FXR Question for Turboprop

[JW113]

Hey Turbo, when fitting a Twin Cam engine in a FXR, can you/do you also use a TC transmission with it?

thanks,
JW

[Racepres]

Aint TurboProp... But... look at the Interface motor to Trans... Gotta use together..
Maybe the very Early ones are Different [or Same as EVO] ... I don't fool with them..

[JW113]

Well that kind of answers my question, I think. So you can pull the motor/trans out of a TC Road Kind and massage it into an FXR chassis, yes?

-JW

[Hybredhog]

   In theory, a 99-06 bagger engine/ tranny/ primary should be a relatively "easy" plant. Overall length of swingarm to front mount is pretty close. The one major thing would be making room for the oil pan. Head space should be good, and you don't need the old FXR oil tank.

[JW113]

And isn't using a bagger swing arm on an FXR a common upgrade?

So as I'm thinking on this, if I had a RK sitting around that doesn't really get ridden much,

a big chunk of it could be repurposed to build an FXR. Yes?

-JW

[choseneasy]

If you go thru his posts there is a ton of good info- from primaries, oil pan , harnesses etc.
It is a good read.

[Scotty]

You have to use the appropriate twin cam transmission with the twin cam motor.
All the twin cam motors and transmissions fit in easily but you have to either mod the oil pan or mod the crossover to get the transmission in.
Other problem areas are wiring to be done and if you want mid controls especially if you use the 2007 up combination.
Swingarm you can use one from 2002-2008 as they fit easily but you also need the rear wheel and caliper to match the swingarm.
It's not that hard to do but there is just lots of little things to do once you decide to either mod the oil pan or mod the frame whichever is in your budget.

[turboprop]

Hey Turbo, when fitting a Twin Cam engine in a FXR, can you/do you also use a TC transmission with it?

thanks,
JW

Lots of ways to build the mousetrap. The best way is whatever your buddy, the harley mechanic, says is the best.

For me, I want the FXR/TC conversion to look and function as if the factory did it. I also want to use as many unmodified OEM parts and I do not want to cut the frame. This is sticky subject and I will not be debating it here.

IMO, the TC/FXR conversion should be built on a '99-'00 bagger transmission case. Why? Because an OEM FXR inner primary will bolt on to it without mods. This in turn locks the builder into using a set of cases from a TC88A. As far as I know there are four options for the oil pan: Deviant Fab oil pan, San Diego Custom oil pan, modifying and OEM pan or cutting the frame. I have modified pans and bought a custom pan. Modifying the pan is not as easy as your buddy the welder says.

The swingarm is another are that needs to be worked out. The very early bagger trans cases with have a ⅝" pivot shaft, the later models have a ¾" shaft. I run the ¾" shaft in my bikes. The case on my red bike has been reamed to accept the ¾" shaft. The swingarm on my blue bike uses adapter bushings from Custom Cycle Engineering. Both bikes use the '02-'07 bagger arm. The shock mounts on this arm are located more to the rear. Custom shocks will be required. My blue bike has a set of custom spec'd RaceTech shocks that provide over 4" of travel at the wheel axle.

For wiring, I like the '00-ish dyna wiring harness. It will require a bunch of mods as nothing on a dyna (barf) is in the same place as an FXR. But at the end of the day it is an OEM Barnes, with correct codes and connectors that any dealer tech can sort out. Much easier than trying to source all of the color coded wire. I run a DTT module with two connectors. OEM map sensor, oil pressure sensor, trans pickup, crank sensor, turn signal module, coil and the oem dyna (barf) fuse block.

The foot peg mount on the right side will need to be clearanced and a new coil mount will have to be made. Not hard.

I prefer not to modify the frame in any way, but some feel the need to weld in a plate behind the engine to enclose the area vacated by the oil tank. I understand why they do it, but not for me. Again, listen to the experts that have never done it but have read a bunch online. They know, just ask them.

I am sure you will get a lot of advice from experts that have never done it but have read plenty on line. <rolls eyes>

If you (JW only) are serious about doing this, you can pm me your email or phone number for more detailed information.

[Scotty]

$1000 US + for a oil pan
$150 AU to mod frame and make it better. and unnoticeable to anyone except someone looking to be a bitch.

We modded the frame with a removable brace.

You can even buy a kit to mod the frame from FXR Division
https://www.fxrdivision.com/twin-cam-fxr-parts/fxr-twin-cam-conversion-kit

My eyes didn't roll when I saw the other post but my ass did tighten somewhat when I saw the price of a converted oil pan. 
Putting a cover on the frame where the oil tank was makes it a good place to put some wiring very nicely.

More than one way to skin a cat but each to their own.

[JW113]

Thanks Turbo, I knew you'd be to the point on good guidance on something like this. Here is the deal. I have a '04 RK sitting in the garage that does not get ridden. Almost since day one I did not really like the bike, and should have just gotten rid of it and moved on instead of spending a ton of dough to make it go fast. For my 5'8" frame, the bike is just too damn big. I hate the ergos of it and the weight. A smaller framed bike like an FXR would get ridden.

What I've done in the past with similar situations is to take what I have and turn it into something else. What I see taking up space in the garage is a very strong 113" motor with 5speed trans, a swing arm, some Ohlin shocks, some Akront wheels, some fork tubes, etc, etc. I am pondering that if I came across an FXR frame (there is one on our local craigslist), how much from the RK I could migrate to an FXR chassis.

Is there any reason the RK primary could not be used with forward controls?

If I do end up acquiring a frame, I will indeed ping you, thanks. The other option is to get rid of the RK and just buy a FXR, but sadly an RK of this vintage is not worth anything, regardless of how much has been invested in it.

-JW

[turboprop]

$1000 US + for a oil pan
$150 AU to mod frame and make it better. and unnoticeable to anyone except someone looking to be a bitch.

We modded the frame with a removable brace.

You can even buy a kit to mod the frame from FXR Division
https://www.fxrdivision.com/twin-cam-fxr-parts/fxr-twin-cam-conversion-kit

My eyes didn't roll when I saw the other post but my ass did tighten somewhat when I saw the price of a converted oil pan. 
Putting a cover on the frame where the oil tank was makes it a good place to put some wiring very nicely.

More than one way to skin a cat but each to their own.

Yes. Your way is much better.

//BREAK//


JW, happy to discuss off line with you.

[Scotty]

Yes. Your way is much better.

I know and I use forward controls on a FXR as well. 

[98fxstc]

Always interested in your ideas Scotty 
and yeah, i would want forward controls too
maybe not a traditional fit for fxr, but if you got long legs, what else ?

[Scotty]

Always interested in your ideas Scotty 
and yeah, i would want forward controls too
maybe not a traditional fit for fxr, but if you got long legs, what else ?

That's right I can't ride with mid controls, to big (fat) all over 
There is even a way to keep shocks FXR and retain the mid controls but still enjoy a updated swingarm and non leaking mid controls.
It's never stands still, things keep changing and moving forward.

[mtrhead269]

Getting ready to put a T/C Driveline out of a 05 RK in my 90 FXRS. Haven't decided on FI or Carb if Carb most likely a Lectron. Going with an Munit controller and hand built wire harness. No desire to change out the frame crossmember.

[Scotty]

No desire to change out the frame crossmember.

That is the one big decision anyone has to make when doing this.
If you are a good machinist you could modify your existing oil pan.
If not you will have to buy a modified one and that was where we drew the line because the price was ridiculous.
I know people go on about OEM stuff and other rubbish but putting a twin cam into a FXR frame is breaking the rules anyway.
With the modified oil pan you will have to pull the motor and transmission if you ever need to clean the oil pan for whatever reason.
With the modified frame you can have one fixed brace and one removable brace which allows access to the oil pan.
Not my photos but what we used to for ideas and it shows removable brace itself plus brace welded in plus second brace in 3rd picture.
There is no one right way it's like I said more than one way to skin a cat and to each their own.

[Deye76]

"I know people go on about OEM stuff and other rubbish but putting a twin cam into a FXR frame is breaking the rules anyway."

It's not about rules or keeping it OE, it's about altering arguably the best handling HD frame made. A lot of testing went into making that frame what it is. The oil pans increased in price lately, not sure why. When first introduced were in line with the cost of a Baker + 1 which many have purchased for their baggers. If one needs to clean a TC oil pan, the motor should be coming out for new rod bearings, anyway, IMHO.

[turboprop]

No desire to change out the frame crossmember.

That is the one big decision anyone has to make when doing this.
If you are a good machinist you could modify your existing oil pan.
If not you will have to buy a modified one and that was where we drew the line because the price was ridiculous.
I know people go on about OEM stuff and other rubbish but putting a twin cam into a FXR frame is breaking the rules anyway.
With the modified oil pan you will have to pull the motor and transmission if you ever need to clean the oil pan for whatever reason.
With the modified frame you can have one fixed brace and one removable brace which allows access to the oil pan.
Not my photos but what we used to for ideas and it shows removable brace itself plus brace welded in plus second brace in 3rd picture.
There is no one right way it's like I said more than one way to skin a cat and to each their own.

Not true at all.

[JW113]

Dumm question from a dummass that don't know nuthin'. Can a dummass just not use the oil pan under the trans and plumb the stock FXR oil tank to the TC motor?

-JW

[JW113]

it's about altering arguably the best handling HD frame made.

Did you mean best handling "Big Twin" HD frame?


-JW

[turboprop]

Dumm question from a dummass that don't know nuthin'. Can a dummass just not use the oil pan under the trans and plumb the stock FXR oil tank to the TC motor?

-JW

Yes.

[Scotty]

It's not about rules or keeping it OE, it's about altering arguably the best handling HD frame made. A lot of testing went into making that frame what it is. The oil pans increased in price lately, not sure why. When first introduced were in line with the cost of a Baker + 1 which many have purchased for their baggers. If one needs to clean a TC oil pan, the motor should be coming out for new rod bearings, anyway, IMHO.

It's a brace and you are not changing the  frame at all only a brace. Putting the oil tank lower helps with the center or gravity as well.
No handling difference at all.
It might be semantics but altering a frame and brace are not the same to me.
If I altered the rake or cut through any tubing then I would not do it but a brace is nothing.

[Scotty]

Not true at all.

Would not be a easy slide out the rear job and that is obvious from the shape of the pan and the frame braces.

[turboprop]

Not true at all.

Would not be a easy slide out the rear job and that is obvious from the shape of the pan and the frame braces.

Again. Not true. I have modified several TC oil pans. Pics are this site. How many have you modified?

[Scotty]

Again. Not true. I have modified several TC oil pans. Pics are this site. How many have you modified?

None and not afraid to admit it. I have no machining skills whatsoever.
However pics of a oil pan are one thing, do a video showing the oil pan come out with just taking the oil pan screws out because until then it's all internet bullshit.

[Scotty]

If one needs to clean a TC oil pan, the motor should be coming out for new rod bearings, anyway, IMHO.

I answered this part of your statement separately because it's wrong.............very wrong.
My 2002 road king back in late 2003 got a cracked oil pan due to road debris.
Now look at a modified oil pan and look how low it sits at the back to get volume.
It's a disaster waiting to happen IMHO

[Scotty]

Dumm question from a dummass that don't know nuthin'. Can a dummass just not use the oil pan under the trans and plumb the stock FXR oil tank to the TC motor?

-JW

Yes.

Another partial one word answer that is not totally correct.
Up to 2006 not an issue and only minor mods.
2007+ major mods required.
See not everyone is going to use a 99-00 transmission and a 06 down motor so a one word answer will not suffice.

[Deye76]

"t's a disaster waiting to happen IMHO"
BS
On HTT for 16 years and you're the only one who claims a "cracked" oil pan. I've been running bottom oil pans since they came out in 1993, probably over 350,000 miles.

[chipthedonkey]

Everything about this thread so far has been interesting, made me curious, and taught me some too.  Then....  I got too curious.  With no intention other than to satisfy the curiosity looked up the price the two shops mentioned were getting for the conversion oil pans.   

It there were emojis here that were a cross in a manure pile to signal "HOLY CRAP" I'd have used it!  Those are expensive oil pans!!

[JW113]

So do you think this is real? Maybe a typo?

[attach=0]

Seems too good to be true.

-JW

[Scotty]

Time to get this thread back on track.
OP asked a question in public if he had only wanted one person to answer he would have sent a PM.
My original reply only talked about other options and that is all, I have never questioned Turboprops expertise or his skill, however even he has to admit that there is more than one way. I can understand if he is going to help you then doing it his way saves him any issues that crop up and it is other than the oil pan and a bit of grinding on one footpeg mount a painless way to do it. So let's look at the options so that you can choose what suits your budget or level of expertise.
I can do mechanical, wiring and tuning but I am no machinist and so that was not an option for us but I do have access to 2 expert metal fabricators, one who shares my DNA with his mom and one who has been a mate for over 40 years so we went the modify the frame method because it was for us clearly the best choice.
When I started looking into this back in mid 2015 the modded oil pans were not even available I believe but that changed sometime in 2016 from memory an we looked at them but they were $850US back then and now one of them is $1750US so wow on inflation.

These options all relate to 1999-2006 TC motors the 2007+ motors are similar options but that would require another long post.
Be aware that running a 2002-2008 swingarm is going to require use of a 1" bearing wheel and that era brake so also look at this cost and what tranny you are going to run.

Option 1 - leave the bike stock - the EVO motor and 5 speed gearbox are easy to work on and run well enough. Some people don't even realise this in an option.

Option 2 - get a Vulcan Engineering adapter plate and just plonk a 2006 down twin cam motor in and use the EVO transmission. Easy and other than a few wiring mods (ignition etc) and a bit of grinding a cheap way to do it. https://secure.vulcanworks.net/store/Twin-Cam-88-Motor-Adapter-Plate-for-FXR-and-EVO-Dressers.html

Option 3- put a blanking plate on a twin cam transmission and run the original FXR oil tank. http://www.gigacyclegarage.com/oil-pan-and-filler-spout-block-off-plate-for-twincam-installation-into-fxr-frames/

Option 4 - get a metal fabricator to make a couple of new braces and  modify your frame. You can even buy a kit to do it but make sure you have a good welder  https://www.fxrdivision.com/twin-cam-fxr-parts/fxr-twin-cam-conversion-kit
You can even buy a modded 2002 -2008 swingarm that has been modded to run standard FXR shocks so you don't have to order special length. https://www.fxrdivision.com/twin-cam-fxr-parts/fxr-twin-cam-swing-arm

Option 5 - Buy a modded oil pan from one of the vendors and leave the frame as is. If you use a 99-00 bagger tranny the FXR inner and out will bolt up no problems. However if you want to run the 2002-2008 swingarm then you need to buy a kit or machine the tranny for the bigger pivot shaft.

Option 6 - As above but using a 2002-2006 transmission which then doesn't need modding for the swingarm but means you have to machine the inner for mid controls (not hard to do) and also machine off the bagger shifter shaft from the front of the inner primary of just leave it if it does not bother you.

That is just a basic run down on how to do things. Was it easy to do? Yes and no and I still prefer option 1 myself but that is me. I have nothing against anyone that wants to do it and I have no feelings about cutting the braces and changing them on the frame. Damn bikers have been modding stuff on HD's since 1903 so why all the belly aching now about modding a couple of braces?

That ends my participation in this thread as I have better things to do like finish rebuilding a FXR 5 speed that is on my bench and fix the wiring on a old skool Honda 750/4

[hbkeith]

So do you think this is real? Maybe a typo?

[attach=0,msg1352036]

Seems too good to be true.

-JW

probally a scam , usually they want you to email them at so and so @ gmail , call the number i bet it goes to a message service

[Hossamania]

So do you think this is real? Maybe a typo?

[attach=0,msg1352036]

Seems too good to be true.

-JW

It's real, they are in the military, the price is so low as they are shipping out and just want a quick sale, the bike is in a crate ready to ship, no you can't see it because of this, send the money, the bike will be shipped when received.
Go for it.