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FXR Question for Turboprop

Started by JW113, June 17, 2020, 09:15:15 AM

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JW113

Hey Turbo, when fitting a Twin Cam engine in a FXR, can you/do you also use a TC transmission with it?

thanks,
JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Racepres

June 17, 2020, 09:30:14 AM #1 Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 09:35:39 AM by Racepres
Aint TurboProp... But... look at the Interface motor to Trans... Gotta use together..
Maybe the very Early ones are Different [or Same as EVO] ... I don't fool with them..

JW113

Well that kind of answers my question, I think. So you can pull the motor/trans out of a TC Road Kind and massage it into an FXR chassis, yes?

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

Hybredhog

   In theory, a 99-06 bagger engine/ tranny/ primary should be a relatively "easy" plant. Overall length of swingarm to front mount is pretty close. The one major thing would be making room for the oil pan. Head space should be good, and you don't need the old FXR oil tank.
'01 FXDXT, '99 FXDL/XRD, '76 FLH

JW113

And isn't using a bagger swing arm on an FXR a common upgrade?

So as I'm thinking on this, if I had a RK sitting around that doesn't really get ridden much,
:wink:
a big chunk of it could be repurposed to build an FXR. Yes?

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

choseneasy

If you go thru his posts there is a ton of good info- from primaries, oil pan , harnesses etc.
It is a good read.

Scotty

You have to use the appropriate twin cam transmission with the twin cam motor.
All the twin cam motors and transmissions fit in easily but you have to either mod the oil pan or mod the crossover to get the transmission in.
Other problem areas are wiring to be done and if you want mid controls especially if you use the 2007 up combination.
Swingarm you can use one from 2002-2008 as they fit easily but you also need the rear wheel and caliper to match the swingarm.
It's not that hard to do but there is just lots of little things to do once you decide to either mod the oil pan or mod the frame whichever is in your budget.

turboprop

Quote from: JW113 on June 17, 2020, 09:15:15 AM
Hey Turbo, when fitting a Twin Cam engine in a FXR, can you/do you also use a TC transmission with it?

thanks,
JW

Lots of ways to build the mousetrap. The best way is whatever your buddy, the harley mechanic, says is the best.

For me, I want the FXR/TC conversion to look and function as if the factory did it. I also want to use as many unmodified OEM parts and I do not want to cut the frame. This is sticky subject and I will not be debating it here.

IMO, the TC/FXR conversion should be built on a '99-'00 bagger transmission case. Why? Because an OEM FXR inner primary will bolt on to it without mods. This in turn locks the builder into using a set of cases from a TC88A. As far as I know there are four options for the oil pan: Deviant Fab oil pan, San Diego Custom oil pan, modifying and OEM pan or cutting the frame. I have modified pans and bought a custom pan. Modifying the pan is not as easy as your buddy the welder says.

The swingarm is another are that needs to be worked out. The very early bagger trans cases with have a ⅝" pivot shaft, the later models have a ¾" shaft. I run the ¾" shaft in my bikes. The case on my red bike has been reamed to accept the ¾" shaft. The swingarm on my blue bike uses adapter bushings from Custom Cycle Engineering. Both bikes use the '02-'07 bagger arm. The shock mounts on this arm are located more to the rear. Custom shocks will be required. My blue bike has a set of custom spec'd RaceTech shocks that provide over 4" of travel at the wheel axle.

For wiring, I like the '00-ish dyna wiring harness. It will require a bunch of mods as nothing on a dyna (barf) is in the same place as an FXR. But at the end of the day it is an OEM Barnes, with correct codes and connectors that any dealer tech can sort out. Much easier than trying to source all of the color coded wire. I run a DTT module with two connectors. OEM map sensor, oil pressure sensor, trans pickup, crank sensor, turn signal module, coil and the oem dyna (barf) fuse block.

The foot peg mount on the right side will need to be clearanced and a new coil mount will have to be made. Not hard.

I prefer not to modify the frame in any way, but some feel the need to weld in a plate behind the engine to enclose the area vacated by the oil tank. I understand why they do it, but not for me. Again, listen to the experts that have never done it but have read a bunch online. They know, just ask them.

I am sure you will get a lot of advice from experts that have never done it but have read plenty on line. <rolls eyes>

If you (JW only) are serious about doing this, you can pm me your email or phone number for more detailed information.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

Scotty

$1000 US + for a oil pan
$150 AU to mod frame and make it better. and unnoticeable to anyone except someone looking to be a bitch.

We modded the frame with a removable brace.

You can even buy a kit to mod the frame from FXR Division
https://www.fxrdivision.com/twin-cam-fxr-parts/fxr-twin-cam-conversion-kit

My eyes didn't roll when I saw the other post but my ass did tighten somewhat when I saw the price of a converted oil pan.  :potstir:
Putting a cover on the frame where the oil tank was makes it a good place to put some wiring very nicely.

More than one way to skin a cat but each to their own.

JW113

Thanks Turbo, I knew you'd be to the point on good guidance on something like this. Here is the deal. I have a '04 RK sitting in the garage that does not get ridden. Almost since day one I did not really like the bike, and should have just gotten rid of it and moved on instead of spending a ton of dough to make it go fast. For my 5'8" frame, the bike is just too damn big. I hate the ergos of it and the weight. A smaller framed bike like an FXR would get ridden.

What I've done in the past with similar situations is to take what I have and turn it into something else. What I see taking up space in the garage is a very strong 113" motor with 5speed trans, a swing arm, some Ohlin shocks, some Akront wheels, some fork tubes, etc, etc. I am pondering that if I came across an FXR frame (there is one on our local craigslist), how much from the RK I could migrate to an FXR chassis.

Is there any reason the RK primary could not be used with forward controls?

If I do end up acquiring a frame, I will indeed ping you, thanks. The other option is to get rid of the RK and just buy a FXR, but sadly an RK of this vintage is not worth anything, regardless of how much has been invested in it.

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

turboprop

Quote from: Scotty on June 17, 2020, 03:26:05 PM
$1000 US + for a oil pan
$150 AU to mod frame and make it better. and unnoticeable to anyone except someone looking to be a bitch.

We modded the frame with a removable brace.

You can even buy a kit to mod the frame from FXR Division
https://www.fxrdivision.com/twin-cam-fxr-parts/fxr-twin-cam-conversion-kit

My eyes didn't roll when I saw the other post but my ass did tighten somewhat when I saw the price of a converted oil pan.  :potstir:
Putting a cover on the frame where the oil tank was makes it a good place to put some wiring very nicely.

More than one way to skin a cat but each to their own.


Yes. Your way is much better.

//BREAK//


JW, happy to discuss off line with you.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

Scotty

Quote from: turboprop on June 17, 2020, 07:14:17 PM
Yes. Your way is much better.

I know and I use forward controls on a FXR as well.  :fish:

98fxstc

Always interested in your ideas Scotty  :up:
and yeah, i would want forward controls too
maybe not a traditional fit for fxr, but if you got long legs, what else ?

Scotty

Quote from: 98fxstc on June 18, 2020, 03:40:02 AM
Always interested in your ideas Scotty  :up:
and yeah, i would want forward controls too
maybe not a traditional fit for fxr, but if you got long legs, what else ?

That's right I can't ride with mid controls, to big (fat) all over  :hyst:
There is even a way to keep shocks FXR and retain the mid controls but still enjoy a updated swingarm and non leaking mid controls.
It's never stands still, things keep changing and moving forward.

mtrhead269

Getting ready to put a T/C Driveline out of a 05 RK in my 90 FXRS. Haven't decided on FI or Carb if Carb most likely a Lectron. Going with an Munit controller and hand built wire harness. No desire to change out the frame crossmember.

Scotty

Quote from: mtrhead269 on June 19, 2020, 07:41:51 PM
No desire to change out the frame crossmember.

That is the one big decision anyone has to make when doing this.
If you are a good machinist you could modify your existing oil pan.
If not you will have to buy a modified one and that was where we drew the line because the price was ridiculous.
I know people go on about OEM stuff and other rubbish but putting a twin cam into a FXR frame is breaking the rules anyway.
With the modified oil pan you will have to pull the motor and transmission if you ever need to clean the oil pan for whatever reason.
With the modified frame you can have one fixed brace and one removable brace which allows access to the oil pan.
Not my photos but what we used to for ideas and it shows removable brace itself plus brace welded in plus second brace in 3rd picture.
There is no one right way it's like I said more than one way to skin a cat and to each their own.


Deye76

"I know people go on about OEM stuff and other rubbish but putting a twin cam into a FXR frame is breaking the rules anyway."

It's not about rules or keeping it OE, it's about altering arguably the best handling HD frame made. A lot of testing went into making that frame what it is. The oil pans increased in price lately, not sure why. When first introduced were in line with the cost of a Baker + 1 which many have purchased for their baggers. If one needs to clean a TC oil pan, the motor should be coming out for new rod bearings, anyway, IMHO.
East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

turboprop

Quote from: Scotty on June 20, 2020, 03:15:51 AM
Quote from: mtrhead269 on June 19, 2020, 07:41:51 PM
No desire to change out the frame crossmember.

That is the one big decision anyone has to make when doing this.
If you are a good machinist you could modify your existing oil pan.
If not you will have to buy a modified one and that was where we drew the line because the price was ridiculous.
I know people go on about OEM stuff and other rubbish but putting a twin cam into a FXR frame is breaking the rules anyway.
With the modified oil pan you will have to pull the motor and transmission if you ever need to clean the oil pan for whatever reason.
With the modified frame you can have one fixed brace and one removable brace which allows access to the oil pan.
Not my photos but what we used to for ideas and it shows removable brace itself plus brace welded in plus second brace in 3rd picture.
There is no one right way it's like I said more than one way to skin a cat and to each their own.


Not true at all.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

JW113

Dumm question from a dummass that don't know nuthin'. Can a dummass just not use the oil pan under the trans and plumb the stock FXR oil tank to the TC motor?

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

JW113

Quote from: Deye76 on June 20, 2020, 07:04:59 AM
it's about altering arguably the best handling HD frame made.

Did you mean best handling "Big Twin" HD frame?
:SM:

-JW
2004 FLHRS   1977 FLH Shovelhead  1992 FLSTC
1945 Indian Chief   1978 XL Bobber

turboprop

Quote from: JW113 on June 20, 2020, 08:18:13 AM
Dumm question from a dummass that don't know nuthin'. Can a dummass just not use the oil pan under the trans and plumb the stock FXR oil tank to the TC motor?

-JW

Yes.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

Scotty

June 20, 2020, 12:43:56 PM #21 Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 12:52:25 PM by Scotty
Quote from: Deye76 on June 20, 2020, 07:04:59 AM
It's not about rules or keeping it OE, it's about altering arguably the best handling HD frame made. A lot of testing went into making that frame what it is. The oil pans increased in price lately, not sure why. When first introduced were in line with the cost of a Baker + 1 which many have purchased for their baggers. If one needs to clean a TC oil pan, the motor should be coming out for new rod bearings, anyway, IMHO.

It's a brace and you are not changing the  frame at all only a brace. Putting the oil tank lower helps with the center or gravity as well.
No handling difference at all.
It might be semantics but altering a frame and brace are not the same to me.
If I altered the rake or cut through any tubing then I would not do it but a brace is nothing.

Scotty

Quote from: turboprop on June 20, 2020, 07:47:23 AM
Not true at all.

Would not be a easy slide out the rear job and that is obvious from the shape of the pan and the frame braces.

turboprop

Quote from: Scotty on June 20, 2020, 12:46:56 PM
Quote from: turboprop on June 20, 2020, 07:47:23 AM
Not true at all.

Would not be a easy slide out the rear job and that is obvious from the shape of the pan and the frame braces.

Again. Not true. I have modified several TC oil pans. Pics are this site. How many have you modified?
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

Scotty

Quote from: turboprop on June 20, 2020, 01:13:46 PM
Again. Not true. I have modified several TC oil pans. Pics are this site. How many have you modified?

None and not afraid to admit it. I have no machining skills whatsoever.
However pics of a oil pan are one thing, do a video showing the oil pan come out with just taking the oil pan screws out because until then it's all internet bullshit.