",but some of the cams shown with added lift will need a little more compression than stock to keep from being lazy on the bottom end.JMO.     Coff 06

[PoorUB]

True enough. I really liked the Andrews 57 at close to 10.5-1 compression!

[92flhtcu]

that S&S MR103 is a very decent cam with a 2:1 and stock heads, we use a lot of them here at the shop

[SB107]

The 48H and CR570-2 are almost identical in terms of tq curve, the Fueling 525 seems to be the under-performer...

[Finn]

I took all of the dyno sheets from the Fuel Moto study, used a plot digitizer on the sheets to extract data, put them in excel, and analyzed them. (Yes I spent way too much time on it)

Would you have energy left to do the same for hp figures? 
Differences between cams probably would look about the same as with tq figures.

[Finn]

The 48H and CR570-2 are almost identical in terms of tq curve, the Fueling 525 seems to be the under-performer...

For a layman like me it is interesting to see that even if there are 'several ways to skin a cat' the results are quite close to each other.

[SB107]

I took all of the dyno sheets from the Fuel Moto study, used a plot digitizer on the sheets to extract data, put them in excel, and analyzed them. (Yes I spent way too much time on it)

Would you have energy left to do the same for hp figures? 
Differences between cams probably would look about the same as with tq figures.

If the tq curve is the same then the hp curve would be the same. I just did tq for the sake of comparing where the cams put the "fun factor". 


I can compare other cams though any interest in seeing some other comparisons? its as simple as creating the graph in excel, as i already have all data i need.

[Finn]

I myself would be mostly interested to see CR570-2 and Andrews 48 difference.

This is because CR570-2 is backordered for 4 weeks and I need a very good Plan B.

[Boe Cole]

i've been happy with the MR103's, with Kuryakyn Mellows, A/C and TTS Tune here in Mountainous East Tennessee - home of the Dragon.

[SB107]

48H vs 570-2 vs TW-222

Threw in the triple 2 as another option with a similar curve (bit more hp)

[Finn]

Differences are, as was mentioned, more or less marginal. One should/would be quite happy with any of those cams.

Thank you! 

[Boe Cole]

The real question is why doesn't the moco put in higher cams in the first place.  EPA or aftermarket sales???

[PoorUB]

Makes you wonder! Pretty sure it is EPA.

But then I go buy a 1200CC BMW opposed twin that will run circles around a 1800 cc Harley. 2/3rds the engine and more performance stock out of the box.

[rigidthumper]

Makes you wonder! Pretty sure it is EPA.

But then I go buy a 1200CC BMW opposed twin that will run circles around a 1800 cc Harley. 2/3rds the engine and more performance stock out of the box.

FLHXSE  makes 110 TQ and 80 HP, and weighs 867 pounds.
The R1200RT makes 80 TQ and 110 HP, and weighs 600 pounds.
I think it's a throwback to the old days where weight was considered "more stable"

[PoorUB]

I bet it would  walk away from Stock Softail too. My point was the Harley engine is 1 1/2 times the size and the RT out performs it.
Goes back to the question. is it tuned for the EPA, or to sell hop up parts.

[Appowner]

Some years ago I had my 08 FXSTC built to a 103 with Red Shift 525.  My main complaint was the constant shifting I did during my 25 mile commute to/from work.  Speeds varied from 15 to 65 during the entire drive. 

So I told my mechanic to make it a stump puller.  The bump to 103 and the 525's did just that.  And my need to shift all the time was dramatically reduced.

They did what I wanted done.  Still have the bike, it's still a 103 with the 525s in it.

[Finn]

TW-222 was recommended to me and it seems very popular and produces good numbers - as do many other cams.

Do the TW-222 tend to be noisy?

[rhuff]

TW-222 was recommended to me and it seems very popular and produces good numbers - as do many other cams.

Do the TW-222 tend to be noisy?

Noisier than the Andrews 48.  And you don't pay the Woods tax.  Save money.  As good or better than the 222.  The 48 in a 103 is great. 

[Finn]

 

The decision making process is always so agonizing as you wish and hope that you have managed to gather enough information and advise to be able to make a decision.

And then you realize that there is a product you haven't considered at all. And the 'circus' starts over again. 

Luckily I'm having this problem now only with:
- cams
- exhaust
- tyres

[Hossamania]

Tyres - nothing wrong with OEM.
Cams - do you need to beat your friends off the line to the next stoplight, or beat them at the 1/4 mile and top speed?
Exhaust - pick one based on the looks and sounds you like, within reason.
See? Easy!

[Finn]

There are cams such as Andrews 57 and Cycle-Rama CR575 for which manufacturers/forums tend to recommend slight bump in compression ratio from stock when.

If I were to advance either cam with 4 degree sprocket is it so that it
- would move hp/tq to the left slightly?
- would remove the need of extra compression?

[Ohio HD]

Just my opinion, I would stay within a 25 to 30 degree intake closing with a stock motor to insure decent compression.

Why not do something different? How about an Andrews 48 with 1.725 rockers?


[attach=0] 

[Finn]

Yes, around 30 degrees is my layman's goal. CR575 with 4 degree sprocket would have 31 intake closing and leave room for further modifications such as 110 kit.

I fear a set of rocker arms would unfortunately break my budget and I would prefer not to pull the heads for thin head gaskets.

This probably would be easy to solve by ordering a set of Andrews 48s but one tends to think too much... 

[Ohio HD]

Buy what works now. You can always sell them when you want to go bigger in motor. I would do that before buying cams that may be a comprise on one or both side of pre and post performance upgrades.   

[rigidthumper]

There are cams such as Andrews 57 and Cycle-Rama CR575 for which manufacturers/forums tend to recommend slight bump in compression ratio from stock when.

If I were to advance either cam with 4 degree sprocket is it so that it
- would move hp/tq to the left slightly?
- would remove the need of extra compression?

4° sprockets shift peaks 300-400 RPM from straight up.  + (advance) moves it to the left, - (retard) moves it to the right.  Remember, any advance/retard sprocket will change all the cam events; advances/retards the intake and also advances/retards the exhaust events. Opening and closing the intake valve sooner can increase the CCP, but it means the exhaust valve is opening/closing sooner, so blowdown pressure is increased, which means some of the pressure designed to push on the piston ( and help make horsepower) is now flowing out the pipe instead.
Sometimes (depending on the pipes) nullifying the expected changes

[Finn]

Thanks guys for good pieces of advise, much appreciate it. 

[Finn]

Cycle-Rama CR570-2 it is.

Cams were on back order for a while but they got them early this week and just took my order. Which is nice. 

[838]

Cycle-Rama CR570-2 it is.

Cams were on back order for a while but they got them early this week and just took my order. Which is nice. 

There are a few 110"s with that cam too... for when you just can't resist!!!!

[Finn]

Will keep that in mind. Just in case. 

[Tail Ridr]

I took all of the dyno sheets from the Fuel Moto study, used a plot digitizer on the sheets to extract data, put them in excel, and analyzed them. (Yes I spent way too much time on it)

Being that FM did their test on a 2012, IIRC, It'd be curious as to how the H.O. cam interpolates in with these.

[Finn]

As far as I can tell the 103HO cam specs are as follows:



For my layman's eyes that looks fairly decent but I decided to change cams nevertheless.

[Finn]

Well, the CR570-2 cams are still stuck in Miami and I wanted to do something so we did a Stage 1 on Thursday.

This has just S&S Stealth air cleaner and Supertrapp Supermeg. Tuning was done with Power Vision based on tune I received from Dynojet. This IMHO turned out quite nice with good early torque. Max tq is about 105 lb-ft.

Supertrapp has closed end cap and 25 discs. Nice rumble but not too much.

This is 6th gear pull.

[Ohio HD]

That chart is really off.

[Finn]

Torque is in Newton metres.

[Armin]

105 ft lbs, looks great.

Armin.

[PoorUB]

The 570-2 will get you 5, maybe 10 ftlbs and 10 HP, but the stage 1 and a decent tune is pretty satisfying over stock.

I did pipes mufflers and a tune on my 2016 Limited and it was surprising the difference in ridability. On roll ons it would walk away from a stock 2016 Limited. I wanted a bit more and tossed in a set of 570-2's.

[stogieluvr60]

Another good choice is the V-Thunder TC-3101... they produce excellent results at a good price point. And you won't be running a cam a 1000 other guys are running if that matters at all.

[PoorUB]

There are alot of good cams, if you can get them. The OP is in finland, shipping sucks right now. It doesn't help to recommend another cam that he can not get!

[Ohio HD]

We get shipments daily from Italy and Austria, as well we ship items to them. Time to ship between USA and Europe hasn't changed.

[PoorUB]

For some reason his is held up.

[Ohio HD]

It's due to the shipper, not the shipping industry.

[PoorUB]

We receive and shop a lot of product every day. The shipping industry is a bit screwed up right now too. Shipments that we would get in 3-4 days take over a week. Overseas shipments have taken longer than normal. Perhaps you have a great shipping company, but shipping is far from normal whee i work.

As to the OP's shipment, something is probably screwed up. His order is probably sitting in a shipping container that someone forgot about! It happens! My dad worked for the railroad for 40 years. They would find boxcars full of freight that got "lost", sent down the wrong track, added to the wrong train and sent off into oblivion. They sit there until someone wonders why this odd boxcar is sitting there. Years back they ran across a refer car full of frozen dairy products that had run out of fuel for weeks, or maybe months. Rotten dairy was dripping out of the door and my dad said it stunk so bad you couldn't get close to it. I can't imagine someone having to clean out that mess! Tons of spoiled ice cream!

[Ohio HD]

We use UPS and DHL for overseas. We don't do anything special. This applies to small light weight shipments and large heavy shipments. Of course machinery is sent by a different carrier.

An order that leaves on a Wednesday, usually arrives on Friday or the next Monday. Our customers wouldn't stand for longer shipments.


[attach=0]

[Finn]

Parcel is already in a flight container waiting at Miami airport and it is impossible to get it from there or to cancel the order. Mine is not the only delayed overseas shipment.

My dealer has Andrews 48 in stock but this CR570-2 is bought and paid for so it is just a matter of waiting for it to arrive. With my luck it is November or something. 

[Ohio HD]

Finn, would you be better to use the Andrews cams and then sell the 570 cams when they show up? I own a set of 48's in a 96", they run out really good.

The 96" is stock except the cams, stage one breather and D&D exhaust.

The first run was with the base MAP from DJ.

Consider as well the chart is SAE, which will show less than if displayed in DIN. And I understand the torque after you explained the Kn reading.


http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,98936.msg1155981.html#msg1155981

[jls 64]

 instal the 48 you will like it

[WhipLash96]

Just my opinion, I would stay within a 25 to 30 degree intake closing with a stock motor to insure decent compression.



[attach=0,msg1334663]

You could also use a cam with an even lower intake closing event to help increase compression. Example, one could use the the S&S 583 in a 103 and achieve around 9.8 corrected compression. That event starts at 18 degrees. As stated already, a million ways to skin a cat.

[Appowner]

We get shipments daily from Italy and Austria, as well we ship items to them. Time to ship between USA and Europe hasn't changed.

I ordered some hobby stuff from the UK.  Royal Mail had it in Chicago in 3 days.  Chicago USPS claims to have processed it on 10 May.  Nothing since.  Tracking shows it still in Chicago.  3rd time this year for me.

[Herko]

...and then sell the 570 cams when they show up? I own a set of 48's in a 96", they run out really good.

Finn.
Waiting for your 570-2 cams to arrive...worth the wait.
They are certainly not a slacker in a 96 and really shine in a 103.

96 with 570-2 cams: 
https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,112717.0.html

Too many Dyno examples of 570-2 cams in 103s to count in the Dyno section.

[Ohio HD]

I've never personally used 48"s in a 103", but in a 96" I would use 48's all day. The torque and HP starts a little sooner. Has more where you're riding when in slow speed traffic, or just pulling away. The earlier intake closing I'm sure attributes to this in part. The rest of the RPM range it's something you would never feel ridding it, a few values either way of torque and HP. 48's also cost less for those looking to maximize their dollars to upgrade.

Two different dyno's different exhaust, and there is only any real difference in the lower end.


[attach=0]

[Buglet]

  It sure look like the 48's are the way to go for ever day riding unless you chasing HP.

[chipthedonkey]

I've got 48s in a 98" build on a Road King that went up from its original 88".  Comes in early and pulls a long time.  It's a nice cam.  Not a hot rod piece but a really nice riding cam.

[sharkoilfield]

 [attach=0]
Just throwing another dyno in here; a SE 103 kit and S&S 583 E-Z starts on an '08 96 inch.  Very tractable; used for touring. I have E-Z starts in my bike and the wife's; nice after a gas stop in 100 degree heat. No comp releases to fuss with.

[Don D]

Andrew's 48 13/29 43/15 .548 Cr570-2 14/32 50/0 .570 .560

[Finn]

Christmas came early this year. But no workshop time available until mid-August. 

[sfmichael]

  

[Hossamania]

Yup, I think you'll like them. A friend just put them in with a proper tune, big smiles all around.

[Finn]

Update on this case:

We did all sorts of things at my dealer on Tuesday and Wednesday. CR570-2 are now in with S&S lifters. Bike had S&S Stealth air cleaner already as well as Supertrapp Supermeg 2-1 with 'guesstimated' 25 discs and closed end cap.

We got a Power vision map from Dynojet and used that as starting point. Took us a while to adjust fuelling and so on but after a bit of Auto tuning etc. we were quite satisfied with the AFR across the rpm range. We started with 30 discs in Supermeg.

What was a bit strange is that it made about 90 horses from the start but changes in VE tables or timing or adding discs had very little if any effect on the numbers.

We even tested with just the Supermeg core and no discs but naturally that killed torque and made no extra horses. We ended with 35 discs and closed end cap.

Final numbers are 90 horses @ about 5000 rpm. Torque is about 107 lb-ft (cannot remember rpm)

I feel this is perhaps 5...7 horses down on power but then again the way it pulls from 2500 it does put a wide  on my face.

I'm in principle OK with the numbers, it is just that it did not react much to changes. I'm wondering a bit if the Supermeg is choking it or if the map just was quite close from the start.

[sfmichael]

not everyone has access to a truly comprehensive tune / tuner

I have a 2013 Street Glide that was built with SE204's / exhaust / air cleaner etc

It made 90hp / 105tq and I LOVED it - it ran fantastic

A truly gifted tuner might have gotten another 5 / 5 out of it but just like you, that motor put a big smile on my face every time I rode it

Congrats!! 

[rauchman]

TW-222 was recommended to me and it seems very popular and produces good numbers - as do many other cams.

Do the TW-222 tend to be noisy?

My bike (2013 FLD) has a stage 1, otherwise stock.  I just recently replaced a set of Andrews 57H cams with the Woods 222's.  The 57's were great when cruising at 3k rpm on up, and would pull to redline.  I found them lacking on the low end.  They also ran a bit rough, but I would guess a better tune would rectify that.

The Woods 222's, are very smooth.  Transformed my Dyna into something approaching the smoothness of a touring bike.  Also, the bike now has pull from as low as 1600 rpm, at 2500rpm it's really in the meat of the rev range and pulls well to 4500rpm and is done by 5000rpm.  I miss the higher rev performance of the 57's, but overall I find the 222's much more agreeable to how I ride and much more livable.

From the research I had done, the Andrews 48 and CR-570-2 are very similar in dyno charts.  Went with the 222's over the others in quest of finding a smidge more zing based on dyno charts I've seen, but I think I would be just as happy with the other 2 options listed.  Ultimately, very happy with the 222's.  If I was willing to do headwork and increase compression, i would have stayed with the 57's.

As for noise, I adjusted the push roads to about .135, and my valve train is spooky quiet.

[PoorUB]

Andrews 57's need a bit of a compression  bump to work well. Andrews says up to 10.3 to 1 IIRC. But I ran them at 10.5 and it really wakes them up. I wouldn't  put them in a stock compression engine.

[Adam76]

not everyone has access to a truly comprehensive tune / tuner

I have a 2013 Street Glide that was built with SE204's / exhaust / air cleaner etc

It made 90hp / 105tq and I LOVED it - it ran fantastic

A truly gifted tuner might have gotten another 5 / 5 out of it but just like you, that motor put a big smile on my face every time I rode it

Congrats!! 

Hey sfmichael,  l remember you posting about your 103" se204 build a few years ago. Your results still impress me! 

Can you tell us again what your exact set up was with those cams?  You know, all the supporting  components that all work together to make the end result?

Thanks. 

[sfmichael]

Adam the recipe was brand a new 2013 Street Glide 103, Cycle Shack header, Kuryakyn Crusher mufflers (not the mellows - regular Crushers), SE204 cams, SE air cleaner with stock cover, SEPST / SE Pro Tuner tuned at Apol's HD in Alexandria, MN.

I used SE cams in order to protect my 2 year warranty and had all the initial work done at the selling dealer for the same reason. I was delighted with the results and have been working on improving it but have come up snake eyes on my second attempt. Should have left it alone.

2nd build was/is Andrews 54 cams +4* with ported heads and throttle body. Feels good, but not noticeably better. Not happy with return on investment 2nd time.
Switched to PowerVision later to try different tunes but no significant power increase felt. In fairness hadn't done dyno tune but decided I was going farther so just bailed on this build, so to speak.

3rd build will be 110 CID drop on kit with TMan 590 cams, different heads, and PowerVision dyno tune. The reason I didn't dyno the 2nd build is I have no competent tuner in my city or anywhere close by. 3rd build I will drag the bike 600-1000 miles to a known good tuner. Still deciding on that destination.

Although out of favor now, the SE204 cams made me smile every time I rode it. And I still smile (the 54's run very well) I just smile with a lighter wallet  
Hoping the third build will be the last, but if I don't like it I'll try another set of cams.

Thanks for asking

[Adam76]

Adam the recipe was brand a new 2013 Street Glide 103, Cycle Shack header, Kuryakyn Crusher mufflers (not the mellows - regular Crushers), SE204 cams, SE air cleaner with stock cover, SEPST / SE Pro Tuner tuned at Apol's HD in Alexandria, MN.

I used SE cams in order to protect my 2 year warranty and had all the initial work done at the selling dealer for the same reason. I was delighted with the results and have been working on improving it but have come up snakes eyes on my second attempt. Should have left it alone.

2nd build was/is Andrews 54 cams +4* with ported heads and throttle body. Feels good, but not noticeably better. Not happy with return on investment 2nd time.
Switched to PowerVision later to try different tunes but no significant power increase felt. In fairness hadn't done dyno tune but decided I was going farther so just bailed on this build, so to speak.

3rd build will be 110 CID drop on kit with TMan 590 cams, different heads, and PowerVision dyno tune. The reason I didn't dyno the 2nd build is I have no competent tuner in my city or anywhere close by. 3rd build I will drag the bike 600-1000 miles to a known good tuner. Still deciding on that destination.

Although out of favor now, the SE204 cams made me smile every time I rode it. And I still smile (the 54's run very well) I just smile with a lighter wallet  
Hoping the third build will be the last, but if I don't like it I'll try another set of cams.

Thanks for asking

Hey, thanks for the reply and the detailed info. That 204 recipe is pretty simple and low cost compared to some other options. Great usable power too.

That's a shame about the second build and money spent not for much gain. I think we've all been there at one point or another...  I wonder what the 57 would have been like in that build instead of the 54?

Anyways, the 110" drop on build sounds good. What compression are you going to end up with?

Cheers.

[Finn]

Adam the recipe was brand a new 2013 Street Glide 103, Cycle Shack header, Kuryakyn Crusher mufflers (not the mellows - regular Crushers), SE204 cams, SE air cleaner with stock cover, SEPST / SE Pro Tuner tuned at Apol's HD in Alexandria, MN.

What sort of numbers did this recipe produce, if you do not mind me asking?

[sfmichael]

Adam the recipe was brand a new 2013 Street Glide 103, Cycle Shack header, Kuryakyn Crusher mufflers (not the mellows - regular Crushers), SE204 cams, SE air cleaner with stock cover, SEPST / SE Pro Tuner tuned at Apol's HD in Alexandria, MN.

I used SE cams in order to protect my 2 year warranty and had all the initial work done at the selling dealer for the same reason. I was delighted with the results and have been working on improving it but have come up snakes eyes on my second attempt. Should have left it alone.

2nd build was/is Andrews 54 cams +4* with ported heads and throttle body. Feels good, but not noticeably better. Not happy with return on investment 2nd time.
Switched to PowerVision later to try different tunes but no significant power increase felt. In fairness hadn't done dyno tune but decided I was going farther so just bailed on this build, so to speak.

3rd build will be 110 CID drop on kit with TMan 590 cams, different heads, and PowerVision dyno tune. The reason I didn't dyno the 2nd build is I have no competent tuner in my city or anywhere close by. 3rd build I will drag the bike 600-1000 miles to a known good tuner. Still deciding on that destination.

Although out of favor now, the SE204 cams made me smile every time I rode it. And I still smile (the 54's run very well) I just smile with a lighter wallet  
Hoping the third build will be the last, but if I don't like it I'll try another set of cams.

Thanks for asking

Hey, thanks for the reply and the detailed info. That 204 recipe is pretty simple and low cost compared to some other options. Great usable power too.

That's a shame about the second build and money spent not for much gain. I think we've all been there at one point or another...  I wonder what the 57 would have been like in that build instead of the 54?

Anyways, the 110" drop on build sounds good. What compression are you going to end up with?

Cheers.

Adam shooting for about 10.8/9:1 static @ sea level - on the high side for that cam but I live at 6000' and will lose considerable cranking compression because of that factor. It cranks over 200ccp here now and can ping easily on warm days or if not ridden carefully. If I build it for this elevation it would be hardly rideable at sea level I would imagine. My current combo would likely crank 225-235 @ sea level. It's very snappy and responsive.
So much of this engine building involves trade-offs or compromise. :-/

[sfmichael]

Adam the recipe was brand a new 2013 Street Glide 103, Cycle Shack header, Kuryakyn Crusher mufflers (not the mellows - regular Crushers), SE204 cams, SE air cleaner with stock cover, SEPST / SE Pro Tuner tuned at Apol's HD in Alexandria, MN.

What sort of numbers did this recipe produce, if you do not mind me asking?

Finn it made an unimpressive 90hp / 105 tq but for me I thought it was great. Built and tuned at 1400' the bike ran fantastic. Not bragging numbers but honest numbers I feel. Might have made more at a "super tuner" shop, but that wasn't an option. I felt the selling dealer did an excellent job. Couldn't have been more pleased. It made lots of torque early and pulled hard to 5000+ rpm. It's a combination I would definitely recommend. And given the fact that it needed to be a HD cam to retain warranty it was definitely the best choice available at the time for a stock compression engine.

[Adam76]

Adam the recipe was brand a new 2013 Street Glide 103, Cycle Shack header, Kuryakyn Crusher mufflers (not the mellows - regular Crushers), SE204 cams, SE air cleaner with stock cover, SEPST / SE Pro Tuner tuned at Apol's HD in Alexandria, MN.

What sort of numbers did this recipe produce, if you do not mind me asking?

Finn it made an unimpressive 90hp / 105 tq but for me I thought it was great. Built and tuned at 1400' the bike ran fantastic. Not bragging numbers but honest numbers I feel. Might have made more at a "super tuner" shop, but that wasn't an option. I felt the selling dealer did an excellent job. Couldn't have been more pleased. It made lots of torque early and pulled hard to 5000+ rpm. It's a combination I would definitely recommend. And given the fact that it needed to be a HD cam to retain warranty it was definitely the best choice available at the time for a stock compression engine.

I don't think that's an "unimpressive" result for a cams only upgrade, especially as SE cam that kept your warranty!
I did cams on a 2014 heritage, S&S MR103s and tuned with power vision. Made 85/80 only, so your 105/90 numbers are not too bad. Then again my true dual pipes weren't helping that build 🙄

[Finn]

Finn it made an unimpressive 90hp / 105 tq but for me I thought it was great. Built and tuned at 1400' the bike ran fantastic. Not bragging numbers but honest numbers I feel. Might have made more at a "super tuner" shop, but that wasn't an option. I felt the selling dealer did an excellent job. Couldn't have been more pleased. It made lots of torque early and pulled hard to 5000+ rpm. It's a combination I would definitely recommend. And given the fact that it needed to be a HD cam to retain warranty it was definitely the best choice available at the time for a stock compression engine.

Those are about the same numbers I made with the CR570-2 so I can understand why you are happy with how it runs. 



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