twincam lifter preload

[fxdl03]

se 24tpi s&s premium lifters 3 turns 3.2 flats or 3 .3 flats for .135ish ?

[Ohio HD]

Based on 24 TPI

2.4 turns (14 flats) = 0.100" depth
2.9 turns (17 flats) = 0.120" depth

1 flat = 0.2 turns (0.007" depth)

[aharp]

If no limiters in the lifters I always set the SE at 3 turns

[838]

If no limiters in the lifters I always set the SE at 3 turns

Is this the same with their new "premier" lifters. Tech at s&s told me 4 turns with the premiers and the quickee pushrods, but it's pretty loud at 4. 110" 85cc heads 570 s&s cam.

[kd]

What weight valve springs in those 110 heads?

[838]

They're stock 103 heads with a little work done kibblewhite oviate wire .610 valve springs.

[gdishman]

I just put a set of s&s premium lifters with screaming eagle puts rods 24 thread pitch. I started with 2 1/2 turns still noisy. Then went to 3 turns a lot better. If I would do it again I would do 3.2 to 3.5 turns.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

We load the lifter to .140-.150", and have done so for years.

[Don D]

They're stock 103 heads with a little work done kibblewhite oviate wire .610 valve springs.

Bingo, that's where you went wrong. Stockers would have served you better. Stockers are good for .600 lift and are 130# seat @ 1.85", those beehives are 180#. There are other springs available to replace the stockers that have lower seat pressure than the KWs, which is all that is needed and is easier on parts plus will run quieter.

The lifter preload thing is a bunch of noise in my opinion. If the lifters are mid travel they will be quiet or not and other preloads will have minimal influence. The slow bleed variety of lifters help but will still compress if the conditions are right like springs with too much seat pressure. Cams lift rate is an influence, the 570 is mild. So if you have noise and the lifters are mid travel look elsewhere for noise sources assuming the lifters are not junk. Many times I have set them a few flats off the bottom when I have one noisy but that is a band aid not a fix.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

We have proven time and again, day in, day out here, at our full-time shop, that the .140", to .150" dimension works.
And is markedly quieter at full engine operating temps as well.

[Propflux01]

What if you are using stock (or in may case, Smith brothers) or non-adjustable rods on a 103 with Andrews 48's, and you still have the "clack" at about 2700? Even after installing Rocker lockers. Go adjustable?

[Hossamania]

What if you are using stock (or in may case, Smith brothers) or non-adjustable rods on a 103 with Andrews 48's, and you still have the "clack" at about 2700? Even after installing Rocker lockers. Go adjustable?

Have the pushrod tubes been clearanced?
Were the lifters replaced, if so, what type?

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Load the lifter to .145".
Enjoy the quiet.

[Propflux01]

What if you are using stock (or in may case, Smith brothers) or non-adjustable rods on a 103 with Andrews 48's, and you still have the "clack" at about 2700? Even after installing Rocker lockers. Go adjustable?

Have the pushrod tubes been clearanced?
Were the lifters replaced, if so, what type?

There is no evidence of clearance issues/markings on either the tubes or the pushrods. All 4 lifter were replaced with S&S Premiums.

Load the lifter to .145".
Enjoy the quiet.

They are not adjustable.

[Hossamania]

What if you are using stock (or in may case, Smith brothers) or non-adjustable rods on a 103 with Andrews 48's, and you still have the "clack" at about 2700? Even after installing Rocker lockers. Go adjustable?

Have the pushrod tubes been clearanced?
Were the lifters replaced, if so, what type?

There is no evidence of clearance issues/markings on either the tubes or the pushrods. All 4 lifter were replaced with S&S Premiums.

Load the lifter to .145".
Enjoy the quiet.

They are not adjustable.

Hillside is saying they should be.

[Kllongbrake]

What if you are using stock (or in may case, Smith brothers) or non-adjustable rods on a 103 with Andrews 48's, and you still have the "clack" at about 2700? Even after installing Rocker lockers. Go adjustable?

Ive had "clack" in the 2300-2700rpm range and found excessive clearance in the rocker arm bushings.

[Ohio HD]

What if you are using stock (or in may case, Smith brothers) or non-adjustable rods on a 103 with Andrews 48's, and you still have the "clack" at about 2700? Even after installing Rocker lockers. Go adjustable?

One of my bikes has the Andrews 48's in it. I used Smith Brothers +0.020" length pushrods. If I recall correctly the 48's have a 0.010" less diameter base circle compared to stock cams. So using a +0.020" or 0.030" solid push rod gets you in a little better relation to lifter cup depth. You can buy SE +0.030" pushrods or order from Smith Brothers what ever length you wish. Mine is not quieter nor does it make anymore noise than it did with the stock cams.

[Propflux01]

What if you are using stock (or in may case, Smith brothers) or non-adjustable rods on a 103 with Andrews 48's, and you still have the "clack" at about 2700? Even after installing Rocker lockers. Go adjustable?

One of my bikes has the Andrews 48's in it. I used Smith Brothers +0.020" length pushrods. If I recall correctly the 48's have a 0.010" less diameter base circle compared to stock cams. So using a +0.020" or 0.030" solid push rod gets you in a little better relation to lifter cup depth. You can buy SE +0.030" pushrods or order from Smith Brothers what ever length you wish. Mine is not quieter nor does it make anymore noise than it did with the stock cams.

That is exactly what I did. Measured and added 020 to make up the base, even though I was told the lifter could more than handle the extra 020. This is why I'm so confused about the noise.

[Propflux01]

What if you are using stock (or in may case, Smith brothers) or non-adjustable rods on a 103 with Andrews 48's, and you still have the "clack" at about 2700? Even after installing Rocker lockers. Go adjustable?

Ive had "clack" in the 2300-2700rpm range and found excessive clearance in the rocker arm bushings.

Side clearance? Or axial?

[Don D]

Years ago I chased my tail with a brand of cams that had extremely fast ramps and learned many things. Lighter spring pressure did not help and if the spring pressure was too light the valves loft even at midrange engine speeds, not good. Then went after rocker arm shims, very little help. Lifter preload with Harley B lifters, little to no difference. All issues went away when I had Andrews grind me a cam to my specs. Most of Andrews native grinds have reasonable ramps. The grinds they make for others are hit and miss. Bottom line don't expect a cam with overly fast ramps to run quiet, that is the root cause. Go ahead and knock yourself out with all the "fixes", many have tried. Only caveat to that is rocker lockers and if the shafts are loose in the supports and clacking. The rocker lockers fix that. Adding adjustable pushrods VS properly fitted fixed length pushrods offers no advantage other than the versatility for future changes.

[aharp]

One thing I have found time and time again is the wrong weight oil being run for the ambient air temp. I have seen (heard) it myself in back to back testing that I did. Makes a world of difference in engine noise.

[Kllongbrake]

What if you are using stock (or in may case, Smith brothers) or non-adjustable rods on a 103 with Andrews 48's, and you still have the "clack" at about 2700? Even after installing Rocker lockers. Go adjustable?

Ive had "clack" in the 2300-2700rpm range and found excessive clearance in the rocker arm bushings.

Side clearance? Or axial?

Hahaha...I don't honestly know axial from radial. It wasn't side clearance. The bushings were worn to .008+ clearance in the bore and some beginning to crack. When I replaced with new S&S arms and shafts...no more clack in the mid to high 2000rpm range. I did also replace the plates with Vulcan but I don't think that played any part at all in it.

[Propflux01]

Years ago I chased my tail with a brand of cams that had extremely fast ramps and learned many things. Lighter spring pressure did not help and if the spring pressure was too light the valves loft even at midrange engine speeds, not good. Then went after rocker arm shims, very little help. Lifter preload with Harley B lifters, little to no difference. All issues went away when I had Andrews grind me a cam to my specs. Most of Andrews native grinds have reasonable ramps. The grinds they make for others are hit and miss. Bottom line don't expect a cam with overly fast ramps to run quiet, that is the root cause. Go ahead and knock yourself out with all the "fixes", many have tried. Only caveat to that is rocker lockers and if the shafts are loose in the supports and clacking. The rocker lockers fix that. Adding adjustable pushrods VS properly fitted fixed length pushrods offers no advantage other than the versatility for future changes.

Would you consider Andrews 48s to have 'fast' enough ramps to cause noise? I haven't heard many complaints about them in that department.

[Propflux01]

What if you are using stock (or in may case, Smith brothers) or non-adjustable rods on a 103 with Andrews 48's, and you still have the "clack" at about 2700? Even after installing Rocker lockers. Go adjustable?

Ive had "clack" in the 2300-2700rpm range and found excessive clearance in the rocker arm bushings.

Side clearance? Or axial?

Hahaha...I don't honestly know axial from radial. It wasn't side clearance. The bushings were worn to .008+ clearance in the bore and some beginning to crack. When I replaced with new S&S arms and shafts...no more clack in the mid to high 2000rpm range. I did also replace the plates with Vulcan but I don't think that played any part at all in it.

Thank you, something to look at for me.

[Don D]

Years ago I chased my tail with a brand of cams that had extremely fast ramps and learned many things. Lighter spring pressure did not help and if the spring pressure was too light the valves loft even at midrange engine speeds, not good. Then went after rocker arm shims, very little help. Lifter preload with Harley B lifters, little to no difference. All issues went away when I had Andrews grind me a cam to my specs. Most of Andrews native grinds have reasonable ramps. The grinds they make for others are hit and miss. Bottom line don't expect a cam with overly fast ramps to run quiet, that is the root cause. Go ahead and knock yourself out with all the "fixes", many have tried. Only caveat to that is rocker lockers and if the shafts are loose in the supports and clacking. The rocker lockers fix that. Adding adjustable pushrods VS properly fitted fixed length pushrods offers no advantage other than the versatility for future changes.

Would you consider Andrews 48s to have 'fast' enough ramps to cause noise? I haven't heard many complaints about them in that department.

I don't know. I have not personally installed them. When looking for a bolt-in that works well I usually look to TTS or S&S MR103