another problem with older 5 speed trans in softail

Started by Raleigh111, March 25, 2020, 05:56:42 AM

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Raleigh111

Another problem with older 5 speed trans in softail. The neutral light only goes off in neutral and is on in all gears (backwards) . I think the switch was replaced with wrong one at some point. Was there not several different switches used over the years? It has the single wire going to it with a cap style connector.
Harleys are addicting and im out of money. Accepting donations! 120 132hp 146tq

Pirsch Fire Wagon

(-59) 1959  to 1997  - Single Pole

98 & Later - Two Pole

This all depends on the Transmission and Pillow Block Drum which may be aftermarket.
Tom

Raleigh111

 Was there 2 different types of single pole? I would think mine is backwards. I am dreading walking in to dealer to ask. I just need reverse of what I have.
Harleys are addicting and im out of money. Accepting donations! 120 132hp 146tq

turboprop

Quote from: Raleigh111 on March 26, 2020, 05:55:48 AM
Was there 2 different types of single pole? I would think mine is backwards. I am dreading walking in to dealer to ask. I just need reverse of what I have.

There are two types of switches for the '98 and later bikes. The later style switches are characterized by two electrical contacts. Your bike has the earlier style switch that is characterized by a single electrical connection. The later style was offered in two types, normally open and normally closed. The earlier switch that you have was only offered  (factory and aftermarket) in one style.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

Raleigh111

Quote from: turboprop on March 26, 2020, 08:27:08 AM
Quote from: Raleigh111 on March 26, 2020, 05:55:48 AM
Was there 2 different types of single pole? I would think mine is backwards. I am dreading walking in to dealer to ask. I just need reverse of what I have.

There are two types of switches for the '98 and later bikes. The later style switches are characterized by two electrical contacts. Your bike has the earlier style switch that is characterized by a single electrical connection. The later style was offered in two types, normally open and normally closed. The earlier switch that you have was only offered  (factory and aftermarket) in one style.

Thanks you. Thats what i was looking for..
Harleys are addicting and im out of money. Accepting donations! 120 132hp 146tq

Raleigh111

figured it out. Thanks turbo. Bike was wired for single style but had 2000 style shift drum. Installed 98a and tested with jumpers works. Now I just need to get 2 72405-98bk wires and splice one into existing wire and run other to ground. Thanks again
Harleys are addicting and im out of money. Accepting donations! 120 132hp 146tq

turboprop

Glad I could help. Best of luck with your project.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

Raleigh111

April 12, 2020, 08:48:41 AM #7 Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 11:38:07 AM by Raleigh111
I am pulling my hair out on this one. I originally pulled this tranny apart because the return spring broke and caused some damage to a few of the gears. My friend told me it never down shifted correct and often ended up in between gears. The neutral light indicator worked backwards as it would only go off when you were in neutral. I ordered a backwards neutral switch and have that part fixed but even after adjusting the shifter pawl every which way it still will not down shift correctly and ends up in between gears or neutral? I am thinking maybe it never had the correct shift drum installed as the switch was backwards or maybe i can shim the drum one way or another to get it to work correctly? Any ideas of where to go next would be much appreciated. It is a ultima case filled with harley parts and not 100% sure on shift drum but the switch i have in it now is the 98a switch and i had to add a ground to get it to work correctly.
Harleys are addicting and im out of money. Accepting donations! 120 132hp 146tq

turboprop

Remove the top cover and post a picture of the drum. Particularly the detent system. It will have either a plunger or a arm with a roller.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

Raleigh111

Quote from: turboprop on April 12, 2020, 05:15:36 PM
Remove the top cover and post a picture of the drum. Particularly the detent system. It will have either a plunger or a arm with a roller.
here you go
Harleys are addicting and im out of money. Accepting donations! 120 132hp 146tq

Raleigh111

Also notice when I down shift the arm will go past and fall down without cover on? If i manually shift through the gears on stand without motor running it seems to work okay. If i start the bike and run it it does not like to down "Potty mouth", often ends up in between gears. Works fine up shifting..
Harleys are addicting and im out of money. Accepting donations! 120 132hp 146tq

JW113

You said 2000 style shift drum? That appears to be '97 & earlier pillow blocks with the plunger detent. I don't believe those are interchangeable.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Raleigh111

Quote from: JW113 on April 16, 2020, 05:34:45 PM
You said 2000 style shift drum? That appears to be '97 & earlier pillow blocks with the plunger detent. I don't believe those are interchangeable.

-JW
Yes I was wrong. I think it is the older shift drum. I just put it back together again. It works fine on the stand if you go through the gears manually but if start the engine it does not want to down shift again. Why does it work on stand perfect with engine off? I am not sure?
Harleys are addicting and im out of money. Accepting donations! 120 132hp 146tq

JW113

Just a guess, but it if shifts up OK but does not shift down correctly, the pawl is not traveling as far as it should in the forward direction (down shift). Why work OK static but not OK when running? Friction and inertia.

Just my humble opinion, but it sounds to me like you have a combination of incompatible parts in that (seemingly) cobbled together transmission. You said "your friend said it never down shifted correctly", I would zero in on that. Being the very impatient dude that I am, if it were me I'd start perusing ebay and find another transmission that is 100% stock. I see them all the time, people pulling their stock 5 speed for a Baker or whatnot. Either that, or pull it apart and try to inventory every piece in it. You said Ultima trans case. My experience with Ultima parts is they tend to play well with only other Ultima parts. I had a hell of a time trying to use an Ultima evo engine case with stock HD engine parts. It didn't "just bolt together" and work, and like most people, I got zero tech support from Ultima.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

JW113

2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

kd

 :agree:  I would say that would just about wrap it up. 
KD

Raleigh111

Harleys are addicting and im out of money. Accepting donations! 120 132hp 146tq

Raleigh111

Harleys are addicting and im out of money. Accepting donations! 120 132hp 146tq

cheech

Quote from: Raleigh111 on April 17, 2020, 12:56:22 PM
need this kind
I'm pretty sure he's referring  you to buy the one in the link, then install the guts in yours.

JW113

I'm actually saying buy the whole darn transmission, and replace what you have. Since it not a stock case, any Raleigh doesn't really know what is inside the thing.

Raleigh, I don't see that you posted what year your bike is. Since you're posting in the TC section, am assuming it's a 2000 -2006 softail, before they went to 6 speed. Any 2000-2006 softail trans should work in your bike.

So that we are having a production conversation, what year bike are we talking about here? And why does your bike have an EVO style shift top?

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

cheech

Quote from: JW113 on April 17, 2020, 02:14:19 PM
Since you're posting in the TC section, am assuming it's a 2000 -2006 softail,

-JW
LOl, yeah I neglected what section we were in once he posted the pic of what he had. I guess since he thought it had a 2000 drum that's why he posted in Twincam.  :nix: