2016 FatBoyS 110 to 117 Build

[Wookie3011]

Just Received the 110 To 117 Kit via Harley.  This comes with the 259E cam. My question is what Compression Ratio should I try to achieve to optimize the profile of this cam. Is there a better choice for the 117 kit as far as Cams? Cosmetic .030 help?  Any information is greatly appreciated.

[Don D]

11:1
Not talked about much is the pistons are usually ~.010 in the hole, an easy fix.
11:1 wont happen properly with the Harley pistons. Change pistons or change the cam to something that has an intake close closer to 43°. Your call which one.
Have a look where you are at now.

[Ohio HD]

I've personally not used the SE259, but it has very similar timing to the Andrews 55 and S&S 585 which both I have used. A good nominal starting point for the Andrews and S&S is 10.5:1 mechanical compression. I've seen where as up to 10.8:1 works but requires a more finite tune and adjusting the riding style from cruiser mode to running the RPM's out further when riding.

Below the calculations say the SE kit will give about 9.8:1 compression. You can machine the heads to 93cc, zero the pistons to the top of the cylinders, use 0.030" head gaskets, and that puts you at almost 10.5:1. The SE cams would perform good there.

If you just want to ride and want more power, I wouldn't worry about squeezing the maximum compression out of the motor. If you are looking for maximum top end power, then yes, max out the compression, but adjust your riding style somewhat, and don't use lower octane fuels.


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[Don D]

Yes close to the Andrews 55 but very different, efi biased, LSA and LC.
The wider LSA has an effect of wider lower overall torque curve.
The 117 kit out of the box runs soft below 2500 rpms. Even a half point up by milling and head gasket and cylinder milling goes a long way toward fixing that.
What I suggest will run better on premium but can take 89 you had to, not at 11:1, that is premium only.
Don't want to mess with it, want the easy way out? Just swap the cam for the Harley SE585

[Wookie3011]

Thanks for the replies! SE585 huh. Excellent. I would love the easy way out. I'm doing the kit Myself. Had considered sending the heads off To Larry. If my Pinion shaft Run out is beyond .0010 I'm going to do the Crank and do the heads also. If not and all looks good then the easy way would be best for my Build. I'm not looking for stupid fast but dint want to leave power on the table that could have been easily Acquired for A nominal amount of Money. My riding style is I love the low end torque and usually Don't  rap the motor above 5000. That's not to say I Don't  take it to 6000 every once in a while. Tuning will be done with Power Vision Or TTS I have both but PowerVision has been enough so far. If I where to get different Pistons what would you suggest with the 259E? The heads are 110SE those are 85cc? Again thanks for the Responses and information.

[HighLiner]

my 103 made 120hp with Larry's heads and the 259e set at 11:1

[jsachs1]

Thanks for the replies! SE585 huh. Excellent. I would love the easy way out. I'm doing the kit Myself. Had considered sending the heads off To Larry. If my Pinion shaft Run out is beyond .0010 I'm going to do the Crank and do the heads also. If not and all looks good then the easy way would be best for my Build. I'm not looking for stupid fast but dint want to leave power on the table that could have been easily Acquired for A nominal amount of Money. My riding style is I love the low end torque and usually Don't  rap the motor above 5000. That's not to say I Don't  take it to 6000 every once in a while. Tuning will be done with Power Vision Or TTS I have both but PowerVision has been enough so far. If I where to get different what would you suggest with the 259E? The heads are 110SE those are 85cc? Again thanks for the Responses and information.

110" SE heads avg. 95 cc. Water cooled 110" SE heads, I won't mill more than .025" because of the water jacket angle on 1 side.
John

[boooby1744]

Thanks for the replies! SE585 huh. Excellent. I would love the easy way out. I'm doing the kit Myself. Had considered sending the heads off To Larry. If my Pinion shaft Run out is beyond .0010 I'm going to do the Crank and do the heads also. If not and all looks good then the easy way would be best for my Build. I'm not looking for stupid fast but dint want to leave power on the table that could have been easily Acquired for A nominal amount of Money. My riding style is I love the low end torque and usually Don't  rap the motor above 5000. That's not to say I Don't  take it to 6000 every once in a while. Tuning will be done with Power Vision Or TTS I have both but PowerVision has been enough so far. If I where to get different Pistons what would you suggest with the 259E? The heads are 110SE those are 85cc? Again thanks for the Responses and information.

Lowering gearing a tad would feel good.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Recently used an existing 259 in a 103" from Binghamton, NY, with our Stage II Heads, and modified t/body.
Ran up some respectable numbers, once we completed the tuning.
Not a "go-to" cam, but we'll work with it for a client.

[Wookie3011]

What would be a good gear to lower to. I have noticed I hardly have a need to go into 6th gear.

[cheech]

Ohio, where could one find the dynamic compression ratio calc. you posted?

[rigidthumper]

I like that kit with a cometic .030" head gasket, zero deck, TTS150 cam, decent pipe & SEHB.

[Ohio HD]

Ohio, where could one find the dynamic compression ratio calc. you posted?

On HTT

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,105065.msg1243982.html#msg1243982

[cheech]

Ohio, where could one find the dynamic compression ratio calc. you posted?

On HTT

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,105065.msg1243982.html#msg1243982

[boooby1744]

What would be a good gear to lower to. I have noticed I hardly have a need to go into 6th gear.

49 tooth basket

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[kd]

   .... and add a 31 tooth transmission pulley for a 3.16:1 final ratio.  It's a perfect all around ratio.

[Wookie3011]

Wow! The TTS150 is a real contender. Looking at The Dyno Sheets. Looks like I could just install that and forget about it. Anyone have any experience in tuning with this Cam? TTS150? I have a TTS Tuner already Married to my VIN as well as a PowerVision. Had a hard time getting The TTS to Tune. Read all the Documentation but it's pretty Involved.

[shindig]

I have learned a lot on this site, and more specifically a lot from Don at HD Street Performance.  I am currently doing a 117 build that he designed for my needs.  The most important things to note for any build is what is the use of the motorcycle (touring, "bar hopper", hot rod, drag, etc.), what RPM range do you mostly ride in, and it is all about the combination not random "best" parts.  Sounds like you like to have a lot of torque right off the rip go through the gears quickly without revving the piss out of it.  That's good, engine will last longer.  If you don't want to spend much more money, or just maybe good "value" money, use a .030 head gasket and find out about how much static compression that is.  Next find a good cam that operates in the RPM range you ride in and needs the compression level you will be at.  You should be plenty happy there.  And dyno sheets just tell part of the story...like full throttle in one gear....  Not everyday normal riding and usable power....  Don gave you one good option already.  Stick the SE585 cam in there....

[Wookie3011]

So I ordered The TTS-150. Having a hard Time finding The specs to estimate My Compression. Does anyone got any Idea at to what Compression I would Be at with this Cam? Already  got The Cometic .030 On the way.  Also after further investigation I noticed the 49 tooth basket isn't Compatible with My Cruise Control. At least that's my understanding.  This is coming from a newbie Bike tinkerer. Thanks Brothers

[cheech]

So I ordered The TTS-150. Having a hard Time finding The specs to estimate My Compression.

Those specs are shrouded in secrecy.  According to other discussions on this site. Do a search.
If released I do believe it'll cure the Covid 19. 

[Ohio HD]

Set the compression to 10.5:1 for optimum all around use of the TTS-150's. You can go down to 10.2:1 if needed. But I'd set the compression at 10.5:1.


https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,111116.0.html

[Wookie3011]

10:5.1 That still pump 89 octane friendly? Shrouded in Secrecy? Someone better Let The Center For Disease Creation Know TTS has the Cure. I'd Rather Stick that into My Veins then whatever Cocktail They Miraculously Come up with In Record Time. Almost seems to Good to be true or Coincidence. Anyways this is a Harley Forum so I'll Keep My Tavistock Group Think to Myself. Thanks again.

[Ohio HD]

Yep, but that's on your dyno tuner to insure.

[Wookie3011]

Thanks OhioHD and everyone for your Knowledge and help

[boooby1744]

i'm pretty sure You TTS tuner will correct for the 49 tooth basket.

[Ohio HD]

Yes it does, you change the primary ratio value. Easy. 

[itsafatboy]

I would bump comp to 11.1 run the TMAN 660PS , if you want to stay there the woods TW8G is a great cam kind of noisy but in my 116" I got 132 hp and 140tq on the TW8 ,  run TW9BG now at 11.3 or so ,

just my opinion though   

[Wookie3011]

I would like to stay where it runs well on 89. So I'm assuming 10:5.1 is my top limit. If that wrong someone tell me. Thanks for letting me know. I forgot my  TTS can adjust ratios and spedo.

[Ohio HD]

If your plan is to run 89 always, and not the occasional when I have to, with the TTS-150 you might want to drop to a range of 10:1 to 10.2:1 static compression.

[Wookie3011]

I wont Run it always. Sometimes when I'm out Riding it's all they will have. I only use non ethanol. I use Octane boost because the nonethonal is 89 only. There may be times I can't get the booster so I'll look at that and thanks OhioHD with everything going on I've put in on hold for the work. Unless I can slap it back together with TTS cams and get 10:2.1 which I know I cant without Zero Decking them. Gonna wait to see if my job dont shut down before I spend another Dime. It will be there. Kind of disappointing but Priorities. Always have had the food on hand. Been preparing for 2 decades. I've seen the writing all the walls per say and I read alot of their books and white papers. Hopefully I'm just paranoid and crazy.

[Hossamania]

What type of octane boost are you using?

[Wookie3011]

VP Racing octane Booster.

[Wookie3011]

VP seems to work well anyone know of anything better. I know alot of the octane Boosters are just show. Dont know if this product is but I have seen good reviews on it but no actual numbers as to what it actually raises it to. I usually use 1/2 per tank full. It's what I tuned with via PowerVision. I used TTS at first but couldn't grid of heavy pinging and I wasn't about to run like that for long.. I know TTS is more Capable but in the right hands. I found a knowledgeable TTS Tuner so now it's just getting all the pieces and going to hang out with him.

[kd]

You'll soon get tired of packing that octane booster with you and the added cost.  That TTS is capable of providing a good tune so you won't need it.  The cost of the tune will quickly pay for itself in added satisfaction with a cooler better running engine.  Have it tuned on low octane and any better grade fuel will work fine.  Not so if you tune with high octane and get forced to fill with lower grade fuel.  Especially in hot weather or different elevations.

[Wookie3011]

The Engine Temp is the main Reason I ran out and got a tuner. I could feel it Overheating. It was crazy how hot it Got. When I first got the TTS and seen the temps Reaching 450-480 I knew if I left that tune it was just a matter of time before it all went south. Now it never goes over 300. I'm sure a knowledgeable Tuner could get it cooler and better Power, MPG the whole nine yards. When I got that Dynojet PowerVision I thought Now anyone using Dynojet Can use it to tune it. They still want me to buy a licence. I guess its Different. At 28.00 a can I was Tired of buying it the 1st time. I looked High and low for a local that sold Premium Non Ethonal. Guess it just isnt in high Demand or the man dont want us having it.

[kd]

It looks like you are from Kansas.  Give California Phil a call.  He may know a high quality tuner within reasonable range of where you are.  Maybe one of the vendors here can do it.   A real dyno tune by someone that is experienced and knows what he's doing will change your world.  You'll be glad you spent the money instead of guessing your way into a cooked engine.  That heat's not only effecting you.

[Ohio HD]

About 30 minutes away from Olathe, Ks is Joe Lyons. 

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/board,99.0.html

[kd]

About 30 minutes away from Olathe, Ks is Joe Lyons. 

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/board,99.0.html

  Joe IS your man.

[1workinman]

The Engine Temp is the main Reason I ran out and got a tuner. I could feel it Overheating. It was crazy how hot it Got. When I first got the TTS and seen the temps Reaching 450-480 I knew if I left that tune it was just a matter of time before it all went south. Now it never goes over 300. I'm sure a knowledgeable Tuner could get it cooler and better Power, MPG the whole nine yards. When I got that Dynojet PowerVision I thought Now anyone using Dynojet Can use it to tune it. They still want me to buy a licence. I guess its Different. At 28.00 a can I was Tired of buying it the 1st time. I looked High and low for a local that sold Premium Non Ethonal. Guess it just isnt in high Demand or the man dont want us having it.

I not sure how you check your engine temps but the way I keep tabs on my motor is with the engine oil temps . In both of my engines the 124 and the 143 both have the oil temp sending units in the pan and the gauge in the fairing that replaced the silly air temp gauge . What I noticed is that I installed the wards cooling fans and by using them and not doing a lot of in town driving or stop and go traffic my engine oil temps stay below 250 normally . That ridding 2 up also . Both bikes are tuned as I not interested in ridding them with out that done . Of course if I was to ride in 100 degrees day and idle in stop and go traffic in Dallas I be in real trouble but I never going to do that

[Admiral Akbar]

Ohio, where could one find the dynamic compression ratio calc. you posted?

On HTT

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,105065.msg1243982.html#msg1243982

Things to note.

It's not dynamic compression.  It's corrected compression.

The original spreadsheet was done by a guy named Maurice Riggins with the help of a unnamed mechanical engineering student to calculate the piston location correctly to get the corrected compression ratio.

I added the Cranking compression calculation referencing formulas in Mark's Handbook for Mechanical Engineers.

I like the open version better where you can reference the table that shows corrected CR / CCP based on crank degrees.  The diagram on right right is a nice addition tho.

[Ohio HD]

Ohio, where could one find the dynamic compression ratio calc. you posted?

On HTT

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,105065.msg1243982.html#msg1243982

Things to note.

It's not dynamic compression.  It's corrected compression.

The original spreadsheet was done by a guy named Maurice Riggins with the help of a unnamed mechanical engineering student to calculate the piston location correctly to get the corrected compression ratio.

I added the Cranking compression calculation referencing formulas in Mark's Handbook for Mechanical Engineers.

I like the open version better where you can reference the table that shows corrected CR / CCP based on crank degrees.  The diagram on right right is a nice addition tho.

Thanks for the history on this Max. I'll add that info to the sheet for additional disclosure.

You are correct the results are in static and corrected. Dynamic is as the motor runs through various RPM conditions I guess is a simple way to describe it. 

I'll do this, I'll add a note on the sheet for the sheet password for those so inclined to use it. I only locked it to keep less experienced Excel users from blowing up the sheet with formula typos and mistakes.

[Wookie3011]

The Engine Temp is the main Reason I ran out and got a tuner. I could feel it Overheating. It was crazy how hot it Got. When I first got the TTS and seen the temps Reaching 450-480 I knew if I left that tune it was just a matter of time before it all went south. Now it never goes over 300. I'm sure a knowledgeable Tuner could get it cooler and better Power, MPG the whole nine yards. When I got that Dynojet PowerVision I thought Now anyone using Dynojet Can use it to tune it. They still want me to buy a licence. I guess its Different. At 28.00 a can I was Tired of buying it the 1st time. I looked High and low for a local that sold Premium Non Ethonal. Guess it just isnt in high Demand or the man dont want us having it.

I not sure how you check your engine temps but the way I keep tabs on my motor is with the engine oil temps . In both of my engines the 124 and the 143 both have the oil temp sending units in the pan and the gauge in the fairing that replaced the silly air temp gauge . What I noticed is that I installed the wards cooling fans and by using them and not doing a lot of in town driving or stop and go traffic my engine oil temps stay below 250 normally . That ridding 2 up also . Both bikes are tuned as I not interested in ridding them with out that done . Of course if I was to ride in 100 degrees day and idle in stop and go traffic in Dallas I be in real trouble but I never going to do that

I use the reading from PowerVision and Also TTS Flight  I'm not exactly sure what they use to display these readings.
Did you install the sending Unit or is that factory. I would love more info on this. I have looked at the Mighty Mites and Jugs before as well as other's. I've seen the oil Dipsticks with digital readouts but would prefer a sending unit to the oil. I so very much appreciate all the information and love the information provided and shared within this Forum. I've learned so much and some still trying to understand. I use search all the time and Google stuff I dont. Thanks guys!

[Wookie3011]

Got the TTS-150 Cam. So let's talk Pushrods and lifters. I have read alot of information most pre 2010 about Harley Lifters and overall opinions to not use them. What lifters should I use? In by using this TTS150 Cams would it be better to have adjustable pushrods or use the perfect fit supplied in the Harley 110 to 117 Kit? Thanks.

[rigidthumper]

I like new lifters with new cams. The TTS150 uses stock pushrods and springs, so no need for perfect fit/adjustables. The 18401-03 Perfect Fit pushrod set that comes in the kit will put the cup of the plunger .030" farther down than stock, and some say that's actually quieter.
As far as lifters? S&S Premium are hard to beat, a little pricey, and offered by most of our board vendors.  WFO Larry (also a board vendor) sells good lifters too.

[Wookie3011]

I looked at WFO lifters. Should I get slow leak downs?

[Ohio HD]

Slow leak down would be good. Adding the pin oiling as well is money well spent.

2313SE

https://larrysmcymachineinc.square.site/product/2313se/1?cs=true

[Wookie3011]

Is that 159 per lifter or for a set of 4

[Coyote]

Is that 159 per lifter or for a set of 4

Set

[Wookie3011]

Ordering now and thanks

[Arseclown]

Surprised that nobody's said it and maybe that's because htt is often about getting the best out of things but the 117 kit out of the box fitted to the bike rides really well in my opinion and unless you're used to a big cube, high performing Harley it'll make you smile as it is. If I was installing from scratch I'd change lifters and maybe cam and head gasket but not much else.

[Wookie3011]

Surprised that nobody's said it and maybe that's because htt is often about getting the best out of things but the 117 kit out of the box fitted to the bike rides really well in my opinion and unless you're used to a big cube, high performing Harley it'll make you smile as it is. If I was installing from scratch I'd change lifters and maybe cam and head gasket but not much else.

That's pretty Much what I've been aiming for. I purchased the TTS-150 WFO larry's Lifters and Cometic .030 Head gasket.  Then gonna throw her on a Dyno. Later on I'm going to get a different seat and some 10-12" apes. Should be a fun ride. Good bang for the buck to. Oh and I'm doing the rocker housing .125 drill out while I'm In there.

[Ohio HD]

Since we're helping you spend your money...

These are an inexpensive addition that can only help and not hurt anything.


https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,87723.msg997428.html#msg997428


Or you can PM John here on HTT. 

[Arseclown]

Wookiee you're gonna be over the moon. My dyna has the 117 as installed by the dealer per purchase. Supermeg pipe and one of the average screaming eagle canned tunes and it goes bloody awesome as it is. I definitely wouldn't call it soft down low.

When it's time to do some work on it I have some modified mva heads to fit and will change out lifters and head gasket. Will get me somewhere between 10.5-10.8 static compression; can't remember exact details as I've forgotten the head specs and can't be bothered finding them right now.  Have to measure everything first anyway. Heads cost me a fair bit as not many good head work options for Harleys in Australia and costs a lot to buy in USA and ship back especially with our poor exchange rate. I'll probably keep the se259 cams in after failing to get my hands on gmr600 cams. Then again I might even sell the heads and just enjoy it for the beast it is right now as it has more grunt than I can regularly use on the street

[Wookie3011]

Since we're helping you spend your money...

These are an inexpensive addition that can only help and not hurt anything.


https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,87723.msg997428.html#msg997428


Or you can PM John here on HTT.

Already Got them sitting and waiting to install:) thanks for the heads up though.  I

[Wookie3011]

Wookiee you're gonna be over the moon. My dyna has the 117 as installed by the dealer per purchase. Supermeg pipe and one of the average screaming eagle canned tunes and it goes bloody awesome as it is. I definitely wouldn't call it soft down low.

When it's time to do some work on it I have some modified mva heads to fit and will change out lifters and head gasket. Will get me somewhere between 10.5-10.8 static compression; can't remember exact details as I've forgotten the head specs and can't be bothered finding them right now.  Have to measure everything first anyway. Heads cost me a fair bit as not many good head work options for Harleys in Australia and costs a lot to buy in USA and ship back especially with our poor exchange rate. I'll probably keep the se259 cams in after failing to get my hands on gmr600 cams. Then again I might even sell the heads and just enjoy it for the beast it is right now as it has more grunt than I can regularly use on the street

Should be pretty Hard to wipe that Chit eatin grin off my face=priceless. Dyna Huh? LowriderS? What the weight of those? Most guys get the 117 for the baggers. Some guys like me and you get it to bag on other bikes. The 110 in my fatboy is no slouch with the propipe and tune. It's going to be a constant investment in back tires but I'm ready. FatBoy S 749lbs that's of course Harleys weight.

[Wookie3011]

Since we're helping you spend your money...

These are an inexpensive addition that can only help and not hurt anything.


https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,87723.msg997428.html#msg997428


Or you can PM John here on HTT.

Already Got them sitting and waiting to install:) thanks for the heads up though.  I

I actually didnt realize there was 2 different manufacturers. The ones I got where from DK Customs. If I had known I obviously would have gotthem from HTT Distributionm

[Arseclown]

Hey wookie. Yeah my scoot is a dyna low rider s. Don't know how much it weighs but feels light like a sporty. Harleys before that have been softails and a road glide and it feels way lighter. Almost like a bmx bike compared to the road glide. That's why it feels like it rips all over and might be different to the statement of feeling soft down low like one might perceive on a heavier bagger with the 117 kit fitted out of the box.

Despite owning a road glide for a while here and loving it, baggers aren't as popular in Australia; mainly only among the older riders. We call them granny glides. People aged 20s-40s here typically ride softails and dynas. But they're all good and ride what you like unless you want to follow a flock like a sheep.

[Ohio HD]

Since we're helping you spend your money...

These are an inexpensive addition that can only help and not hurt anything.


https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,87723.msg997428.html#msg997428


Or you can PM John here on HTT.

Already Got them sitting and waiting to install:) thanks for the heads up though.  I

[Wookie3011]

Since we're helping you spend your money...

These are an inexpensive addition that can only help and not hurt anything.


https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,87723.msg997428.html#msg997428


Or you can PM John here on HTT.

Already Got them sitting and waiting to install:) thanks for the heads up though.  I

Well shoot, I've been reading and the ones I got are not from the original. Doubt there is much a difference but I ain't willing to bet my build on it. Anyways I'm going to get the Originals to at least pay where Credit is due. I hate it when entities will steal a Idea then release their own version and its usually substandard to the Original. Like 6.5 Grendel or 6.5 Creedmore. There is so many different Reamers out there for these calibers some based off different headspace bolts. A real "Potty mouth" storm. All along giving the Original Creator a bad rap for the product. Anyways that thumbs up should of been a middle finger with it. Thanks again

[Wookie3011]

To all the Totally Awesome Harley Techs and members of this Forum who gave me Critical advice and guidance thank you. I'm done with the build and it's amazing. I couldnt have done it without you all. Thanks!