Thinking of buying the new Harley Lithium Life 8ah Battery

[kd]

Cracks me up that they say you need a special charger for the battery but the same old generator/voltage regulator in the bike charges it just fine. 

The L-ion type charger limits the amount of current to a pre-set level until the battery reaches a pre-set voltage level. It has programmed steps.  The current then reduces as the battery becomes fully charged. This system allows fast charging without the risk of over-charging and is suitable for Li-ion and other battery types. 

This is a general explanation of how I know it.  I believe the vehicle charge system is regulated somewhat and at the same time is buffered off with the draw to run the vehicle and lights etc. The link below is more specific and in terms you may understand better than most.  I have a Battery Tracker device and have followed the steps on a graph. Having said that, I held off on a L-ion (AntiGravity) battery until the protection was built in.  I had a bit of advantage on the inside skinny because I got to know the president of the company after years of picking his brain at SEMA and encouraging him to consider Harley big engine applications.  He would tell me about the "next year" version and I would offer my thoughts and waited till I liked what they had.  This last year they included remote starter fobs for "restarting" dead batteries but left out the remote fob on the Harley batteries because they didn't sell enough yet.  They put them in the automotive line first.  I can say that my 970 CCA battery spins it over and has a low discharge protection that allows me to turn the battery back on and start the engine without any subsequent damage.

https://enerdrive.com.au/2017/11/29/can-charge-lithium-battery-lead-acid-charger/

[Coyote]

Yeah I figured the chargers were doing things the bike didn't do. Honestly, I haven't seen the need to have one so I haven't researched them much at all.

[kd]

On the first leg of a low battery charge when it's giving it a full hit, the charger I have gets uncomfortable to hold it's so warm.  My research says it's normal so I don't worry.  When it hits the next cycle it's more reasonable to hold (if you wanted to).

[thumper 823]

I just use a regular old-style battery charger.

[PoorUB]

I believe the vehicle charge system is regulated somewhat and at the same time is buffered off with the draw to run the vehicle and lights etc.

If the vehicle batter is low it is going to charge at what ever rate the charging system can throw at it. Certainly more amps than a Battery Tender. I wondered about it too.

I had some customer equipment I repaired, lithium ion batteries in it of some sort. The batteries were low and I charged them up with my Battery Tender. Maybe I screwed the pooch on them, but the factory charger looks like a cheap wall wart transformer. Plus it was about a year ago and the customer is still using the equipment regularly.

I honestly don't know crap about L-ion and won't worry about it either. A standard AGM battery works just fine for me.

[CVORoadKing2013]

It sounds like your battery needs a good charge. I'm not sure how you bump it over too long, it should just start if it is cranked over more than a few revolutions.

Battery was fully charged. Bumping to long it would pull the voltage down to just about nothing. Took the battery out and replaced it with a normal battery and have not had a problem since.

[thumper 823]

As I understand these - or at least the rumors  -if they get too low they will not charge without a special charger.
BUT
As understand them, - they can be tricked into charging if too low by hooking any (same voltage) battery into the circuit to be charged also.
Charging two at once makes it happen.
I guess google is your friend?
IDK
I did buy a super-duper charger kit for all the electric tools and what all here.
It did revive a lawnmower battery that was really dead.
SO there is some truth to "special" as i did try to charge it with a regular charger and nothing happened, - for days.

[OldMike]

I'm on my 4th bike using a Lithium battery. This is my third Shorai battery, never had an issue, obviously.
I use a selectable Battery Tender charger.
https://www.amazon.com/Deltran-Battery-flooded-lithium-022-0199-DL-WH/dp/B06X9GGNZC/ref=psdc_15707061_t1_B071L5MBZT

[Appowner]

I just use a regular old-style battery charger.

I wouldn't! 

While a regular lead acid charger will charge it.  It won't charge it correctly.  Nor will it detect an imbalance between the cells and so set you up for a little fire.  And it probably won't regulate the charge current properly, i.e. start at a low current until a certain voltage is reached.  Too much current too soon can damage one or more cells.  The damage is usually an internal short in a cell which in turn causes the remaining cells to draw more current which then overheats them and damages more cells.  Eventually the whole thing gets hot enough to catch fire.  It does so in a mini explosion not unlike a pile of flash or gun powder being touched off.  However, water fire extinguishers will not put it out and it is literally too hot to handle.

One thing to understand is a Lithium battery (like most battery packs) is comprised of several individual cells (the 4S, 6S etc designations).  But unlike a lead acid, the proper way to charge a Lithium is each cell individually.  A lithium charger charges the cells individually yet all at once.  It also monitors the status of each cell checking to ensure they are ALL within parameters.  Should one cell not make the grade, the charger will stop charging the entire pack as a safety measure.

My other hobby is radio controlled model airplanes.  Lithium batteries have become very popular in the last 10 plus years for running the radios but also electric motors vice IC engines.  A lot of modelers had similar attitudes to these batteries to what we find here.  Early on there were a lot models lost to battery fires.  Quite a few cars with models in the back were also lost.  As well as some garages and even some houses.  All due to mis-handling and mis-charging these batteries.  And some of these models can run more than a new Harley.  You still hear of a battery fire now and then but not as many as there were.  The hobby is learning.

Do a search online for Lithium Battery fires.  The videos are eye openers.

[Appowner]

Here's a video showing what and why things can happen.  While it deals with phone batteries, the ones in our bikes are really no different.  Just bigger!

https://youtu.be/25_DDueTgiM

[smoserx1]

I swear I thought I saw a post recently on this website where someone bought this same 8ah battery and had a severe fire on the way home.  Something about one of the terminals shorting internally.  Can't seem to find it now, or maybe it was somewhere else.

[Hossamania]

I swear I thought I saw a post recently on this website where someone bought this same 8ah battery and had a severe fire on the way home.  Something about one of the terminals shorting internally.  Can't seem to find it now, or maybe it was somewhere else.

That post got pulled early on.
Someone had mentioned that regular chargers have a desulphate cycle after the battery is charged, lithium batteries do not need or play well with that phase of charging. Litium specific chargers do not have that cycle. The system on the motorcycle does not have a desulphate phase, therefore it works with the lithium batteries.

[thumper 823]

How is it a charging system on the vehicle will charge the battery just fine,
but if you charge it remotely it needs a special charger?
I do charge my lithium a couple of times during the winter with a regular cheap charger,
but all summer long it lives off the bike charging system.

i smell bull crap.

[Rusticwater]

Burt Rutan had a saying to the effect that "the technology you leave out cannot fail you."

I don't consider my Harley a high tech device, anything but.

So the more "fine print" and caveats I read about these high tech circuitry lithium batteries, the more inclined I am to never use them on my Dyna.

Case in point, Harley's corporate online store has removed all references to their Harley branded lithium batteries being compatible with the Dyna family. Now the 2020 GMA catalog says they are, so I called them this week to ask about the descrepency and they didn't have a convincing answer other than it's not really "their store" it's managed by a third party.

And BTW I was also told that a Dyna is the same as a Softail...by Harley corporate customer service. Well, OK then!

Now Antigavity Batteries has some interesting reading on their website HERE under the "What can damage your Lithium Batteries" section. I encourage you to read it for yourselves and draw your own conclusions especially with the warnings about voltage regulators, custom and modified bikes, etc.

And yes, part of that section specifically says not to use a lead-acid charger.

[hulkss]

Just to be clear, the Anti Grav units appear to be Lithium Ion (LiPo) while the HD unit is LiFe.

From anti-gravity site: "We use Lithium Iron Phosphate also called LifePo4"

[kd]

I have had a personal contact relationship with the president of AntiGravity Batteries for years. In that time I discussed and followed the careful development and testing of their motorcycle batteries before purchasing my 970 CCA version.  I am confident Scott has considered the end user's best interests by incorporating features that other companies do not. You get what you pay for in batteries.  I have seen independent test / comparisons that rate their battery products the highest and usually their testing shows they produce more power than claimed.  Having said all of that, I am not associated with AntiGravity other than meeting the president at SEMA years ago and having the opportunity to discuss and offer input throughout the motorcycle batteries.  I do have several of their products and did have cause to claim warranty on a jumpstart battery once that went uncontested on my word alone.  I share this only to benefit HTT members.

I was told that Antigravity product information is to benefit / protect the user and it protects the company by giving clear safe instructions that also enhance the user's experience and the life of the battery.  They also offer great tech phone and online service if you need to be clear on anything instead of listening to the coffee shop talkers. Much of their business is by word of mouth from satisfied customers.

[cheech]

Now Antigavity Batteries has some interesting reading on their website HERE under the "What can damage your Lithium Batteries" section. I encourage you to read it for yourselves and draw your own conclusions especially with the warnings about voltage regulators, custom and modified bikes, etc.

Thanks for posting that link as I'm interested in a lithium battery at the moment and it prompted me to do a little research and discover some misinformation in this thread. 
First question in that link says Antigravity batteries are indeed Lithium Iron and people in this thread are saying they are Lithium Ion!!
Which is both correct!
This thread has Lithium Ion and Lithium Iron as 2 battery types though. Lithium Iron is a type of Lithium Ion battery!

This Very Informative Link is a good read.
Lithium Iron which The Antigravity batteries are, are one of the safest type of Lithium Ion batteries. Good thermal stability! The article states "one of the safest Lithium Ions".  Note the article has thermal runaway figures.

Also Here is more good reading on Lithiums.
It is article BU-808. On the left menu notice articles BU-808 through BU-810 regarding lithium also.

[cheech]

Just to be clear, the Anti Grav units appear to be Lithium Ion (LiPo) while the HD unit is LiFe.

From anti-gravity site: "We use Lithium Iron Phosphate also called LifePo4"

Exactly, I started my reply then got dragged into lunch before I could finish.

[boooby1744]

4 years on my Twin Power Lithium. I use the Optimate 4s 5a charger. Works great,I won't go back to an AGM.

[Ratman1640]

Right on coyote !! I've been thinking the same thing !!!

[thumper 823]

https://www.batterytender.com/batteries/power-sport-lithium-batteries


As I stated -switched to Battery tender "Lithium" about 4 years ago and never looked back.
Why drag 30 lbs of extra battery around?
Esp us that is the wannabee performance type?
Anytime one can dump 30 lbs is a no brainer!
It weighs 3.5 lbs !
We spend $$$$$$$$on engine parts??, the drop of 30 lbs is so simple!

This reminds me of the -
radial tire argument
The power steering argument
power brake argument
And every other technical change argument that has come along.
There are some that will drag their feet.
You all ever hear of CF?  (carbon fiber)
Believe me, they will be the standard for wheels in the future.
I would be on them RIGHT now ....however, 3K a copy is a chunk even for me.

[PoorUB]

30 pounds? The OEM battery weighs  under 20 pounds so at best you shaved off 15 pounds. With an a Limited you just trimed off 1-1/2 percent.

Go on a diet. It will do you and the bike good!

[kd]

Shipping weight is 27 #.  My 970 CCA lithium is 7 pounds.

[thumper 823]

30 pounds? The OEM battery weighs  under 20 pounds so at best you shaved off 15 pounds. With an a Limited you just trimed off 1-1/2 percent.

Go on a diet. It will do you and the bike good!

I did not know I was that fat!  LOL
But seriously (and you know this) it is the some of all things or in this case the less of all things.
Over here in the aircraft world, we have a saying  "take care of the ounces and the pounds will take care of themselves".
So a skinny Batt is a nice deletion to the whole mix.
CF swing arms, wheels, what was tin parts  etc etc all adds dwn.
IF......I dont have a major malfunction this year I will have CF wheels for the next Sturgis run.
That is my goal.
You all are allowed to do what you like
Carry on.

[PoorUB]

Shipping weight is 27 #.  My 970 CCA lithium is 7 pounds.

Shipping weight is one thing, actual weight is another. Even so I found another OEM replacement that is 22 pounds subtract your 7 pounds and guess what? Still 15 pounds difference. I couldn't find anything certain for the OEM battery. Maybe it is 20 pounds difference, but not the 30 pounds mentioned.

Now I understand if you are building a light bike for racing or just ripping up the streets and you want to trim some weight, or have a high compression engine that needs a killer battery, but on a basically stock touring rig that weighs 900+ pounds I really don't care what the battery weighs. Even more so when the rider is 50 pounds over weight!

Now if you are ripping up a Dyna with a big engine, BST wheels and a bunch of other weight reducing items I get it, but not on a basically stock stock Harley.