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2016 FatBoyS 110 to 117 Build

Started by Wookie3011, March 14, 2020, 07:24:41 PM

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Wookie3011

Just Received the 110 To 117 Kit via Harley.  This comes with the 259E cam. My question is what Compression Ratio should I try to achieve to optimize the profile of this cam. Is there a better choice for the 117 kit as far as Cams? Cosmetic .030 help?  Any information is greatly appreciated.

Don D

March 15, 2020, 07:23:26 AM #1 Last Edit: March 15, 2020, 07:43:02 AM by HD Street Performance
11:1
Not talked about much is the pistons are usually ~.010 in the hole, an easy fix.
11:1 wont happen properly with the Harley pistons. Change pistons or change the cam to something that has an intake close closer to 43°. Your call which one.
Have a look where you are at now.

Ohio HD

I've personally not used the SE259, but it has very similar timing to the Andrews 55 and S&S 585 which both I have used. A good nominal starting point for the Andrews and S&S is 10.5:1 mechanical compression. I've seen where as up to 10.8:1 works but requires a more finite tune and adjusting the riding style from cruiser mode to running the RPM's out further when riding.

Below the calculations say the SE kit will give about 9.8:1 compression. You can machine the heads to 93cc, zero the pistons to the top of the cylinders, use 0.030" head gaskets, and that puts you at almost 10.5:1. The SE cams would perform good there.

If you just want to ride and want more power, I wouldn't worry about squeezing the maximum compression out of the motor. If you are looking for maximum top end power, then yes, max out the compression, but adjust your riding style somewhat, and don't use lower octane fuels.


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Don D

March 15, 2020, 08:22:26 AM #3 Last Edit: March 15, 2020, 08:28:04 AM by HD Street Performance
Yes close to the Andrews 55 but very different, efi biased, LSA and LC.
The wider LSA has an effect of wider lower overall torque curve.
The 117 kit out of the box runs soft below 2500 rpms. Even a half point up by milling and head gasket and cylinder milling goes a long way toward fixing that.
What I suggest will run better on premium but can take 89 you had to, not at 11:1, that is premium only.
Don't want to mess with it, want the easy way out? Just swap the cam for the Harley SE585


Wookie3011

March 15, 2020, 01:05:30 PM #4 Last Edit: March 15, 2020, 01:31:34 PM by Wookie3011
Thanks for the replies! SE585 huh. Excellent. I would love the easy way out. I'm doing the kit Myself. Had considered sending the heads off To Larry. If my Pinion shaft Run out is beyond .0010 I'm going to do the Crank and do the heads also. If not and all looks good then the easy way would be best for my Build. I'm not looking for stupid fast but dint want to leave power on the table that could have been easily Acquired for A nominal amount of Money. My riding style is I love the low end torque and usually Don't  rap the motor above 5000. That's not to say I Don't  take it to 6000 every once in a while. Tuning will be done with Power Vision Or TTS I have both but PowerVision has been enough so far. If I where to get different Pistons what would you suggest with the 259E? The heads are 110SE those are 85cc? Again thanks for the Responses and information.

HighLiner

my 103 made 120hp with Larry's heads and the 259e set at 11:1

jsachs1

Quote from: Wookie3011 on March 15, 2020, 01:05:30 PM
Thanks for the replies! SE585 huh. Excellent. I would love the easy way out. I'm doing the kit Myself. Had considered sending the heads off To Larry. If my Pinion shaft Run out is beyond .0010 I'm going to do the Crank and do the heads also. If not and all looks good then the easy way would be best for my Build. I'm not looking for stupid fast but dint want to leave power on the table that could have been easily Acquired for A nominal amount of Money. My riding style is I love the low end torque and usually Don't  rap the motor above 5000. That's not to say I Don't  take it to 6000 every once in a while. Tuning will be done with Power Vision Or TTS I have both but PowerVision has been enough so far. If I where to get different what would you suggest with the 259E? The heads are 110SE those are 85cc? Again thanks for the Responses and information.
110" SE heads avg. 95 cc. Water cooled 110" SE heads, I won't mill more than .025" because of the water jacket angle on 1 side.
John

boooby1744

Quote from: Wookie3011 on March 15, 2020, 01:05:30 PM
Thanks for the replies! SE585 huh. Excellent. I would love the easy way out. I'm doing the kit Myself. Had considered sending the heads off To Larry. If my Pinion shaft Run out is beyond .0010 I'm going to do the Crank and do the heads also. If not and all looks good then the easy way would be best for my Build. I'm not looking for stupid fast but dint want to leave power on the table that could have been easily Acquired for A nominal amount of Money. My riding style is I love the low end torque and usually Don't  rap the motor above 5000. That's not to say I Don't  take it to 6000 every once in a while. Tuning will be done with Power Vision Or TTS I have both but PowerVision has been enough so far. If I where to get different Pistons what would you suggest with the 259E? The heads are 110SE those are 85cc? Again thanks for the Responses and information.
Lowering gearing a tad would feel good.

Hillside Motorcycle

Recently used an existing 259 in a 103" from Binghamton, NY, with our Stage II Heads, and modified t/body.
Ran up some respectable numbers, once we completed the tuning.
Not a "go-to" cam, but we'll work with it for a client.

Otto Knowbetter sez, "Even a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut"

Wookie3011

What would be a good gear to lower to. I have noticed I hardly have a need to go into 6th gear.

cheech

Ohio, where could one find the dynamic compression ratio calc. you posted?

rigidthumper

I like that kit with a cometic .030" head gasket, zero deck, TTS150 cam, decent pipe & SEHB.
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

Ohio HD



boooby1744

Quote from: Wookie3011 on March 16, 2020, 11:45:58 AM
What would be a good gear to lower to. I have noticed I hardly have a need to go into 6th gear.
49 tooth basket

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kd

 :agree:  .... and add a 31 tooth transmission pulley for a 3.16:1 final ratio.  It's a perfect all around ratio.
KD

Wookie3011

Wow! The TTS150 is a real contender. Looking at The Dyno Sheets. Looks like I could just install that and forget about it. Anyone have any experience in tuning with this Cam? TTS150? I have a TTS Tuner already Married to my VIN as well as a PowerVision. Had a hard time getting The TTS to Tune. Read all the Documentation but it's pretty Involved.

shindig

I have learned a lot on this site, and more specifically a lot from Don at HD Street Performance.  I am currently doing a 117 build that he designed for my needs.  The most important things to note for any build is what is the use of the motorcycle (touring, "bar hopper", hot rod, drag, etc.), what RPM range do you mostly ride in, and it is all about the combination not random "best" parts.  Sounds like you like to have a lot of torque right off the rip go through the gears quickly without revving the piss out of it.  That's good, engine will last longer.  If you don't want to spend much more money, or just maybe good "value" money, use a .030 head gasket and find out about how much static compression that is.  Next find a good cam that operates in the RPM range you ride in and needs the compression level you will be at.  You should be plenty happy there.  And dyno sheets just tell part of the story...like full throttle in one gear....  Not everyday normal riding and usable power....  Don gave you one good option already.  Stick the SE585 cam in there....

Wookie3011

So I ordered The TTS-150. Having a hard Time finding The specs to estimate My Compression. Does anyone got any Idea at to what Compression I would Be at with this Cam? Already  got The Cometic .030 On the way.  Also after further investigation I noticed the 49 tooth basket isn't Compatible with My Cruise Control. At least that's my understanding.  This is coming from a newbie Bike tinkerer. Thanks Brothers

cheech

Quote from: Wookie3011 on March 19, 2020, 02:15:10 PM
So I ordered The TTS-150. Having a hard Time finding The specs to estimate My Compression.
Those specs are shrouded in secrecy.  :idunno: According to other discussions on this site. Do a search.
If released I do believe it'll cure the Covid 19.  :potstir:

Ohio HD

Set the compression to 10.5:1 for optimum all around use of the TTS-150's. You can go down to 10.2:1 if needed. But I'd set the compression at 10.5:1.


https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,111116.0.html

Wookie3011

10:5.1 That still pump 89 octane friendly? Shrouded in Secrecy? Someone better Let The Center For Disease Creation Know TTS has the Cure. I'd Rather Stick that into My Veins then whatever Cocktail They Miraculously Come up with In Record Time. Almost seems to Good to be true or Coincidence. Anyways this is a Harley Forum so I'll Keep My Tavistock Group Think to Myself. Thanks again.

Ohio HD

Yep, but that's on your dyno tuner to insure.

Wookie3011

Thanks OhioHD and everyone for your Knowledge and help

boooby1744

i'm pretty sure You TTS tuner will correct for the 49 tooth basket.