SE super tuner

[larry gaddie]

'15 Limited with HD SE race tuner

can the gear ratio numbers be changed in the ECM...going from 34 tooth to a 32 ?

thanks

[les]

No.  What I'm going to do to fix my gear ratio problem because I installed a Grudge Box and now my cruise control does not work is to take it to a shop where they have a Power Vision.  They will suck down my map, adjust the ratio table, then send the map back up.  PV says it won't change any of my other map tuning.

Before I leave the shop I will be performing an experiment where I'll load my SE map from my laptop to see if the load leaves the ratio table alone.

[Scotty]

No.  What I'm going to do to fix my gear ratio problem because I installed a Grudge Box and now my cruise control does not work is to take it to a shop where they have a Power Vision.  They will suck down my map, adjust the ratio table, then send the map back up.  PV says it won't change any of my other map tuning.

Before I leave the shop I will be performing an experiment where I'll load my SE map from my laptop to see if the load leaves the ratio table alone.

How much are they charging you to do that? They would have to use up a tune license to do it or rather you will be paying for a tune license to access your ECM with a PV.
Make sure you get a copy of your tune license from them and if you find a used PV you can use it on that. The tune license is locked to the bike not the unit.

[aharp]

No.  What I'm going to do to fix my gear ratio problem because I installed a Grudge Box and now my cruise control does not work is to take it to a shop where they have a Power Vision.  They will suck down my map, adjust the ratio table, then send the map back up.  PV says it won't change any of my other map tuning.

Before I leave the shop I will be performing an experiment where I'll load my SE map from my laptop to see if the load leaves the ratio table alone.

Curious what numbers you end up with and the final outcome.

I did a grudge box last year and tried several settings and have gotten closer to things working as designed but still not there yet.

[les]

No.  What I'm going to do to fix my gear ratio problem because I installed a Grudge Box and now my cruise control does not work is to take it to a shop where they have a Power Vision.  They will suck down my map, adjust the ratio table, then send the map back up.  PV says it won't change any of my other map tuning.

Before I leave the shop I will be performing an experiment where I'll load my SE map from my laptop to see if the load leaves the ratio table alone.

How much are they charging you to do that? They would have to use up a tune license to do it or rather you will be paying for a tune license to access your ECM with a PV.
Make sure you get a copy of your tune license from them and if you find a used PV you can use it on that. The tune license is locked to the bike not the unit.

I don't know how much they will charge.  I live in NE Ohio and have not yet had a chance to make hour ride out there.  I've only discussed it with the service manager of the indy shop.

In terms of licensing, I would expect they have an unlimited licensing subscription to PV.  Thanks for the tip on getting the license number and I'll talk to them about that.  I will post a follow up on the cost, but it might take a while.  There was one day I could have rode out, but they were booked.

[les]

No.  What I'm going to do to fix my gear ratio problem because I installed a Grudge Box and now my cruise control does not work is to take it to a shop where they have a Power Vision.  They will suck down my map, adjust the ratio table, then send the map back up.  PV says it won't change any of my other map tuning.

Before I leave the shop I will be performing an experiment where I'll load my SE map from my laptop to see if the load leaves the ratio table alone.

Curious what numbers you end up with and the final outcome.

I did a grudge box last year and tried several settings and have gotten closer to things working as designed but still not there yet.

I've emailed this Excel calculator tool to indy shop, which I got somewhere here on HTT.  The service manager was appreciative because he's always calculated the ratios by hand.  I'd be very curious if you use it, how well it works.

[Ohio HD]

It's from Joe Lyons. He uses it when tuning.

[les]

This is how I believe the tool works:

1. Pick the appropriate table.
2. Enter the gear ratios of your transmissions.
3. Pull down your current map from the bike into the PV.
4. Enter (hand type) what's in your bike's ratio map into the yellow column.
5. Enter the auto-calculated green column values into your PV map.
6. Upload into the bike.

[les]

It's from Joe Lyons. He uses it when tuning.

Thanks Ohio.  Sorry Joe for forgetting who to attribute to.

[les]

One thing I have not found anyone do on this site (yet) is to reload their SE map after the gear ratios have been set by the PV, to see if it leaves those corrected gear ratios alone.

[Jamie Long]

One thing I have not found anyone do on this site (yet) is to reload their SE map after the gear ratios have been set by the PV, to see if it leaves those corrected gear ratios alone.

If you mean load your SE map it will have the original values, as you can only load the tune from either the VCI or your computer, not a copy of the tune thats in the ECM. You would need a Power Vision to do that.

[les]

One thing I have not found anyone do on this site (yet) is to reload their SE map after the gear ratios have been set by the PV, to see if it leaves those corrected gear ratios alone.

If you mean load your SE map it will have the original values, as you can only load the tune from either the VCI or your computer, not a copy of the tune thats in the ECM. You would need a Power Vision to do that.

My hopeful goal is that after I get my gear ratios are set via the PV so my cruise control will work again, I can continue to be able to use my SE tuner to make adjustments, if I wish.  So, this is the plan:

1. Take my bike to the indy shop so they can copy my current map from the bike using a PV.
2. Use the PV to adjust only my gear ratios table and upload to the bike.
3. Verify that the cruise control works.
4. Use my orange SE module to reload my map from file back up to my bike.
5. Test to see if the cruise control still works (my gear ratios from the PV load untouched?).

[Jamie Long]

My hopeful goal is that after I get my gear ratios are set via the PV so my cruise control will work again, I can continue to be able to use my SE tuner to make adjustments, if I wish.  So, this is the plan:

1. Take my bike to the indy shop so they can copy my current map from the bike using a PV.
2. Use the PV to adjust only my gear ratios table and upload to the bike.
3. Verify that the cruise control works.
4. Use my orange SE module to reload my map from file back up to my bike.
5. Test to see if the cruise control still works (my gear ratios from the PV load untouched?).

As noted above that will not work. If you are going to "Use my orange SE module to reload my map from file back up to my bike." You will be doing just that, loading your SE map.

[Ohio HD]

Jamie, is the way this can happen, is to buy a PV and then make the changes needed in ratios, and reload the MAP as a PV?

I would think it's a step forward for later down the road having the PV over the SE tuner.

[Coyote]

Yeah, you can do that. But he'd need to switch to a PV for tuning.

[rigidthumper]

He will have to purchase a tune license to flash with the PV, right? So at that point, as long as he has his tune license, all he has to do is borrow someones PV, yes?

[Coyote]

Sure, if he has one available.

[les]

My hopeful goal is that after I get my gear ratios are set via the PV so my cruise control will work again, I can continue to be able to use my SE tuner to make adjustments, if I wish.  So, this is the plan:

1. Take my bike to the indy shop so they can copy my current map from the bike using a PV.
2. Use the PV to adjust only my gear ratios table and upload to the bike.
3. Verify that the cruise control works.
4. Use my orange SE module to reload my map from file back up to my bike.
5. Test to see if the cruise control still works (my gear ratios from the PV load untouched?).

As noted above that will not work. If you are going to "Use my orange SE module to reload my map from file back up to my bike." You will be doing just that, loading your SE map.

So, what you're saying is that even though my SE orange module does not have a gear ratio table, somehow it will overwrite the gear ratio table in the bike?

This is what I intend to verify whether it does or not.  As mentioned, no one on this site has performed that exact test.

[Coyote]

The gear table is in the map, you just can't see it with the SE Tuner.

[les]

The gear table is in the map, you just can't see it with the SE Tuner.

Just curious, how do you know this if you can't see it?  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're wrong.  Rather, I just would like to know how you found this out.

[Ohio HD]

Different SE MAPS would require different gearing depending on the bike and year. It's really doubtful the ratios are hard coded. They would have used a table.

[remington007]

A SE tuner map can be pulled out with a PV and the extra tables are there to see, so yes the gear table is in the map. Also there is a whole extra level of map tables the consumer cannot see with a PV.

[les]

Different SE MAPS would require different gearing depending on the bike and year. It's really doubtful the ratios are hard coded. They would have used a table.

Agreed that the gear ratios use a table.  That is in fact how those ratios are changed via a PV.  I'll post back the results of my experiment.  It's been impossible to get to the indy to complete this experiment which is based on the following hypothesis.

1. The SE orange module does not have the gear ratio map because it's not visible.
2. The SE tuning software is intelligent enough to mark tables that have changed and only load them.
3. All tables are loaded at the factory with administrative superuser software, but accessory SE tuning software has limited access.

Again, I plan to perform this experiment before I leave the indy shop so they can quickly reload my PV gear ratio map while I'm still there.

[les]

A SE tuner map can be pulled out with a PV and the extra tables are there to see, so yes the gear table is in the map. Also there is a whole extra level of map tables the consumer cannot see with a PV.

Yes, and is why the indy and I are going the PV route to fix my cruise control problem.  I don't want to loose my current engine tune.  I just want to "tune" my tranny.  I won't be buying, unless forced to, a PV module by leveraging the indy's unlimited PV licensing agreement.

I just need to verify if this tranny tune renders my SE tuner into a hockey puck. 

[Coyote]

I just need to verify if this tranny tune renders my SE tuner into a hockey puck.

No but it you load any other map from the SE tuner you will loose your gearing tables again.

[les]

I just need to verify if this tranny tune renders my SE tuner into a hockey puck.

No but it you load any other map from the SE tuner you will loose your gearing tables again.

Ok, so when I load my SE map I'll first tell the indy, "Don't put away your PV and don't go anywhere.  Let me ride up and down the street and I'll be right back."   

[rigidthumper]

And the indy purchases his PV licenses , and has to pay for each one-then resells them, one at a time.

[les]

And the indy purchases his PV licenses , and has to pay for each one-then resells them, one at a time.

I anticipate that the indy will charge me whatever it cost, plus the appropriate amount of beer money thrown in.  Not over concerned about that.  My main concern is if I'll be able to use my SE module after my tranny gets fixed, or if I'll be left with a follow on decision that I'll have to buy a PV if I ever want to adjust my maps in the future.  But I won't entertain that last decision until I've seen with my own eyes that the SE module load overwrites the PV gear table fix.

[HV]

I think you will find that the SE map will replace all PV settings ... My question would be why would you want to still use a SE Tuner for anything ....lol Once your Indy connects his PV to your Bike with his Tune licence He ( or you ) can tune it as many times as you wish using His PV.... I cant see any advantage of re installing the SE Maps except to have an inferior tune and justify the $$$ you spent on the SE Tuner...     

[Jamie Long]

So, what you're saying is that even though my SE orange module does not have a gear ratio table, somehow it will overwrite the gear ratio table in the bike?

This is what I intend to verify whether it does or not.  As mentioned, no one on this site has performed that exact test.

Your SE tune has a gear ratio table, it's simply not exposed in the SE software (just like the dozens of other calibration items that you see in PV but not in the SE tunes)

[les]

I think you will find that the SE map will replace all PV settings ... My question would be why would you want to still use a SE Tuner for anything ....lol Once your Indy connects his PV to your Bike with his Tune licence He ( or you ) can tune it as many times as you wish using His PV.... I cant see any advantage of re installing the SE Maps except to have an inferior tune and justify the $$$ you spent on the SE Tuner... 

Understood, but just think about your answer for a minute.  The current tune (which I paid good money for) is a really great tune.  I don't want to change it.  All I want is to tune my tranny.  Yes, I'd like to know if I'm able to set something simple like my Idle RPM or turn my engine temp management system off, if I want to make a minor change like that.  But I have no reason to make any changes to the substantial part of the engine tune.  Taking 10 extra minutes to perform this test is worth it, especially since no one here on HTT has actually verified if the test will be successful or not.  10 extra minutes to see if my $450 SE module "could" be used in the future if I ever decide to do some changes on my engine.  Actually, avoiding this extra 10 minutes makes less sense to me, don't you agree?

[les]

So, what you're saying is that even though my SE orange module does not have a gear ratio table, somehow it will overwrite the gear ratio table in the bike?

This is what I intend to verify whether it does or not.  As mentioned, no one on this site has performed that exact test.

Your SE tune has a gear ratio table, it's simply not exposed in the SE software (just like the dozens of other calibration items that you see in PV but not in the SE tunes)

The only thing I can say is what I said in reply #19.

[Coyote]

So, what you're saying is that even though my SE orange module does not have a gear ratio table, somehow it will overwrite the gear ratio table in the bike?

This is what I intend to verify whether it does or not.  As mentioned, no one on this site has performed that exact test.

Your SE tune has a gear ratio table, it's simply not exposed in the SE software (just like the dozens of other calibration items that you see in PV but not in the SE tunes)

I already told him that Jamie. Guy doesn't want to listen. Not sure why he asked the question but refuses the answer.   

[les]

So, I made an appointment on May 20th to do my tranny tuning.  The service manager agrees with Coyote and Jamie that loading the SE map will over write the gear ratio table.  Nevertheless, we're going to take the extra few minutes to do it just to see with our own eyes.  Of course, I will post confirmation that my theory was wrong after I get back home.

[les]

As expected, I was wrong about the SE map load.

The entire process went pretty quick.  He downloaded the map in my bike into his PV.  I used the spreadsheet tool on my laptop to enter the current values from the PV gear ratio map, and give him the green column values.  Then he entered those values into the gear ratio map, and uploaded it into the bike.  Cruise control fixed.

Then I took my laptop and loaded my SE map into my bike.  Cruise control went back to NOT working and he looked and verified that it reset the gear ratio tables back to what we started with.  He then took his hand-held PV module (which still had my fix map), loaded it back into the bike, and cruise control working again.

He charged me $200 for the PV license and $80 labor.  He emailed me my license, stk file (what's that???), and the final tune PV map with my corrected gear ratios.

Stubborn Les

[Coyote]

He emailed me my license, stk file (what's that???), and the final tune PV map with my corrected gear ratios.

Stubborn Les

The stk file is the PV license you paid 200 bucks for. You will need that file if you want to use a different PV to adjust the bike in the future.

[cheech]

The stk file is the PV license you paid 200 bucks for. You will need that file if you want to use a different PV to adjust the bike in the future.

I was under the impression the .STK file was his "original" tune drawn from his ECM?
In turn his tuner had to submit that to Dynojet to receive the License.
But in the end it should be his backup file in the event he wants to flash his bike back to "stock"?
May contain the license?

[Coyote]

That's true. The license file is a .txt file. If the OP did not get this file back as well, he should ask for it. When you open the license file, it should look similar to this one below.

<PVLicense>
   <Name>
      250427
   </Name>
   <Company>
      DJ
   </Company>
   <Email>
      none
   </Email>
   <LicenseCode>
      2014
   </LicenseCode>
   <ExpireVer>
      2.1.0
   </ExpireVer>
   <Cmd>
      VL:09-KB4-1GL49RH
   </Cmd>
   <Signature>
      ZHDLSz7xJsWuf3Fw7FEssrfWQedjmupMSoXAjpdaZr6RQEZfYEpqWu4cBOpTrxcworwqmskoKuGw/Jh1W1Xavb4KEUZMgpQfjrD+07newJ60Mn1NMoVDKCOn/RhhO1JCNP9dnyiJVLAdGTL/ct56u8iM7Qg4wQg7PfmTCA2XzjA=
   </Signature>
</PVLicense>

[eddfive]

Call Technoresearch and ask if there Centurion product will allow for gearing changes by gear. Then you need to find a shop near you that has the Centurion product.

[remington007]

Even if Centurion could change the ratio table, if the SE map is reloaded it would revert to whatever is in the SE map.

[les]

Even if Centurion could change the ratio table, if the SE map is reloaded it would revert to whatever is in the SE map.

Yes, I saw this with my own eyes because I did it with my own hands.  The service manager and the dyno tech at Roeders Racing witnessed this too.