Power Vision with Target tune or Auto tune Pro worth it?

Started by jordan1200, March 31, 2020, 04:06:38 AM

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jordan1200

I have a power vision and I am wondering if either the Target Tune or the Auto Tune Pro are worth the investment?
I own a 2010 SG stock 96 with a stage I and may go to a stage II. With only 20000 KM on it, I may do a 103 but not yet.
I want good performance and reliability but not at the cost of bad fuel mileage.
I like the idea of the constant modification to my tune, however, does running either of these add-ons to my Powervision increase the wear and tear on my ECM?
When using the Target Tune, can you weight changes it sees to the ECM? Same question about Taget Tune.
Pros and Cons between the Target Tune and Auto Tune Pro?
Thanks for your  input in advance everyone.

rbabos

Go with the TT. Pro is more for tuning and removal later. It runs at a default of 13.0 which is great for top end and then remove it. Finalize the tune with NB for the low end and cruise ranges for economy. More refined ve tables this way.  TT on the other hand can be set to run any desired AFR you like, idle to wfo. and target that. Seems a better overall tune can be had this way in a one shot deal. Given that , not sure why the Pro even exists any more. Neither will effect or harm the ECM. In reality, stock 96 the PV1 with either basic autotune or using MyTune and PV logs will give you a decent tune. Upgrades, then consider going to TT with widebands. Some have TT the cal and then went back to NB sensors as well to rid all that extra wiring.
Ron

aswracing

Quote from: rbabos on March 31, 2020, 05:55:32 AM
Pro is more for tuning and removal later. It runs at a default of 13.0 which is great for top end and then remove it. Finalize the tune with NB for the low end and cruise ranges for economy. More refined ve tables this way.  TT on the other hand can be set to run any desired AFR you like, idle to wfo. and target that. Seems a better overall tune can be had this way in a one shot deal.

This is mistaken. Auto tune pro only runs the motor at 13:1 during the auto tune session. When you export the learned values, it puts the AFR table back to where it was originally. It doesn't lock you into 13:1, it just has it there temporarily while it logs. Similar to how the auto tune basic temporarily puts the entire AFR table at 14.6 for logging, and restores it to it's original value when you export the learned values.

Coyote

I think your best bet is to tune the bike using ATPro, then, using ATBasic, get the closed loop areas and merge the tune files. Then remove the whole thing and run the bike using the stock sensors.


rbabos

Quote from: aswracing on March 31, 2020, 06:58:32 AM
Quote from: rbabos on March 31, 2020, 05:55:32 AM
Pro is more for tuning and removal later. It runs at a default of 13.0 which is great for top end and then remove it. Finalize the tune with NB for the low end and cruise ranges for economy. More refined ve tables this way.  TT on the other hand can be set to run any desired AFR you like, idle to wfo. and target that. Seems a better overall tune can be had this way in a one shot deal.

This is mistaken. Auto tune pro only runs the motor at 13:1 during the auto tune session. When you export the learned values, it puts the AFR table back to where it was originally. It doesn't lock you into 13:1, it just has it there temporarily while it logs. Similar to how the auto tune basic temporarily puts the entire AFR table at 14.6 for logging, and restores it to it's original value when you export the learned values.
So how does it match up the ve values from 13.1 to the orignal AFR in the cal? The bike runs off of VE with an AFR request. If turned back to the NB sensors the integrators will be a mile off as I see it. I like to understand, not disputing what you say. I do know from experience Basic autotune is flawed this way also. 700 CLB and -4 during autotune and cal reset the integrators were way over 10% rich. This was with only a change from 700-650 clb but timing had a big part in that as well when restet.  This is why I "Potty mouth" canned the basic and went with real clbs and real timing and used MyTune and the PV logs or realistic ve's.
Ron

Coyote

Ron, theoretically the VE's are the same regardless of AFR. Of course that's not exactly true in reality. This is why I tune the OL areas with the widebands and merge it with just the CL part of a narrow band tune.  This has worked well for me.

mayor

Quote from: Coyote on March 31, 2020, 08:02:28 AM
Ron, theoretically the VE's are the same regardless of AFR. Of course that's not exactly true in reality. This is why I tune the OL areas with the widebands and merge it with just the CL part of a narrow band tune.  This has worked well for me.
:up: this is how I look at this as well. 
warning, this poster suffers from bizarre delusions

rbabos

Quote from: mayor on March 31, 2020, 09:53:15 AM
Quote from: Coyote on March 31, 2020, 08:02:28 AM
Ron, theoretically the VE's are the same regardless of AFR. Of course that's not exactly true in reality. This is why I tune the OL areas with the widebands and merge it with just the CL part of a narrow band tune.  This has worked well for me.
:up: this is how I look at this as well. 
Quote from: Coyote on March 31, 2020, 08:02:28 AM
Ron, theoretically the VE's are the same regardless of AFR. Of course that's not exactly true in reality. This is why I tune the OL areas with the widebands and merge it with just the CL part of a narrow band tune.  This has worked well for me.
Interesting. I was always under the assumption the higher ve meant more fuel. If I change the clb from say 500 to 700 the ve increases and so does my fuel burn. :scratch: Then again, once building the ve tables, one can raise and lower the afrs, so yes, it makes sense then.
Ron

hulkss

I have a Power Vision tuner and the SE Smart Tune Pro wideband tuning module. I have a tune file for this combination from Fuel Moto. I have not run it yet so I can't say much, but I do know I am not the first to do this and Dynojet told me that the SE wideband module is compatible and the Target Tune mode works for tuning the bike. The PV tune file must be built from an SE wideband enabled tune. I just read it from the bike and sent it to FM.

I like the H-D module better than the Target Tune I've had in the past. The H-D module appears to be more robust without all the little screw terminals of the Target Tune. The H-D module uses the newer Bosch LSU 4.9 sensors, Target Tune uses older LSU 4.2 sensors.

This should be a good set-up for road or dyno tuning.

rbabos

Quote from: hulkss on March 31, 2020, 10:23:26 PM
I have a Power Vision tuner and the SE Smart Tune Pro wideband tuning module. I have a tune file for this combination from Fuel Moto. I have not run it yet so I can't say much, but I do know I am not the first to do this and Dynojet told me that the SE wideband module is compatible and the Target Tune mode works for tuning the bike. The PV tune file must be built from an SE wideband enabled tune. I just read it from the bike and sent it to FM.

I like the H-D module better than the Target Tune I've had in the past. The H-D module appears to be more robust without all the little screw terminals of the Target Tune. The H-D module uses the newer Bosch LSU 4.9 sensors, Target Tune uses older LSU 4.2 sensors.

This should be a good set-up for road or dyno tuning.
Interesting. I do like the robust design and fact it will work with PV modified cals. Sadly, this is only for Can bikes and not J1850, unless I'm missing some info.

Ron

Sunny Jim