Spitting out dipstick after engine work question

[chipthedonkey]

I'm about ready to stop doing the friends and family bike work around here.  At least on stuff newer than Evos.  I build engines for ag and industrial pumps every day and have for 20 years but these little 2 cam motors often do stuff I don't expect and have to ask about. 

So this is my brother in laws Road King.  I thought it was a 2002 but turns out it's a 2000.  Completly new top end and cam chest.  He bought S&S 625 cams and had the cyulinder work and head work all done at the same shop.  It looked like really nice machine work.  Supposed to be about 10.25:1 as it goes together and now 98"

The little motor runs great.  Sounds great too.  Really smooth and you'd think there weren't a problem until you do a heavy medium to hard acceleration. Then it pushes out the dipstick tube.  In less than 50 miles the motor has done it 3 times now. 

When I asked about compression releases awhile back someone suggested putting them on a switch.  That was a good idea.  The bike really don't seem to need the compression releases so far.

So Ive got to do something with this dipstick before I give the bike back to my brother in law.  Did all the homework online I could find but still hoping for advice from people more familare on these motors.

I saw a dipstick and housing from a company called Baker that was a screw in dipstick.  That couldn't blow out.  But then I'm worried about the extra pressure it'll be holding that's making the dipstick blow out now.  What's the next weak point to give out if the dipstick can't blow out? Do I want to just capture it like this Baker thing would do or does it need some bigger vent?  If a vent is the answer what's the best way to add a crankcase vent to relieve the pressure?  Or is it both?  A dipstick that can't blow out and more vent.

During the assembly all the rings were spaced like they should be.  It's not too full of oil.  It's at about a half quart low.  This bike would always lose its first half quart if you had it full before.  Anyone that's got any ideas about why this thing is pushing out its dipstick so easy and what I can do to make it better thank you.

[04 SE Deuce]

Check the head breathers...you should be able to suck but not blow on the vent hoses coming off the heads.

[kd]

Also do a search on here for dipstick problem, popping out, etc and you'll probably find a few threads.  There's been several along with the fixes.

[chipthedonkey]

Check the head breathers...you should be able to suck but not blow on the vent hoses coming off the heads.

Will check that.  It doesn't have hoses.  Has something called a Ness Sucker air cleaner that bolts straight to the heads.  But I can rig something up to check as you suggest.  The breather parts up inside the heads were brand new factory part.  The ones that came out had a name on them Doherty Myst or something like that.  They were better looking parts than the new factory parts but I still put the new parts in just because they were new.

If one or the other doesn't behave like you described what does that tell me?  What would I be chasing after that?

[nomadmax]

Rocker box gaskets installed improperly can block the vent and create excess pressure.

[prodrag1320]

Rocker box gaskets installed improperly can block the vent and create excess pressure.

bingo,rocker box gaskets on backwards

[Skin]

2000 was the only year you had to block an oil hole in the cam plate, a kit from HD is a screw and washer also did you do anything with the oil pressure spring and plunger in the cam plate. You'll need a guage from Fueling to check pressure, if it's to high that could be a problem. I'm just throwing ideas out there.

[smoserx1]

Early 99 was the only year you had to block that oil feed from the cam plate and that was only if you were replacing the original cam plate with a later version

[Skin]

Sorry, you are absolutely right. I should have finished my coffee first before opening my mouth.

[smoserx1]

Dipstick popping was common with the early twin cams.  This thread may offer some solutions:

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,111181.msg1327848.html#msg1327848

[chipthedonkey]

Rocker box gaskets installed improperly can block the vent and create excess pressure.

Obviously I don't think I did that.  But I know I ain't made all the mistakes I'm allowed for this month.  At least it's not a tough thing to check out.  Since I didnt even realize they could go on backwards I obviously could have did them wrong.  Is this be something that will be obvious when I'm looking?

[Coyote]

 [attach=0]

[FLDavetrain]

Rocker box gaskets installed improperly can block the vent and create excess pressure.

Obviously I don't think I did that.   Since I didnt even realize they could go on backwards

If you weren't aware there's an orientation then the odds are extremely high they're on wrong

[motorhogman]

Rocker box gaskets installed improperly can block the vent and create excess pressure.

Obviously I don't think I did that.   Since I didnt even realize they could go on backwards

If you weren't aware there's an orientation then the odds are extremely high they're on wrong

I did mine a while ago.  Thought they were marked.. for proper orientation.. Maybe i imagined that..

[chipthedonkey]

[attach=0,msg1348383]

I remember seeing the channel.  From there it seemed obvious which way the gaskets went.  So I'm like 99% sure they're right.  It'll get double checked this weekend though. 

[tdrglide]

I remember putting that gasket on incorrectly once before but indication of that mistake was oil leak under the lower rocker cover.

Did you check to see if breathers were properly assembled before install. They are not properly assembled straight out of the box.

[chipthedonkey]

I remember putting that gasket on incorrectly once before but indication of that mistake was oil leak under the lower rocker cover.

Did you check to see if breathers were properly assembled before install. They are not properly assembled straight out of the box.

Again I think so.  The "think" part is only something else to check right now though.  Fortunately its all one job to check it out.  It will all be apart to look at any of it.

I remember thinking when looking at the gaskets that if the channel was left open it would have to leak.  So I really don't think they're on backwards.  But it'll all get checked.  Biggest hassle is really taht the tank is now full of gas.

[MikeL]

Incorrect installation of the rockerbox gasket will leak been there done that. I have a 2000 RKC. It does not like more than 3.5 qts of oil in the sump. It blows the dip stick out on a hard pull with more than 3.5 qts. It did it as an 88 and now as a 124. I have the head breathers going to the ground via 5/16 tubing. I have the H/D digital oil temp dip stick it is better than the original dip stick but still pops out.
When I finally get settled in my shop down here in FL I'm going to increase the diameter of the dip stick neck using bicycle inner tube and use a hose clamp to keep the dip stick in.

                                                                                                                                                                    MIKE

[Jim Bronson]

If all else fails, you can add a dipstick vent cap. You will need to replace the dipstick with the cap. If you take a trip, just throw the dipstick in the bag. Just an idea.

a1cycles.net

[roadkingdresser]

a friends bike was doing the same thing. changed the oil pu,mp and fixed it.

[rigidthumper]

If the lower rocker box gaskets are upside down, there won't be enough crankcase pressure to pop the dipstick- all that pressure will be venting on top of the head
If, however, the crankcase breather assy is mis-assembled, or the outlet/hoses plugged, there will be enough pressure to pop a dipstick.

[chipthedonkey]

a friends bike was doing the same thing. changed the oil pu,mp and fixed it.

Of course anything is possible but it's a brand new oil pump.  As part of everything new in the cam chest he got a new cam plate and oil pump.  All Harley parts.  It's a kit to get rid of the spring loaded chain tensioners and make they hydraulic instead.  When it went to gether did the loose bolts and alighment bolts and turn the engine over then snug everything up thing to make sure it was aligned as well.  So when anything is possible I doubtful and hoping it's not something with a bad new oil pump.

[chipthedonkey]

If the lower rocker box gaskets are upside down, there won't be enough crankcase pressure to pop the dipstick- all that pressure will be venting on top of the head
If, however, the crankcase breather assy is mis-assembled, or the outlet/hoses plugged, there will be enough pressure to pop a dipstick.

The more I've thought about how all the pieces go together that' s the understadnign I was figuring out in my head too.  If the gaskets are wrong I think I'd have a leak like some other folks have mentioned.  I'm guessing and hoping right now that I messed up the breathers somehow instead of the bottom gasket.  It 'll get looked at again this evening or tomorrow.  If it fails that suck and blow test at the head breather holes that some one mentioned does that mean breathers put together wrong or something plugged up?

Of all the potential problems that's the easiest.  Not a big deal.  I might even put the Doherty Myst Free parts back in that were in it to begin with.  Those looked nice and a lot more obvious than the Harley Davidson part.

[Jim Bronson]

All this makes me wonder how much pressure there is in a case during downstroke pulses. If it is enough to pop out the dipstick, what other problems can it cause (like leaky base gaskets)?

[chipthedonkey]

All this makes me wonder how much pressure there is in a case during downstroke pulses. If it is enough to pop out the dipstick, what other problems can it cause (like leaky base gaskets)?

That was my worry too.  When I saw that Baker screw in dipstick.  Easy way to make it where your dipstick don't blow out no more.  But at what problems elsewhere.  There's always some next weak point to worry about.  That's why I was really wanting to trying and find and fix something instead of just throwing a part on it like a bandaid.