Cam end-play question

[Molly]

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I recently bought back an '82 FLH. Getting to know it a bit better I discovered that the previous owner has fitted a S&S cam, hydraulic valve train conversion kit (https://www.sscycle.com/products/hydraulic-valve-train-conversion-kit-1966-84-for-shovelhead-engines/) and Quickie push rods.

I was pleased to discover the upgrades but noticed that the cam end-play was just .003. After reinstalling the lifters and pushrods for the rear cylinder I re-measured and it was .015. Would this variance be normal or does it indicate excessive wear at the cam support / cone end of things? Hope the question makes sense.

Thanks in advance.

Molly

[Hybredhog]

   Depends on the gasket you re-assembled it with. People try to hard to be hero's about sucking up the play, & it bites them. Old OEM was like .005- .016", and even they finally figured out that it wasn't going anywhere, and bumped it up to .050" & got rid of the eared thrust washer.

[Ohio HD]

I always would shoot for 0.010" to 0.015". Not sloppy, not tight. 

[turboprop]

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I recently bought back an '82 FLH. Getting to know it a bit better I discovered that the previous owner has fitted a S&S cam, hydraulic valve train conversion kit (https://www.sscycle.com/products/hydraulic-valve-train-conversion-kit-1966-84-for-shovelhead-engines/) and Quickie push rods.

I was pleased to discover the upgrades but noticed that the cam end-play was just .003. After reinstalling the lifters and pushrods for the rear cylinder I re-measured and it was .015. Would this variance be normal or does it indicate excessive wear at the cam support / cone end of things? Hope the question makes sense.

Thanks in advance.

Molly

Wait a minute. Simply changing the lifters and pushrods would not require the nose cone to be removed. Before anyone else goes off offering half cocked answers, please confirm or deny if you removed the nose cone and changed the gasket?

If the nose cone was not removed, then the varying end-play measurements are cause for a very different discussion.

[Molly]

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I recently bought back an '82 FLH. Getting to know it a bit better I discovered that the previous owner has fitted a S&S cam, hydraulic valve train conversion kit (https://www.sscycle.com/products/hydraulic-valve-train-conversion-kit-1966-84-for-shovelhead-engines/) and Quickie push rods.

I was pleased to discover the upgrades but noticed that the cam end-play was just .003. After reinstalling the lifters and pushrods for the rear cylinder I re-measured and it was .015. Would this variance be normal or does it indicate excessive wear at the cam support / cone end of things? Hope the question makes sense.

Thanks in advance.

Molly

Wait a minute. Simply changing the lifters and pushrods would not require the nose cone to be removed. Before anyone else goes off offering half cocked answers, please confirm or deny if you removed the nose cone and changed the gasket?

If the nose cone was not removed, then the varying end-play measurements are cause for a very different discussion.

No. Didn't remove the cone. I just measured when the lifter assemblies were out and again, just out of interest, when I'd reinstalled the lifters and correctly adjusted the pushrods on the rear cylinder.

Thanks.

[turboprop]

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I recently bought back an '82 FLH. Getting to know it a bit better I discovered that the previous owner has fitted a S&S cam, hydraulic valve train conversion kit (https://www.sscycle.com/products/hydraulic-valve-train-conversion-kit-1966-84-for-shovelhead-engines/) and Quickie push rods.

I was pleased to discover the upgrades but noticed that the cam end-play was just .003. After reinstalling the lifters and pushrods for the rear cylinder I re-measured and it was .015. Would this variance be normal or does it indicate excessive wear at the cam support / cone end of things? Hope the question makes sense.

Thanks in advance.

Molly

Wait a minute. Simply changing the lifters and pushrods would not require the nose cone to be removed. Before anyone else goes off offering half cocked answers, please confirm or deny if you removed the nose cone and changed the gasket?

If the nose cone was not removed, then the varying end-play measurements are cause for a very different discussion.

No. Didn't remove the cone. I just measured when the lifter assemblies were out and again, just out of interest, when I'd reinstalled the lifters and correctly adjusted the pushrods on the rear cylinder.

Thanks.

This changes everything. The other responses to your question are all based on a different thickness gasket between the cam cover and the engine case. A different thickness gasket would change the end play on the cam.

BUT, seeing as you did not remove that cam cover or change the gasket, then the end play the cam should not have changed. Simply removing the lifter blocks/lifter and pushrods will not affect the end play. Something else is going on.

Without knowing you and your abilities, my knee jerk reaction is you are not measuring the end play in a manner that will yield consistent/repeatable results. That cam is supported laterally on one end by the bushing in the nose cone and the engine case/thrust washer/spacer on the other end. None of these components should move or compress.

Best of luck with your project.

[Molly]

This changes everything. The other responses to your question are all based on a different thickness gasket between the cam cover and the engine case. A different thickness gasket would change the end play on the cam.

BUT, seeing as you did not remove that cam cover or change the gasket, then the end play the cam should not have changed. Simply removing the lifter blocks/lifter and pushrods will not affect the end play. Something else is going on.

Without knowing you and your abilities, my knee jerk reaction is you are not measuring the end play in a manner that will yield consistent/repeatable results. That cam is supported laterally on one end by the bushing in the nose cone and the engine case/thrust washer/spacer on the other end. None of these components should move or compress.

Best of luck with your project.

Thanks. That'd be my concern. That pressure on the camshaft should make such a difference in terms of end-play. As you say, the parts shouldn't compress as such. It's possibly down to my measuring skills I guess but I'm simply trying to slide in a feeler gauge between the camshaft and the spacer.

As an aside, I've just disassembled and reassembled the lifters after deciding to remove the travel limiting spacers that are designed to effectively make hydraulic lifters behave like solid at high RPM. I felt that removing them might reduce valve train noise a little. Performance / high RPM isn't as high on my list as solid dependability and reducing mechanical noise where I can. Biblical rain at the moment so I've not had a chance to see if I can hear a difference.

[JW113]

When I am installing a cam, and checking end play, always do it DRY. Oil between the bushing/cam/bearing makes it difficult to get an accurate reading.

-JW

[turboprop]

This changes everything. The other responses to your question are all based on a different thickness gasket between the cam cover and the engine case. A different thickness gasket would change the end play on the cam.

BUT, seeing as you did not remove that cam cover or change the gasket, then the end play the cam should not have changed. Simply removing the lifter blocks/lifter and pushrods will not affect the end play. Something else is going on.

Without knowing you and your abilities, my knee jerk reaction is you are not measuring the end play in a manner that will yield consistent/repeatable results. That cam is supported laterally on one end by the bushing in the nose cone and the engine case/thrust washer/spacer on the other end. None of these components should move or compress.

Best of luck with your project.

Thanks. That'd be my concern. That pressure on the camshaft should make such a difference in terms of end-play. As you say, the parts shouldn't compress as such. It's possibly down to my measuring skills I guess but I'm simply trying to slide in a feeler gauge between the camshaft and the spacer.

As an aside, I've just disassembled and reassembled the lifters after deciding to remove the travel limiting spacers that are designed to effectively make hydraulic lifters behave like solid at high RPM. I felt that removing them might reduce valve train noise a little. Performance / high RPM isn't as high on my list as solid dependability and reducing mechanical noise where I can. Biblical rain at the moment so I've not had a chance to see if I can hear a difference.

Tech Tip: When measuring the cam endplay, remove whatever is inside the nose cone and put a screw into the end of the cam. Use as long of a screw as you have laying around. This will allow the measurer to have a good grip on the screw as they pull out and push in on the cam. Measurements must be taken with the cam pulled as far out as it will go.

If for whatever reason you find the endplay to be too close, it may be possible to simply pull the nose cone and replace the gasket with a thicker gasket. Same if the endplay is too loose, a thinner gasket may be used.

[Molly]

Thank you all for taking the time to offer your advice.

Much appreciated.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Bottom line, tight is good.....in certain circumstances....

[Burnout]

I thought loose is fast?   

[Racepres]

I thought loose is fast?   

Always was for our team... but Not Too Loose!!!

[capn]

If they are tight they will loosen up in short order.

[Racepres]

If they are tight they will loosen up in short order.

Not until they "burn" the Thrust!!!

[Burnout]

They must hold their breath because they turn blue trying to loosen up....