Big motors and starters question

[misfitJason]

I have been using my corona virus stay at home time for some experimentation. When I got my v111, a month or two before I installed a All Balls 1.4kw starter. I thought it would be a good addition for the new motor as my old oem starter was on it last leg.

Fast forward got the motor dialed in and all comfortable.  But I have always had starter stall like the acrs weren't working when cold. If I unplug the starter wire the acrs function absolutely fine and they are free. Plug the starter wire in and they don't want to function.

Somewhere I heard on here that the all balls starter takes more amperage and the acrs don't work well with that. That leads me to my corona time. I swapped back in the old oem starter. Damn does it start easy now. However, my oem starter gave up the ghost today and it died.

The major question now is what starter to get that will work well with what I've got. Any ideas?

Oh yeah and I installed an oil cooler with my free time and did some gardening.

[doctorevil]

Easy answer Terry components starters. They have an offer out for the 1.8 slugger late model starter for $350 public price. I never had one of there starters fail or been disappointed in there cranking ability.

[choseneasy]

A take off stock starter would probably do the trick as well- on the cheap.

[ThumperDeuce]

https://antigravitybatteries.com/productline/starter-batteries/restart-oem/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwpfHzBRCiARIsAHHzyZr3X6w_msjtx7Lz4R7MfHq4JlalwU_NwML5n_ermw4TV1GSMHSGdcsaAngYEALw_wcB

Would also cut down on some weight and probably lower your center of gravity a little.

[moose]

I used to click my starter once and then hit it to start.  on my 131 I installed compression releases

[IronButt70]

https://antigravitybatteries.com/productline/starter-batteries/restart-oem/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwpfHzBRCiARIsAHHzyZr3X6w_msjtx7Lz4R7MfHq4JlalwU_NwML5n_ermw4TV1GSMHSGdcsaAngYEALw_wcB

Would also cut down on some weight and probably lower your center of gravity a little.

Went to the link and did a battery search. Only thing that came up for my softail was years 91-99. 

[Ohio HD]

   


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[ThumperDeuce]

I use an anti gravity battery with my All Balls 1.7kw (?) starter with manual compression releases and Yooper cables.  Yes, it is a juice hog for sure.  I don't remember the technical reason other than the type of magnets they use.  If your not sure of which one to get, just give them a call and they will help you out.  You do need a special type of charger for it.
This is on a 120" engine set at 12.3:1 compression.

[IronButt70]

   


[attach=0,msg1339195]

Used the finder. Tried it again. Same results. 
Found the battery without the the finder. Prices for the same battery on EBay and Amazon are cheaper.

[biggzed]

Seems like you have verified what you suspected about the All Balls starter not working with ACR's. Instead of swapping out the starter, is there a way to wire the ACR's so they aren't on the starter circuit? What about adding one of those buttons that goes on the end of the starter? Would that separate the starter and ACR's so they would work together?

Zach

Somewhere I heard on here that the all balls starter takes more amperage and the acrs don't work well with that. That leads me to my corona time. I swapped back in the old oem starter. Damn does it start easy now. However, my oem starter gave up the ghost today and it died.

The major question now is what starter to get that will work well with what I've got. Any ideas?

[jmorton10]

I can describe what happened to me.

Originally, I built a 95" Underground Head motor with a Wood TW6-HG cam set/DTT ignition/Yooper cables/AllBalls 1.7 starter & manual compression releases. The damn thing kicked back so badly that I was getting to the point where I was actually riding it less.  I replaced the starter drive three times, replaced the compensator with the latest SE version etc.etc.etc.

I finally took the Wood cam set out & replaced it with Wild Thing TW 26's & the problem was gone. It lost some low end TQ but all the clatter of the Wood cams was gone & it became so easy to start it didn't even need the comp releases.

Now, I have an S&S 10.5 124" motor.  It has 640 EZ-Start cams/yooper cables & a stock Harley starter.  I have an Anti-Gravity battery that is so old they don't even list the model anymore.  When I bought it, I got their proprietary Lithium charger with it & plug it in when it is parked in my garage.  The battery wasn't cheap (it was so many years ago I forget exactly what I paid for it) but it was worth every penny.  It weighs almost nothing & the motor spins & starts like it has no plugs in it. It lights off so fast I can barely get my thumb off the button........

~John

[kd]

The new AntiGravity batteries are miles ahead of the older ones and probably the rest of the field.  I just bought the ATX30-HD 970 CCA and the charger they recommended. They have a Bluetooth device you can get that tracks the history of the charge and discharge which actually allows you to troubleshoot your starter draw using your phone. I just finished the charge on it last night and I haven't tried it yet. It weighs 7#.   They have a restart model and the one I have has Hi charge and low discharge protection. They have 3 years warranty.  I have dealt with them for years and can tell you their warranty and service is mind blowing.  I'm going to do a video of before and after.  My present is the new high output Yuasa GYZ 500 CCA and only a part season on it. On a tender all winter. 

I suggest you visit their site and spend some time reading.  You can call them and get tech advice so you can understand all of the options and make good choices..

[cheech]

Antigravity just had a 25% off last weekend also. Meant to get one. 

[kd]

Call em up and tell them you were going to order and got distracted. See if they'll extend the offer to you.  You may be surprised.   

[turboprop]

I have been using my corona virus stay at home time for some experimentation. When I got my v111, a month or two before I installed a All Balls 1.4kw starter. I thought it would be a good addition for the new motor as my old oem starter was on it last leg.

Fast forward got the motor dialed in and all comfortable.  But I have always had starter stall like the acrs weren't working when cold. If I unplug the starter wire the acrs function absolutely fine and they are free. Plug the starter wire in and they don't want to function.

Somewhere I heard on here that the all balls starter takes more amperage and the acrs don't work well with that. That leads me to my corona time. I swapped back in the old oem starter. Damn does it start easy now. However, my oem starter gave up the ghost today and it died.

The major question now is what starter to get that will work well with what I've got. Any ideas?

Oh yeah and I installed an oil cooler with my free time and did some gardening.

Define 'gave up the ghost and died'.

Seems like this is your fix. If it was the starter clutch, replace it with one from Spragg and be done with it. If it is electrical, buy a newer take off unit from a late model TC and swap out the output shaft with the one from your existing starter (if needed). Seems like a no brainer as they are inexpensive and you said it spun your 111" over very easily.

[misfitJason]

I have been using my corona virus stay at home time for some experimentation. When I got my v111, a month or two before I installed a All Balls 1.4kw starter. I thought it would be a good addition for the new motor as my old oem starter was on it last leg.

Fast forward got the motor dialed in and all comfortable.  But I have always had starter stall like the acrs weren't working when cold. If I unplug the starter wire the acrs function absolutely fine and they are free. Plug the starter wire in and they don't want to function.

Somewhere I heard on here that the all balls starter takes more amperage and the acrs don't work well with that. That leads me to my corona time. I swapped back in the old oem starter. Damn does it start easy now. However, my oem starter gave up the ghost today and it died.

The major question now is what starter to get that will work well with what I've got. Any ideas?

Oh yeah and I installed an oil cooler with my free time and did some gardening.

Define 'gave up the ghost and died'.

Seems like this is your fix. If it was the starter clutch, replace it with one from Spragg and be done with it. If it is electrical, buy a newer take off unit from a late model TC and swap out the output shaft with the one from your existing starter (if needed). Seems like a no brainer as they are inexpensive and you said it spun your 111" over very easily.

It got stuck out constantly starting and fried. That's interesting about he Twincam ones! I called around local and found several used evo ones for about fifty bucks but they are unknowns. I can get a rebuilt one for 210 local. Money is not the issue here though I just want the bike to start well

[misfitJason]

On a side note because you guys were talking about antigravity batteries.... I called antigravity when they were having the sale. I was curious about one for my softail. They told me not to buy one because it would sit in the oil tank (horseshoe) and they said it was too hot of a heat range for their batteries.

[ThumperDeuce]

I've been running them for about 10 years now without any problems.

[turboprop]

I have been using my corona virus stay at home time for some experimentation. When I got my v111, a month or two before I installed a All Balls 1.4kw starter. I thought it would be a good addition for the new motor as my old oem starter was on it last leg.

Fast forward got the motor dialed in and all comfortable.  But I have always had starter stall like the acrs weren't working when cold. If I unplug the starter wire the acrs function absolutely fine and they are free. Plug the starter wire in and they don't want to function.

Somewhere I heard on here that the all balls starter takes more amperage and the acrs don't work well with that. That leads me to my corona time. I swapped back in the old oem starter. Damn does it start easy now. However, my oem starter gave up the ghost today and it died.

The major question now is what starter to get that will work well with what I've got. Any ideas?

Oh yeah and I installed an oil cooler with my free time and did some gardening.

Define 'gave up the ghost and died'.

Seems like this is your fix. If it was the starter clutch, replace it with one from Spragg and be done with it. If it is electrical, buy a newer take off unit from a late model TC and swap out the output shaft with the one from your existing starter (if needed). Seems like a no brainer as they are inexpensive and you said it spun your 111" over very easily.

It got stuck out constantly starting and fried. That's interesting about he Twincam ones! I called around local and found several used evo ones for about fifty bucks but they are unknowns. I can get a rebuilt one for 210 local. Money is not the issue here though I just want the bike to start well

Thats the issue that needs addressed. Seems to me that is an oem starter worked great, well, you see where I am going here. Everything else is lipstick on a pig.

[RTMike]

I purchased two 720 CCA Antigravity battery from a supplier here in Canada the first one arrived with only 8 volts and the supplier would not warranty it so sent it back to Antigraviy they checked it recharged it and shipped it back and would not pay the shipping either way so that was an expensive battery.
Number two arrived with only 10 volts put it on there charger for 2 days and wouldn't start the bike,sent it back and that's it for Lithium batteries for me.This was a different supplier and they paid for return shipping and refund no problem.

[kd]

That's too bad Mike.  That is NOT my experience with AnyiGravity.  I think a call or email to the president (Scott) was in order.  He has been very available to me over the years even just to gather info.  He has directed his tech guy to help me too.

I want to add that depending on the charger you have, (I use the CTEK they recommended for my 97o CCA) if you actually read the manual, I was blown away at the actual charge time shown from a low battery. It is a low rate to protect it from overcharge damage.  The AntiGravity batteries now have low and high discharge protection and the service info tells you how to restart it and get it to accept a charge.  It WILL take a long time and the charger gets hot doing the work but it is normal and works.  I suspect that's what they did for you and probably why some service guy made the decision that you could have done it yourself if you read the instructions.  Poor communications is never helpful. 

[jmorton10]

That's too bad Mike.  That is NOT my experience with AnyiGravity.

It is not mine either.  I always call so I can talk directly to a tech guy, & my experience with them has been fantastic.  I know, I sound like a paid spokesman for them, but that is not the case at all.  I paid full price for the AG battery (it wasn't even on sale) I have been running in my 2007 124" high compression Roadking for years, & it has been the best battery I have ever owned hands down.

I bought the biggest spec battery they had at the time that would fit in my battery box & it has been amazing.  My garage where it is parked all winter has heat/insulation but I never turn on the heat unless I am working on a big job.  I always park my bike for the winter with a tender on it after filling it with gas & changing the oil.  I don't start it again until spring (upstate New York) unless we have a really warm day & the roads are not covered with salt & I can ride long enough to warm it up thoroughly.

This winter, I decided to test out how well it cranked over in really cold temps so one day when it was 12° out I decided to crank it over to see what happened. It definitely cranked slower than in warm weather, but it started right up.

~John

[No Cents]

   I've got a 124" engine with 11.3 compression and the 110" heads on it do have the factory compression releases. I'm still using the original stock starter and stock cables that came on the bike since I bought it new in 2008.
  This will be the fourth season with a Twin Power lithium- ion battery in it. In the past I would buy a new battery every other year. I fired it up a few weeks ago for the first time this year since I parked it back in early November. I did let it sit all winter with the battery maintainer plugged into it. It still spins the engine over like the plugs are out of it.   

[kd]

There are specific instructions with the AntiGravity batteries for cold weather starts.  In short, turn the key on and give it a few short starter bumps without full start-up cranking or just simply leave the lights for a couple of minutes or so to let the battery wake up (warm up) and hit the button.  It'll have full power.  The explanation is that cold adds resistance to the lithium ion and the activity from use warms it up and rectifies that.

[kd]

400 bucks for a battery....you people crack me up

The Lithium batteries offer much more cranking power in the same package size (up to 250 %) which for a modified engine means fewer starter and kick back i$$ue$.  Life span twice or more of the AGM less effective battery,  twice the warranty period, 70 % lighter (if important to a racer), and 100 % spill proof or acid free damage proof (can be used upside down or sideways or any angle).

Because of the life span the cost is actually the same.  Actually better when you figure in all of the other benefits you don't get with the AGM counterpart. You just pay it up front not again 2 years later. (based on known averages I and others experience with modern day batteries) .  Remember the pay me now or pay me later slogan?

[ThumperDeuce]

Although I haven't experienced any problems with my Deuce, I may go ahead and line my battery box with something like this:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/the-13500?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwsYb0BRCOARIsAHbLPhF7Jtc7DM9Xbb_VX86PUFoEYpm9ooi2DTxKejoCoR-QDKfAPIqT0GIaAoW6EALw_wcB

[misfitJason]

All balls got back with me with a list of things to check. I had previously checked all of them and they advised they think it may be the starter. They are sending me a RMA

I did pickup a new rebuilt oem starter from a local shop. I put that in this afternoon and she starts soooo easy now. 

[turboprop]

I did pickup a new rebuilt oem starter from a local shop. I put that in this afternoon and she starts soooo easy now.

I love happy endings.