Rebuild Bottom End 1970s 74in Shovelhead

[tinkering]

Calgary, Canada
1976 FLH 74CID
Whole bike in pieces.

I'm starting with the bottom end now. I was thinking about doing the bearings etc. and true and balance myself, unless I can't find the time. I can't remember if it was line bored last time or not. Is line boring absolutely required? What about all the HD motors that went together before we had access to all that?

[Ohio HD]

We've always had the tools to line hone the pinion bearing race. Harley has used this method as long as there have been V-Twins. I've never replaced a set of bearings without first honing the race round, and in line with the Timken bore. Then see what oversize rollers are needed.


[attach=0]

[tinkering]

I was thinking about the old prairie dogs stuck on the farm in the old days who didn't have any of those tools. How much is the honer etc? I would like to study up on the line bore process. Do you know if there is a good article or YouTube video that lays it all out nice? I don't want to bother you with that much time.
Thanks

[tinkering]

[attach=0]

[Ohio HD]

Well, to be honest, how that set of wheels looks, tells me the race should probably be replaced. I would bet it's rusted and pitted. The pinion rollers won't have much life if they're installed in a poor environment.

The factory service manuals go into detail on line honing, it's not very difficult to do. If you don't want to buy the tool, take it to some one who has one, after you have a new pinion shaft, sprocket shaft and crank pin in the cleaned up flywheels. The rods will need to be reconditioned as well. If you don't have access to the tools to precisely measure, and to hone the races (rods and pinion) I'd honestly take it to one that does. 

[Ohio HD]

Also 1970 had some issues with the pinion and sprocket shaft tapers in the flywheels. Not allowing a good truing of the wheels. Sometimes lapping the tapers fixed that, sometimes new wheels were needed.

[fbn ent]

Well, to be honest, how that set of wheels looks, tells me the race should probably be replaced. I would bet it's rusted and pitted. The pinion rollers won't have much life if they're installed in a poor environment.

The factory service manuals go into detail on line honing, it's not very difficult to do. If you don't want to buy the tool, take it to some one who has one, after you have a new pinion shaft, sprocket shaft and crank pin in the cleaned up flywheels. The rods will need to be reconditioned as well. If you don't have access to the tools to precisely measure, and to hone the races (rods and pinion) I'd honestly take it to one that does.

   No tools + no experience = a problematic engine needing a teardown. Experience in 5 piece cranks is a necessity. I'd get a time tested friend or shop to do the cases/crank....

[Hybredhog]

   From what I'm seeing, your going to be way out of time, money & patience if you take that on yourself. You'd probably save money by just buying a new S&S crank (about $1200), as you'll need shafts, probably rods, bearings & bushing, ect.... Another issue could be the cases, the casted in races need to be checked for looseness let alone honing, do I hear Darkhorse calling. With something that rusty, odds are virtually every steel part in that motor is toast, and that doesn't even address aluminum fatigue. I'd be taking a glance at a  create engine just to keep things in prospective. But if your stubborn, and or have deep pockets, have fun.

[JW113]

 

Especially about the case insert. My shop guy says he can't remember working on an old Shovelhead that didn't have the insert loose in the case. Saw a cool article by a guy that installs a Timken conversion for Twin Cams into Shovelheads to fix that problem.

-JW

[Buglet]

   If you want a good job find some one with the Sunnen set up to do the cases. There's no to many shops the in know of that of that has the Sunnen set up.

[tinkering]

Well, to be honest, how that set of wheels looks, tells me the race should probably be replaced. I would bet it's rusted and pitted. The pinion rollers won't have much life if they're installed in a poor environment.

The factory service manuals go into detail on line honing, it's not very difficult to do. If you don't want to buy the tool, take it to some one who has one, after you have a new pinion shaft, sprocket shaft and crank pin in the cleaned up flywheels. The rods will need to be reconditioned as well. If you don't have access to the tools to precisely measure, and to hone the races (rods and pinion) I'd honestly take it to one that does.

I have the shop manual. I was expecting to replace all or most of the bearings, races, and bushings etc.. I never thought of the shafts needing it too but all of them would be rusty too I would agree.

I have some of the tools, dial guages and micrometers etc. but it will boil down to whether I feel like I have more time or money. Buying the rest of the tools will all add up too. I would like to do it myself but weigh that against the extra work. I will need to find a good builder that's close to home preferably (Calgary). I'll see what the damages would be. Thanks

[tinkering]

Also 1970 had some issues with the pinion and sprocket shaft tapers in the flywheels. Not allowing a good truing of the wheels. Sometimes lapping the tapers fixed that, sometimes new wheels were needed.

The cases were from a 1972 I think. The rest was from 1976. I could handle all this stuff but the tiiiiime.

[tinkering]

Well, to be honest, how that set of wheels looks, tells me the race should probably be replaced. I would bet it's rusted and pitted. The pinion rollers won't have much life if they're installed in a poor environment.

The factory service manuals go into detail on line honing, it's not very difficult to do. If you don't want to buy the tool, take it to some one who has one, after you have a new pinion shaft, sprocket shaft and crank pin in the cleaned up flywheels. The rods will need to be reconditioned as well. If you don't have access to the tools to precisely measure, and to hone the races (rods and pinion) I'd honestly take it to one that does.

   No tools + no experience = a problematic engine needing a teardown. Experience in 5 piece cranks is a necessity. I'd get a time tested friend or shop to do the cases/crank....

I'm a journeyman motor mechanic (not telling you I am the best) 63 years young. I've got a bunch of tools but not so many HD specialized tools. I put this motor (the whole bike) together the first time 30 years ago. I wouldn't get in a hurry and do a bunch of things without plenty of thought and discussion.

[tinkering]

Skimming through the motor section of the manual I am reminded of all the time and expense it will be to do it myself. Today? I am leaning on finding a shop. I don't know where to find my time tested HD friend anymore.

[tinkering]

Especially about the case insert. My shop guy says he can't remember working on an old Shovelhead that didn't have the insert loose in the case. Saw a cool article by a guy that installs a Timken conversion for Twin Cams into Shovelheads to fix that problem.

-JW

Know where a guy could start looking for that article?

[tinkering]

   From what I'm seeing, your going to be way out of time, money & patience if you take that on yourself. You'd probably save money by just buying a new S&S crank (about $1200), as you'll need shafts, probably rods, bearings & bushing, ect.... Another issue could be the cases, the casted in races need to be checked for looseness let alone honing, do I hear Darkhorse calling. With something that rusty, odds are virtually every steel part in that motor is toast, and that doesn't even address aluminum fatigue. I'd be taking a glance at a  create engine just to keep things in prospective. But if your stubborn, and or have deep pockets, have fun.

I hear you.
I'll do as much of it as I can without being rediculous. Do you know any good shops in Calgary? I know of a good builder in Strathmore, Sammich Sycles, but that is a heck of a drive from here. Where do you order S&S cranks?
Thanks

[fbn ent]

That's jeffscycle...he's in Montana. I'll see who I remember in the South of the Province...

[tinkering]

That's jeffscycle...he's in Montana. I'll see who I remember in the South of the Province...

Hi Hinton! I think I got that straightened out now. Apologies all around for that. Do you know any good shops in Calgary? I know of a good builder in Strathmore, Sammich Sycles, but that is a heck of a drive from here.
Thanks

[FXDBI]

That's jeffscycle...he's in Montana. I'll see who I remember in the South of the Province...

Hi Hinton! I think I got that straightened out now. Apologies all around for that. Do you know any good shops in Calgary? I know of a good builder in Strathmore, Sammich Sycles, but that is a heck of a drive from here.
Thanks

Welsh Cycles in Edmonton pretty sure George done a shovelhead or 2 he has been around long enough.  Bob

[fbn ent]

Ray Laslo is around Edmonton too......40-45 years experience.

[FXDBI]

Ray Laslo is around Edmonton too......40-45 years experience.

If you can get him to do your shovelhead engine he is the guy. Been years since I worked with him at Sulzer. The man is a awesome machinist and was set up to build engines at home.  Bob

[fbn ent]

    He's MY man!!!

[tinkering]

Ray Laslo is around Edmonton too......40-45 years experience.

I think I've heard of Ray Lazlo. I would like somebody in Calgary though. In case in need to get back and forth.

[tinkering]

Ray Laslo is around Edmonton too......40-45 years experience.

Too bad he's not in Calgary. Thanks though.

[tinkering]

Ray Laslo is around Edmonton too......40-45 years experience.

If you can get him to do your shovelhead engine he is the guy. Been years since I worked with him at Sulzer. The man is a awesome machinist and was set up to build engines at home.  Bob

What is Sulzer? I might wind up seeing if I can find him but I will try Sammich Sycles in Calgary first. Thanks

[Ohio HD]

I don't know what the bike is like, or what the plan is for it. But if it were mine, and the renewal costs aren't going to be too high, I'd reuse as much of the OEM parts (reconditioned) as I could. This stuff is getting more rare everyday.

Motor shafts, crank pins, bushing, bearings can all be sourced from Eastern. I'm sure the guys that have been mentioned are aware of where to get parts.

http://www.easternmotorcycleparts.com/engine/PAGE_123_124.html

[JW113]

Know where a guy could start looking for that article?

I thought I bookmarked it, but guess not. However, I did bookmark this one. Same process, but this guy makes his own insert instead of using the TC timken conversion one.

https://cyclesource.com/dont-junk-that-case-repair-a-loose-motor-case-bearing-insert/

-JW

[FXDBI]

Ray Laslo is around Edmonton too......40-45 years experience.

If you can get him to do your shovelhead engine he is the guy. Been years since I worked with him at Sulzer. The man is a awesome machinist and was set up to build engines at home.  Bob

What is Sulzer? I might wind up seeing if I can find him but I will try Sammich Sycles in Calgary first. Thanks

It is  a pump company specializes in multi stage high speed centrifugal pumps. He was the machine shop foreman there. Very sharp guy. Bob

[cheech]

I don't know what the bike is like, or what the plan is for it. But if it were mine, and the renewal costs aren't going to be too high, I'd reuse as much of the OEM parts (reconditioned) as I could. This stuff is getting more rare everyday.

New made in China crap to replace OEM always has me saying WTF. If none else available, what can ya do? Otherwise

[tinkering]

I don't know what the bike is like, or what the plan is for it. But if it were mine, and the renewal costs aren't going to be too high, I'd reuse as much of the OEM parts (reconditioned) as I could. This stuff is getting more rare everyday.

New made in China crap to replace OEM always has me saying WTF. If none else available, what can ya do? Otherwise

Sometimes you hear folks knockin the AMF years... save it for the CHN years

[tinkering]

I don't know what the bike is like, or what the plan is for it. But if it were mine, and the renewal costs aren't going to be too high, I'd reuse as much of the OEM parts (reconditioned) as I could. This stuff is getting more rare everyday.

Motor shafts, crank pins, bushing, bearings can all be sourced from Eastern. I'm sure the guys that have been mentioned are aware of where to get parts.

http://www.easternmotorcycleparts.com/engine/PAGE_123_124.html

I'm going to keep the bike. I'm going to keep it as close to 74 inches as I can. When the barrels are worn I'll move up. I'm with you 100%. I will reuse as much OEM as possible. I appreciate all the supplier recommendations you can throw at me thanks.

I guess the first thing for me to do is pull the crank assembly apart and clean up the wheels. What kind of media should I blast them with? What kind of tape do you use to protect the critical areas. What should I watch out for?
I might as well blast the cases and barrels while I'm at it... Anything else?
Thanks

[Ohio HD]

I use medium glass shot for cleaning up steel. Aluminum is best to use a fine glass shot, and the fine can be used on steel, it just takes longer. You won't hurt the flywheels, shafts or rods with glass shot. Get the oil free before beginning or you'll have glass media packing in corners from wet oils. The key is washing everything really well later. I never really needed to tape anything off, you can direct the flow where you want it. And it'll get in everywhere anyway, so back to the washing afterwards. 

Anytime you blast aluminum you don't use high pressure or stay on one spot so long you make low spots. Again a decent cabinet with a quality gun I use about 40 to 45 lbs air pressure.

[JW113]

Are you planning to assemble, balance, and true this bottom end yourself? Got the stuff to do it?

-JW

[tinkering]

I use medium glass shot for cleaning up steel. Aluminum is best to use a fine glass shot, and the fine can be used on steel, it just takes longer. You won't hurt the flywheels, shafts or rods with glass shot. Get the oil free before beginning or you'll have glass media packing in corners from wet oils. The key is washing everything really well later. I never really needed to tape anything off, you can direct the flow where you want it. And it'll get in everywhere anyway, so back to the washing afterwards. 

Anytime you blast aluminum you don't use high pressure or stay on one spot so long you make low spots. Again a decent cabinet with a quality gun I use about 40 to 45 lbs air pressure.

That's excellent info. Thanks
I need to get a cabinet set up. I wouldn't call my gun 'quality' but I'll give it a go. I've got a hundred pound propane bottle as an air tank, and two more I can piggyback if I need more reserve.
Do you use 100 psi on steel? My cut in/out is 90/110 psi I think.

I'll get some medium and fine glass shot. Thanks

[tinkering]

Are you planning to assemble, balance, and true this bottom end yourself? Got the stuff to do it?

-JW

I don't have all the stuff but I will do what I can, and farm out the rest.

[JW113]

So, just to toss out an opinion, since they're free and all....

You need to get the engine case fixed, and need to get the flywheels rebuilt. Any reason to not just pop the wheels back in the case, take it (or ship it) to a bottom end rebuilder and let them do all the cleaning-refurbishing-assembling? That's what many (not all) of us home boys do. Not to diss any of the very good shops represented on the HTT, but Dark Horse sure did right by me on the last one I needed the bottom rebuilt. Was an EVO, but not much diff than a Shov. And I tell you what, at 80-90mph, that thing is smoother than a playboy bunny's bottom.

-JW

[Ohio HD]

I use medium glass shot for cleaning up steel. Aluminum is best to use a fine glass shot, and the fine can be used on steel, it just takes longer. You won't hurt the flywheels, shafts or rods with glass shot. Get the oil free before beginning or you'll have glass media packing in corners from wet oils. The key is washing everything really well later. I never really needed to tape anything off, you can direct the flow where you want it. And it'll get in everywhere anyway, so back to the washing afterwards. 

Anytime you blast aluminum you don't use high pressure or stay on one spot so long you make low spots. Again a decent cabinet with a quality gun I use about 40 to 45 lbs air pressure.

That's excellent info. Thanks
I need to get a cabinet set up. I wouldn't call my gun 'quality' but I'll give it a go. I've got a hundred pound propane bottle as an air tank, and two more I can piggyback if I need more reserve.
Do you use 100 psi on steel? My cut in/out is 90/110 psi I think.

I'll get some medium and fine glass shot. Thanks

I generally never go over 55 PSI no matter what it is. If you need to cut more aggressively, you change the media to something else.

Keep saying this: Clean, clean, clean, blow out, blow out, blow out, clean again. Nothing ruins a rebuild faster than glass media stuck in the heads oil returns, cases oil passages, etc.

[cheech]

As JW stated, one could never go wrong with Darkhorse.

Funny thing also with this thread popping up.
This video was on my Youtube feed tonight. Watch Video
His name is Dragonman, I faintly have heard of him. Can't vouch for any of his work or whatnot. If others on here have any insight hopefully they will share.
Seems to have a nice old school shop if anything. Watch the video regardless, it's cool.
He gives his number, address to send him all your stuff and he claims for a $1000 he'll do a basic shovel rebuild, assembles lower and ships back to you to assemble topend.
If he checks out, for a no frills basic Shovel job that seems a good deal. YMMV!!

[Ohio HD]

Dragonman, just say no.....   I'll leave it at that.

[cheech]

Dragonman, just say no.....   I'll leave it at that.

Well there's that. Never heard of him as far as work goes. Figured someone would clue us in. So didn't know either way.

[Ohio HD]

Dragonman, just say no.....   I'll leave it at that.

Well there's that. Never heard of him as far as work goes. Figured someone would clue us in. So didn't know either way.

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,97535.msg1140158.html#msg1140158

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,81016.msg905004.html#msg905004

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,1712.msg15050.html#msg15050

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,31308.msg317288.html#msg317288

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,59731.msg638511.html#msg638511

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,39580.msg408808.html#msg408808

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,58130.msg618388.html#msg618388

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,38677.msg400396.html#msg400396

[tinkering]

That's a lot of bad exposure. Thanks for the heads up on that. Who needs a potential runaround. Dang
The way that sounds, I could save the $1000 and throw all those old rusty parts in a cement mixer with some media, and reassemble. Voila

[cheech]

That's a lot of bad exposure. Thanks for the heads up on that. Who needs a potential runaround. Dang
The way that sounds, I could save the $1000 and throw all those old rusty parts in a cement mixer with some media, and reassemble. Voila

Indeed. So has Deye experienced any of his work? LOL Seems he was adamant in all those threads.
What a shame, not saying his shop is state of the art or anything. But it was laid out and organized pretty decent.
I did ponder why he had what appeared to be a older Sunnen seat and guide machine then claim he ground the seats by hand and honed the guides on those old Sunnen hones. 

[tinkering]

I use medium glass shot for cleaning up steel. Aluminum is best to use a fine glass shot, and the fine can be used on steel, it just takes longer. You won't hurt the flywheels, shafts or rods with glass shot. Get the oil free before beginning or you'll have glass media packing in corners from wet oils. The key is washing everything really well later. I never really needed to tape anything off, you can direct the flow where you want it. And it'll get in everywhere anyway, so back to the washing afterwards. 

Anytime you blast aluminum you don't use high pressure or stay on one spot so long you make low spots. Again a decent cabinet with a quality gun I use about 40 to 45 lbs air pressure.

That's excellent info. Thanks
I need to get a cabinet set up. I wouldn't call my gun 'quality' but I'll give it a go. I've got a hundred pound propane bottle as an air tank, and two more I can piggyback if I need more reserve.
Do you use 100 psi on steel? My cut in/out is 90/110 psi I think.

I'll get some medium and fine glass shot. Thanks

I generally never go over 55 PSI no matter what it is. If you need to cut more aggressively, you change the media to something else.

Keep saying this: Clean, clean, clean, blow out, blow out, blow out, clean again. Nothing ruins a rebuild faster than glass media stuck in the heads oil returns, cases oil passages, etc.

Can a guy use engine cleaner, power washer, and air before the bead blast, and then power washer and air afterwards?
I found a 55lb bag of 60-80 micron glass beads. Is that size usable? $50 CAD

[tinkering]

That's a lot of bad exposure. Thanks for the heads up on that. Who needs a potential runaround. Dang
The way that sounds, I could save the $1000 and throw all those old rusty parts in a cement mixer with some media, and reassemble. Voila

Indeed. So has Deye experienced any of his work? LOL Seems he was adamant in all those threads.
What a shame, not saying his shop is state of the art or anything. But it was laid out and organized pretty decent.
I did ponder why he had what appeared to be a older Sunnen seat and guide machine then claim he ground the seats by hand and honed the guides on those old Sunnen hones. 

The shop footage is either a scam or dragonman has improved his service. Out of fairness I hope for the latter but I don't want to gamble it.

[tinkering]

This BT7-grit 60-80 micron abrasive can be used for finishing, cleaning, deburring and peening applications. It can be used on a wide range of materials, including metal, glass, plastic and rubber. It contains no detectable crystalline silica.

Is this medium or fine? Will it work for both?

[Hillside Motorcycle]

We re-build those cranks here and have for about 30 years now, and are fully equipped with a dedicated work area for this.
By the time you are set-ready-go with all the tooling needed, S&S Master Balancing Tools, flywheel fixtures, truing stand, indicators, rod re-build tools, line lapper, drill press, or mill,(a lathe is handy also) torque wrenches, various custom jigs and holders, etc, etc, etc, a shop can have north of $7500.00 plus dollars tied up in this, at today's prices, w/o the machine tools.

[Hybredhog]

   There are a bunch of people here including myself that rebuild & balance flywheels, as we acquired all of the previously mentioned tools over the years when rebuilding the old stuff was a basic need. So just having someone do the wheels or buy a new S&S assembly is far cheaper & quicker than torturing your wallet. But I still see that the flywheels themselves are about the only savable items, and rods that don't get magnafluxed checked are an accident waiting to happen. You can do it on the Cheap with Chinese parts, and if staying with basic 74" configuration, you'd probably be OK, but that's your bet to back.
    As for case inspection & repair, I bolt down oven heated case halves & using plugs I made, I can put some stress on the races to see if they move. If they are loose, you can see oil seep out around the races. At that point if they're bad I don't ***K around & just ship them off to Dark Horse. These kind of shops have dedicated fixtures & machine to do fast and quality work far faster than It'd take me to set up my mill.
    Dragon Man, That guy was great for my Business!!!! I should have sent him Christmas cards.

[Ohio HD]

    Dragon Man, That guy was great for my Business!!!! I should have sent him Christmas cards.

                    

[tinkering]

I use medium glass shot for cleaning up steel. Aluminum is best to use a fine glass shot, and the fine can be used on steel, it just takes longer. You won't hurt the flywheels, shafts or rods with glass shot. Get the oil free before beginning or you'll have glass media packing in corners from wet oils. The key is washing everything really well later. I never really needed to tape anything off, you can direct the flow where you want it. And it'll get in everywhere anyway, so back to the washing afterwards. 

Anytime you blast aluminum you don't use high pressure or stay on one spot so long you make low spots. Again a decent cabinet with a quality gun I use about 40 to 45 lbs air pressure.

That's excellent info. Thanks
I need to get a cabinet set up. I wouldn't call my gun 'quality' but I'll give it a go. I've got a hundred pound propane bottle as an air tank, and two more I can piggyback if I need more reserve.
Do you use 100 psi on steel? My cut in/out is 90/110 psi I think.

I'll get some medium and fine glass shot. Thanks

I generally never go over 55 PSI no matter what it is. If you need to cut more aggressively, you change the media to something else.

Keep saying this: Clean, clean, clean, blow out, blow out, blow out, clean again. Nothing ruins a rebuild faster than glass media stuck in the heads oil returns, cases oil passages, etc.

Can a guy use engine cleaner, power washer, and air before the bead blast, and then power washer and air afterwards?
I found a 55lb bag of BT7 grit, 60-80 micron glass beads. Is that medium or fine? $50 CAD

[Buglet]

  Do not use glass beads for inside of case use plastic plus dill out the Welsh plug of if welded so you can clean out the oil passage After you done blasting and cleaning don't forget to put a plug back in there. Its in the right case on the bottom of the case. Again do not use glass beads inside the case.

[turboprop]

Ray Laslo is around Edmonton too......40-45 years experience.

Too bad he's not in Calgary. Thanks though.

Denco Cycles. Good stuff.

http://www.dencocycle.com

[tinkering]

We re-build those cranks here and have for about 30 years now, and are fully equipped with a dedicated work area for this.
By the time you are set-ready-go with all the tooling needed, S&S Master Balancing Tools, flywheel fixtures, truing stand, indicators, rod re-build tools, line lapper, drill press, or mill,(a lathe is handy also) torque wrenches, various custom jigs and holders, etc, etc, etc, a shop can have north of $7500.00 plus dollars tied up in this, at today's prices, w/o the machine tools.

I hear you. I will do whatever I can with the gear I have. At that point I will use a bonifide builder machine shop in Calgary, hopefully. I've been directed to Sammich Sycles in Strathmore. It's still quite a drive if it requires me to travel back and forth, so I'm still looking for one closer.
Don't get me wrong. I appreciate your expertice. I just don't like the holdups at the border when shipping stuff. All of your information is really helpful. Please keep it coming.

[tinkering]

   There are a bunch of people here including myself that rebuild & balance flywheels, as we acquired all of the previously mentioned tools over7 the years when rebuilding the old stuff was a basic need. So just having someone do the wheels or buy a new S&S assembly is far cheaper & quicker than torturing your wallet. But I still see that the flywheels themselves are about the only savable items, and rods that don't get magnafluxed checked are an accident waiting to happen. You can do it on the Cheap with Chinese parts, and if staying with basic 74" configuration, you'd probably be OK, but that's your bet to back.
    As for case inspection & repair, I bolt down oven heated case halves & using plugs I made, I can put some stress on the races to see if they move. If they are loose, you can see oil seep out around the races. At that point if they're bad I don't ***K around & just ship them off to Dark Horse. These kind of shops have dedicated fixtures & machine to do fast and quality work far faster than It'd take me to set up my mill.
    Dragon Man, That guy was great for my Business!!!! I should have sent him Christmas cards.

I definitely belong too the society for the prevention of cruelty to wallets.  If only the wheels and rods are usable so be it. I don't like the idea of putting chiny parts in an American motor; that is not my intension. I don't bet on chiny products, that's for sure. I will make sure the guy who does any machine work plans on magnafluxing the rods. I like your hot pressure setup for checking the case race etc.... I'll make sure that gets done somehow. Dark Horse sounds like a Great machine shop. How much would they want to remake a box of parts into a bottom end again? Thanks for your infomation and help. I appreciate it.

[fbn ent]

https://darkhorsecrankworks.com/

[tinkering]

  Do not use glass beads for inside of case use plastic plus dill out the Welsh plug of if welded so you can clean out the oil passage After you done blasting and cleaning don't forget to put a plug back in there. Its in the right case on the bottom of the case. Again do not use glass beads inside the case.

That is nice info. I will take a look at that... and see it I can find some plastic plus. Thanks

[tinkering]

https://darkhorsecrankworks.com/

Thanks!

[tinkering]

Ray Laslo is around Edmonton too......40-45 years experience.

Too bad he's not in Calgary. Thanks though.

Denco Cycles. Good stuff.

http://www.dencocycle.com

Thanks! 👍

[Buglet]

  Also take out the cylinder studs as debris gets stuck behind them when blasting. A little heat helps in removing the studs.

[tinkering]

  Also take out the cylinder studs as debris gets stuck behind them when blasting. A little heat helps in removing the studs.

Will do thanks.
With smaller compressors, do pressurized or syphon feed blasters work better? I have a 4 or 5 gallon syphon pail setup. Compressor is 1 or 2 hp I think with 100 gallons of tank. I want to get it set up better than it has been.

[tinkering]

  Do not use glass beads for inside of case use plastic plus dill out the Welsh plug of if welded so you can clean out the oil passage After you done blasting and cleaning don't forget to put a plug back in there. Its in the right case on the bottom of the case. Again do not use glass beads inside the case.

Why can't you use fine glass bead at lower psi, or soda, rather than plastic which is harder to find? Why is this more critical inside the case?

[Buglet]

   I see it to many time where guys would glass beads the inside of the cases and sometime the glass would get embedded in the cases and once it's running the cases get hot the beads fall out and that's not good for the motor. There is to many places for the glass to hide. I see to many redone motors get wasted that way.

[tinkering]

   I see it to many time where guys would glass beads the inside of the cases and sometime the glass would get embedded in the cases and once it's running the cases get hot the beads fall out and that's not good for the motor. There is to many places for the glass to hide. I see to many redone motors get wasted that way.

Well I can not argue that! Thanks for the heads up. I will try to find some plastic for that. The cases were painted inside I think, so it won't be as rough as the exposed areas. Do you use plastic on the outside too? What size of plastic plus do you use?

[Buglet]

     The stuff I use is Plastic Abrasive # 6712-50 it come in a 50lb box. I you want the outside of the case to look like when it can out of the factory then the plastic is the way to go. If you want more luster then go with glass.

[tinkering]

Where is the best price to order parts, and specialty tools for canadian delivery? 

[fbn ent]

Check Martin Hogan - HH Tools is in Calgary....he sells some tools. Haven't checked his pricing in quite a while.

[tinkering]

     The stuff I use is Plastic Abrasive # 6712-50 it come in a 50lb box. I you want the outside of the case to look like when it can out of the factory then the plastic is the way to go. If you want more luster then go with glass.

I like the luster. It has all kinds of time to dull up:)
Thanks

[tinkering]

Check Martin Hogan - HH Tools is in Calgary....he sells some tools. Haven't checked his pricing in quite a while.

Thanks for that!   

[tinkering]

Will a 2019 114cid motor fit a shovelhead frame without mods?

[Burnout]

I don't think so.
The biggest motor I know of that will fit in a stock 4 speed frame is a S&S 4"x4" 100" EVO

[fbn ent]

I don't even think an EVO will fit without some cutting...

[Racepres]

I don't think so.
The biggest motor I know of that will fit in a stock 4 speed frame is a S&S 4"x4" 100" EVO

Me too...

I don't even think an EVO will fit without some cutting...

see the above... S&S built a 100 inch Evo just for the 4 speed frame...
While Harley built a 4-speed frame, just for the Evo engine... 1985 and 1986...

[JW113]

S&S used to sell a 79 cube Evo motor with short cylinders made for 4 speed frames. Have not seen one for quite some time, not sure if they still make that stuff. That said, you theoretically make a 114 shovelhead motor. 3-13/16" bore and 5" stroke. That might also be a tight fit in a 4 speed frame.

-JW

[Racepres]

S&S used to sell a 79 cube Evo motor with short cylinders made for 4 speed frames. Have not seen one for quite some time, not sure if they still make that stuff. That said, you theoretically make a 114 shovelhead motor. 3-13/16" bore and 5" stroke. That might also be a tight fit in a 4 speed frame.

-JW

And... If you ever had a "conventional" 114, the 3-13/16 by 5... you next found that the Transmission was not up to the Task.. Too bad Baker did not have their 4-speed when I was runnin the 114...

[Hossamania]

Will a 2019 114cid motor fit a shovelhead frame without mods?

That made me laugh, I like your thinking!

[fbn ent]

"see the above... S&S built a 100 inch Evo just for the 4 speed frame...
While Harley built a 4-speed frame, just for the Evo engine... 1985 and 1986...''

Yeah..knew that..

[Burnout]

The short stroke (4") is what makes a 4x4 fit in a 4 speed frame, it uses shorter cylinders.

Anything with a 5" stroke is going to need tall cylinders.