Thinking of buying the new Harley Lithium Life 8ah Battery

[Ratman1640]

I'm thinking of buying the new Harley Lithium Life 8ah Battery for my 2013 glide with the 110 tire shredder kit on it and I was wondering if anyone has ran this battery and if there was any problems with it. Thanks! Mike

[FXDBI]

No experience with H-D lithium batteries, have had a antigravity for I bought years ago that has been flawless. They have a sale right now 25% off use code AG25.   Bob

[kd]

The one thing I have heard from a dealer manager is they are done if discharged too low.  Don't forget to turn off your switch or security if you go away for long. 

The Antigravity units now have battery management preventing under and overcharge damage, a restart / jumpstart feature, charge condition light and extra posts for your accessories. They have way higher CCA and Ah, a 3 year warranty and claim over twice the life span.  They are known for their customer service. I have the ATX-30-HD 970 CCA.  Check their web site for info. There's lots of stuff to see and a few selections.

https://antigravitybatteries.com/

https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/restart-oem/atx30-rs/

[Helmwurst]

I bought a new L-ion battery from Bike Master. So far so good. I also bought a matching charger for it. I picked it over the HD battery, because, it has more cranking power and it also was a little cheaper in price. I fought my original HD battery in my 17 RGS for over a year, even took the bike in for a no start issue and dealer tested battery and say a-ok. Short side of this story is, original battery was junk, stranded me, would not turn engine over, had to jump it, then 2 days to fully charge back up. New L-ion battery spins motor over and fires right up, plug in tender when parked and it is charged in about 2 mins.

[kd]

I forgot to mention the L-ion uses a different charger that charges in stages.  You need one of those or a dual purpose that will do both battery types.  That's an extra expense but IMO well worth it if it has a maintainer function. 

For not too much money I also have an AntiGravity Bluetooth Battery Tracker that monitors all of the battery functions and maintains a 31 day report on cranking, charging and use.  I can set it so if I walk within Bluetooth range of the bike it sends me an update on conditions on my phone or any other schedule I choose.   I just got one 

[jmorton10]

The one thing I have heard from a dealer manager is they are done if discharged too low.

I have not found this to be true at all.  My anti gravity LI battery has been flat ass dead at least three time now (last time was when my voltage regulator crapped out & I was trying to make it home before the battery went dead but didn't make it) & the battery charged back up & still works just fine one year later.

I have the LI charger that anti  gravity sells & hook it up when it's parked as it works as a tender also.  I have had the battery in there at least five years now, & it still cranks over my  HC 124 like the plugs are out.

~John

[Hossamania]

The one thing I have heard from a dealer manager is they are done if discharged too low.

I have not found this to be true at all.  My anti gravity LI battery has been flat ass dead at least three time now (last time was when my voltage regulator crapped out & I was trying to make it home before the battery went dead but didn't make it) & the battery charged back up & still works just fine one year later.

I have the LI charger that anti  gravity sells & hook it up when it's parked as it works as a tender also.  I have had the battery in there at least five years now, & it still cranks over my  HC 124 like the plugs are out.

~John

I believe he was referring to the Harley battery.

[kd]

The one thing I have heard from a dealer manager is they are done if discharged too low.

I have not found this to be true at all.  My anti gravity LI battery has been flat ass dead at least three time now (last time was when my voltage regulator crapped out & I was trying to make it home before the battery went dead but didn't make it) & the battery charged back up & still works just fine one year later.

I have the LI charger that anti  gravity sells & hook it up when it's parked as it works as a tender also.  I have had the battery in there at least five years now, & it still cranks over my  HC 124 like the plugs are out.

~John

I believe he was referring to the Harley battery.

Thanks Hoss.  It was poorly worded but that's what I meant.   The AG batteries are protected against over discharge so when it happens you can bring it back to life properly.

[CVORoadKing2013]

I bought one. Had a lot of trouble starting the bike below 45 deg. When the battery is coud it does not work well. You have to warm up the battery. I took mine out and it is sitting in the basement.

Couple companies have videos showing how to start a bike in colder weather with the lithium batteries.

[kd]

Turn the key on with the lights and put your jacket and gloves etc. on before you attempt to start.  When you go back to hit the button the battery has woke up and will spin it like it's a warm day.  Some will just bump the engine a couple of times or so and get the same results.  The battery probably came with those instructions.

[les]

I'm running this one in my 2011 Road King.

[Appowner]

Just to be clear, the Anti Grav units appear to be Lithium Ion (LiPo) while the HD unit is LiFe.  There is a difference!

The Anti Grav units have the protection circuitry in them simply because LiPo batteries do really bad things when over charged or discharged.  And they may not do it right away but wait until they have you in some remote place.  And then blow your bike up.  Yep!  LiPo are know for their abilities to start fires and even explode a bit if misused.

On the flip, LiFe don't.  But that means they don't need protection circuitry and so you can discharge them to destruction.  But at least they won't take you or your bike with them.

My other hobby, Radio Controlled model airplanes makes considerable use of both LiPo and LiFe.  And I've been witness to some spectacular model fires from the LiPo.

Now, would I use one from Anti Grav?  Yep!  As long as they had those protection circuits.
Would I use a LiPo without those circuits?  No Way!

[scott7d]

I had a lithium ion in my Road King and as someone mentioned, they definitely do not like starting up in cold weather. The method of letting it warm up is accurate. I would turn the switch and leave my head light on for a few minutes. It would still struggle a tad, but then the rest of the day it would be fine. No issues at all on warm days.

[Ratman1640]

Well I think I'm going to order one. Just called two Harley shops and one is in Kansas city and Has them but wont ship it because of the hazard thing and the other is in Oklahoma and they don't have one but will order one for me and have it next week which will work because I'm an hour from them living in southeast Kansas. You know .. the land of perfect nothingness lol. Thanks for all the information on this, it was very helpful also I will be buying the duel mode charger with it !! Thanks again !!!! Mike

[kd]

If you're in Kansas, give California Phil a call in Concordia.  He's in the vendor section here and I'll bet you won't be sorry you reached out to him.    

[cheech]

If you're in Kansas, give California Phil a call in Concordia.  He's in the vendor section here and I'll bet you won't be sorry you reached out to him.   

It's a huge indiscretion for anyone on this board to not buy from Phil!

[boooby1744]

Get a good charger and use it every 2 weeks,4S 5A.

[attach=0,msg1343618]

[jmorton10]

That is the same charger I use.

~John

[Grof]

Get a good charger and use it every 2 weeks,4S 5A.

[attach=0,msg1343618]

why not just leave it on bike connected , can it damage battery if it's connected all the time .
tnx
Grof

[boooby1744]

Grof, I'm sure you can. Just me,I see it green I just unplug and disconnect.

[Bikerscum]

Seems odd that that charger would say 12.8v, Antigravity lists a full charge @13.25v and I confirmed that with both of mine 

Maybe 'cause of the different battery type.

[CVORoadKing2013]

Turn the key on with the lights and put your jacket and gloves etc. on before you attempt to start.  When you go back to hit the button the battery has woke up and will spin it like it's a warm day.  Some will just bump the engine a couple of times or so and get the same results.  The battery probably came with those instructions.

The Harley Battery does not. I tried bumping the battery. I may have bumped to long a few times and it would pull the batter voltage so low it would reset the miles to empty.

[Hossamania]

It sounds like your battery needs a good charge. I'm not sure how you bump it over too long, it should just start if it is cranked over more than a few revolutions.

[thumper 823]

I have been using a battery Tender 3.5 lb one for about 4 years now.
They now make them to link to your cell phone to tell you what is going on!
This one has been to Sturgis twice.
Yes, Under 50 deg with 10.5 CR, it is a bit scary slow.
But anything after 50deg  the reward is super great!
Who needs another 30 lbs of crap to haul around?

[Coyote]

Cracks me up that they say you need a special charger for the battery but the same old generator/voltage regulator in the bike charges it just fine. 

[kd]

Cracks me up that they say you need a special charger for the battery but the same old generator/voltage regulator in the bike charges it just fine. 

The L-ion type charger limits the amount of current to a pre-set level until the battery reaches a pre-set voltage level. It has programmed steps.  The current then reduces as the battery becomes fully charged. This system allows fast charging without the risk of over-charging and is suitable for Li-ion and other battery types. 

This is a general explanation of how I know it.  I believe the vehicle charge system is regulated somewhat and at the same time is buffered off with the draw to run the vehicle and lights etc. The link below is more specific and in terms you may understand better than most.  I have a Battery Tracker device and have followed the steps on a graph. Having said that, I held off on a L-ion (AntiGravity) battery until the protection was built in.  I had a bit of advantage on the inside skinny because I got to know the president of the company after years of picking his brain at SEMA and encouraging him to consider Harley big engine applications.  He would tell me about the "next year" version and I would offer my thoughts and waited till I liked what they had.  This last year they included remote starter fobs for "restarting" dead batteries but left out the remote fob on the Harley batteries because they didn't sell enough yet.  They put them in the automotive line first.  I can say that my 970 CCA battery spins it over and has a low discharge protection that allows me to turn the battery back on and start the engine without any subsequent damage.

https://enerdrive.com.au/2017/11/29/can-charge-lithium-battery-lead-acid-charger/

[Coyote]

Yeah I figured the chargers were doing things the bike didn't do. Honestly, I haven't seen the need to have one so I haven't researched them much at all.

[kd]

On the first leg of a low battery charge when it's giving it a full hit, the charger I have gets uncomfortable to hold it's so warm.  My research says it's normal so I don't worry.  When it hits the next cycle it's more reasonable to hold (if you wanted to).

[thumper 823]

I just use a regular old-style battery charger.

[PoorUB]

I believe the vehicle charge system is regulated somewhat and at the same time is buffered off with the draw to run the vehicle and lights etc.

If the vehicle batter is low it is going to charge at what ever rate the charging system can throw at it. Certainly more amps than a Battery Tender. I wondered about it too.

I had some customer equipment I repaired, lithium ion batteries in it of some sort. The batteries were low and I charged them up with my Battery Tender. Maybe I screwed the pooch on them, but the factory charger looks like a cheap wall wart transformer. Plus it was about a year ago and the customer is still using the equipment regularly.

I honestly don't know crap about L-ion and won't worry about it either. A standard AGM battery works just fine for me.

[CVORoadKing2013]

It sounds like your battery needs a good charge. I'm not sure how you bump it over too long, it should just start if it is cranked over more than a few revolutions.

Battery was fully charged. Bumping to long it would pull the voltage down to just about nothing. Took the battery out and replaced it with a normal battery and have not had a problem since.

[thumper 823]

As I understand these - or at least the rumors  -if they get too low they will not charge without a special charger.
BUT
As understand them, - they can be tricked into charging if too low by hooking any (same voltage) battery into the circuit to be charged also.
Charging two at once makes it happen.
I guess google is your friend?
IDK
I did buy a super-duper charger kit for all the electric tools and what all here.
It did revive a lawnmower battery that was really dead.
SO there is some truth to "special" as i did try to charge it with a regular charger and nothing happened, - for days.

[OldMike]

I'm on my 4th bike using a Lithium battery. This is my third Shorai battery, never had an issue, obviously.
I use a selectable Battery Tender charger.
https://www.amazon.com/Deltran-Battery-flooded-lithium-022-0199-DL-WH/dp/B06X9GGNZC/ref=psdc_15707061_t1_B071L5MBZT

[Appowner]

I just use a regular old-style battery charger.

I wouldn't! 

While a regular lead acid charger will charge it.  It won't charge it correctly.  Nor will it detect an imbalance between the cells and so set you up for a little fire.  And it probably won't regulate the charge current properly, i.e. start at a low current until a certain voltage is reached.  Too much current too soon can damage one or more cells.  The damage is usually an internal short in a cell which in turn causes the remaining cells to draw more current which then overheats them and damages more cells.  Eventually the whole thing gets hot enough to catch fire.  It does so in a mini explosion not unlike a pile of flash or gun powder being touched off.  However, water fire extinguishers will not put it out and it is literally too hot to handle.

One thing to understand is a Lithium battery (like most battery packs) is comprised of several individual cells (the 4S, 6S etc designations).  But unlike a lead acid, the proper way to charge a Lithium is each cell individually.  A lithium charger charges the cells individually yet all at once.  It also monitors the status of each cell checking to ensure they are ALL within parameters.  Should one cell not make the grade, the charger will stop charging the entire pack as a safety measure.

My other hobby is radio controlled model airplanes.  Lithium batteries have become very popular in the last 10 plus years for running the radios but also electric motors vice IC engines.  A lot of modelers had similar attitudes to these batteries to what we find here.  Early on there were a lot models lost to battery fires.  Quite a few cars with models in the back were also lost.  As well as some garages and even some houses.  All due to mis-handling and mis-charging these batteries.  And some of these models can run more than a new Harley.  You still hear of a battery fire now and then but not as many as there were.  The hobby is learning.

Do a search online for Lithium Battery fires.  The videos are eye openers.

[Appowner]

Here's a video showing what and why things can happen.  While it deals with phone batteries, the ones in our bikes are really no different.  Just bigger!

https://youtu.be/25_DDueTgiM

[smoserx1]

I swear I thought I saw a post recently on this website where someone bought this same 8ah battery and had a severe fire on the way home.  Something about one of the terminals shorting internally.  Can't seem to find it now, or maybe it was somewhere else.

[Hossamania]

I swear I thought I saw a post recently on this website where someone bought this same 8ah battery and had a severe fire on the way home.  Something about one of the terminals shorting internally.  Can't seem to find it now, or maybe it was somewhere else.

That post got pulled early on.
Someone had mentioned that regular chargers have a desulphate cycle after the battery is charged, lithium batteries do not need or play well with that phase of charging. Litium specific chargers do not have that cycle. The system on the motorcycle does not have a desulphate phase, therefore it works with the lithium batteries.

[thumper 823]

How is it a charging system on the vehicle will charge the battery just fine,
but if you charge it remotely it needs a special charger?
I do charge my lithium a couple of times during the winter with a regular cheap charger,
but all summer long it lives off the bike charging system.

i smell bull crap.

[Rusticwater]

Burt Rutan had a saying to the effect that "the technology you leave out cannot fail you."

I don't consider my Harley a high tech device, anything but.

So the more "fine print" and caveats I read about these high tech circuitry lithium batteries, the more inclined I am to never use them on my Dyna.

Case in point, Harley's corporate online store has removed all references to their Harley branded lithium batteries being compatible with the Dyna family. Now the 2020 GMA catalog says they are, so I called them this week to ask about the descrepency and they didn't have a convincing answer other than it's not really "their store" it's managed by a third party.

And BTW I was also told that a Dyna is the same as a Softail...by Harley corporate customer service. Well, OK then!

Now Antigavity Batteries has some interesting reading on their website HERE under the "What can damage your Lithium Batteries" section. I encourage you to read it for yourselves and draw your own conclusions especially with the warnings about voltage regulators, custom and modified bikes, etc.

And yes, part of that section specifically says not to use a lead-acid charger.

[hulkss]

Just to be clear, the Anti Grav units appear to be Lithium Ion (LiPo) while the HD unit is LiFe.

From anti-gravity site: "We use Lithium Iron Phosphate also called LifePo4"

[kd]

I have had a personal contact relationship with the president of AntiGravity Batteries for years. In that time I discussed and followed the careful development and testing of their motorcycle batteries before purchasing my 970 CCA version.  I am confident Scott has considered the end user's best interests by incorporating features that other companies do not. You get what you pay for in batteries.  I have seen independent test / comparisons that rate their battery products the highest and usually their testing shows they produce more power than claimed.  Having said all of that, I am not associated with AntiGravity other than meeting the president at SEMA years ago and having the opportunity to discuss and offer input throughout the motorcycle batteries.  I do have several of their products and did have cause to claim warranty on a jumpstart battery once that went uncontested on my word alone.  I share this only to benefit HTT members.

I was told that Antigravity product information is to benefit / protect the user and it protects the company by giving clear safe instructions that also enhance the user's experience and the life of the battery.  They also offer great tech phone and online service if you need to be clear on anything instead of listening to the coffee shop talkers. Much of their business is by word of mouth from satisfied customers.

[cheech]

Now Antigavity Batteries has some interesting reading on their website HERE under the "What can damage your Lithium Batteries" section. I encourage you to read it for yourselves and draw your own conclusions especially with the warnings about voltage regulators, custom and modified bikes, etc.

Thanks for posting that link as I'm interested in a lithium battery at the moment and it prompted me to do a little research and discover some misinformation in this thread. 
First question in that link says Antigravity batteries are indeed Lithium Iron and people in this thread are saying they are Lithium Ion!!
Which is both correct!
This thread has Lithium Ion and Lithium Iron as 2 battery types though. Lithium Iron is a type of Lithium Ion battery!

This Very Informative Link is a good read.
Lithium Iron which The Antigravity batteries are, are one of the safest type of Lithium Ion batteries. Good thermal stability! The article states "one of the safest Lithium Ions".  Note the article has thermal runaway figures.

Also Here is more good reading on Lithiums.
It is article BU-808. On the left menu notice articles BU-808 through BU-810 regarding lithium also.

[cheech]

Just to be clear, the Anti Grav units appear to be Lithium Ion (LiPo) while the HD unit is LiFe.

From anti-gravity site: "We use Lithium Iron Phosphate also called LifePo4"

Exactly, I started my reply then got dragged into lunch before I could finish.

[boooby1744]

4 years on my Twin Power Lithium. I use the Optimate 4s 5a charger. Works great,I won't go back to an AGM.

[Ratman1640]

Right on coyote !! I've been thinking the same thing !!!

[thumper 823]

https://www.batterytender.com/batteries/power-sport-lithium-batteries


As I stated -switched to Battery tender "Lithium" about 4 years ago and never looked back.
Why drag 30 lbs of extra battery around?
Esp us that is the wannabee performance type?
Anytime one can dump 30 lbs is a no brainer!
It weighs 3.5 lbs !
We spend $$$$$$$$on engine parts??, the drop of 30 lbs is so simple!

This reminds me of the -
radial tire argument
The power steering argument
power brake argument
And every other technical change argument that has come along.
There are some that will drag their feet.
You all ever hear of CF?  (carbon fiber)
Believe me, they will be the standard for wheels in the future.
I would be on them RIGHT now ....however, 3K a copy is a chunk even for me.

[PoorUB]

30 pounds? The OEM battery weighs  under 20 pounds so at best you shaved off 15 pounds. With an a Limited you just trimed off 1-1/2 percent.

Go on a diet. It will do you and the bike good!

[kd]

Shipping weight is 27 #.  My 970 CCA lithium is 7 pounds.

[thumper 823]

30 pounds? The OEM battery weighs  under 20 pounds so at best you shaved off 15 pounds. With an a Limited you just trimed off 1-1/2 percent.

Go on a diet. It will do you and the bike good!

I did not know I was that fat!  LOL
But seriously (and you know this) it is the some of all things or in this case the less of all things.
Over here in the aircraft world, we have a saying  "take care of the ounces and the pounds will take care of themselves".
So a skinny Batt is a nice deletion to the whole mix.
CF swing arms, wheels, what was tin parts  etc etc all adds dwn.
IF......I dont have a major malfunction this year I will have CF wheels for the next Sturgis run.
That is my goal.
You all are allowed to do what you like
Carry on.

[PoorUB]

Shipping weight is 27 #.  My 970 CCA lithium is 7 pounds.

Shipping weight is one thing, actual weight is another. Even so I found another OEM replacement that is 22 pounds subtract your 7 pounds and guess what? Still 15 pounds difference. I couldn't find anything certain for the OEM battery. Maybe it is 20 pounds difference, but not the 30 pounds mentioned.

Now I understand if you are building a light bike for racing or just ripping up the streets and you want to trim some weight, or have a high compression engine that needs a killer battery, but on a basically stock touring rig that weighs 900+ pounds I really don't care what the battery weighs. Even more so when the rider is 50 pounds over weight!

Now if you are ripping up a Dyna with a big engine, BST wheels and a bunch of other weight reducing items I get it, but not on a basically stock stock Harley.

[PoorUB]

30 pounds? The OEM battery weighs  under 20 pounds so at best you shaved off 15 pounds. With an a Limited you just trimed off 1-1/2 percent.

Go on a diet. It will do you and the bike good!

I did not know I was that fat!  LOL
But seriously (and you know this) it is the some of all things or in this case the less of all things.
Over here in the aircraft world, we have a saying  "take care of the ounces and the pounds will take care of themselves".
So a skinny Batt is a nice deletion to the whole mix.
CF swing arms, wheels, what was tin parts  etc etc all adds dwn.
IF......I dont have a major malfunction this year I will have CF wheels for the next Sturgis run.
That is my goal.
You all are allowed to do what you like
Carry on.

I understand your desire to shave weight, trust me I get it. If you are willing to spend the money on CF wheels, then I agree the weight is an issue. It isn't for 95% of the riders on their 900 pound Hog!

[kd]

Well I guess I'm a 5%er then.  Of course the 970 CCA (48 Ah) with over 11:1 is nice too.   

[boooby1744]

i weighed my stock battery,about 21.5,the Twin Power was about 5.3. i tried to get a few pounds off,too. New wagon wheels,lyndall composite discs and a  street stalker plastic fender on the front. Got rid of the rear bumper,plain fat rubber pegs replaced the pass.footboards. 2-1  saved quite a bit along with a whopping 1.5 lbs with a CCE aluminum top tree.  I installed ceramic wheel bearings and add it all up,it feels good and way easier topuh around.