Fuel Moto 107 or 110

[Jaystn62]

I'll be pulling the trigger on one of these in the next couple days. I've already purchased the Woods TW 777 cams and install kit. I'll be using the stock throttle body for now. I'll also be going with the Level B heads. So what do the experts recommend? The 107 or 110 and upgrade throttle body later.

[FLDavetrain]

I'm no expert but have built multiple 107s and 110s and used those 777s. I would recommend a 55 or 58 tbody 4.9 or 5.3 inj with a good tune. If overall cost is concern, save w the 107 and spend on the tbody

[Jaystn62]

I hate to say it but the throttle body will have to wait. The difference between the kits is only $100. I know I'll need a bigger throttle body to see the full potential of either kit but I have to go with what the budget will allow at this time.

[cheech]

No expert either, but with only $100 dollar spread I'd get the 110.
A few don't like the thin spigots. But meh, what's an extra .032" with the 3.9375" cylinders. 

Search the Dyno runs section for 110".
There's quite a few with drop on 110 kits, stock throttle bodies and heads even.
Pretty much all of them with torque up in the 120's, HP 110 +/- a few range.
But then again a lot of the 107" kits are probably pretty close.
Flip a coin. 
Throttle body seems to get the torque and HP square.
Easy to throw a new throttle body on later.

[Pirsch Fire Wagon]

I use the 107 Kits to refresh engines. Very happy with them. I have a shop 2 miles from my home who does the heads - stock $200 each.

[Justpassingas]

I'm no expert either...I know your on a budget but how's the bottom end???...I went from 96 bored to 107 built by one of the vendors here using Woods TW-7HG-7 gear drives with Stg II heads. Dynoed at 121HP & 127 TQ.

[Jaystn62]

I'm no expert either...I know your on a budget but how's the bottom end???...I went from 96 bored to 107 built by one of the vendors here using Woods TW-7HG-7 gear drives with Stg II heads. Dynoed at 121HP & 127 TQ.

Those are great numbers. I've already purchased the triple 7s and the install kit. Going to have a machinist friend of mine check run out while I have it apart. Hopefully I can get in touch with Fuel Moto sometime today. Their phone line stays pretty busy and their hours seem to be about same as mine so it's hard to get through.

[Bagger]

I'm no expert either...I know your on a budget but how's the bottom end???...I went from 96 bored to 107 built by one of the vendors here using Woods TW-7HG-7 gear drives with Stg II heads. Dynoed at 121HP & 127 TQ.

Good build.  What does the TQ curve look like from 2000-3000 rpms; dyno sheet?

[louloupa]

Fuelmoto posted a dyno chart a few years ago. It was a 107 with a 50 TB vs 55 TB . the difference was tiny, the torque curve of 55 mm is just sligtly to the right of 50 mm . 1 or 2 HP gained .

I have a 107 on my roadking ( SE heads , TW555 , stock 50 TB) . With the stock injectors ( 4.35 ) , the duty cycle reached 100% . I exchanged them with 5.3 SE. Now , i reach 70% .

Warning , the 5.3 SE are actually 4.9 gr/sec .

[Jaystn62]

I shipped my heads off to Fuel Moto yesterday. Once they receive them they are going to contact me with exactly what build I'm going with. I'm still leaning toward the 110 and upgrading the throttle body this winter when funds are available. I know I won't realize the full potential but at least the potential will be there when I'm ready.

[rhuff]

You don't need bigger than a 50mm TB on a 107 or 110, especially with those B level heads IMO.  You'll gain a couple HP at the very top of the top of the RPM range and prob 1 HP and TQ under the curve. 

If you have the $400 for a SE TB, great, if not, don't sweat it. Of course, the nice TB are HPI.

[rking1550]

And remember if you do the throttle body later , you'll have to tune it again, paying twice for the tune. That'll make the cost of doing the throttle body later very expensive  imho.

[Jaystn62]

I understand the retuning part. Part of building a bike I suppose. I'll probably run on a canned map from Fuel Moto until it's broke in then make up my mind about going any further. Who knows....I may not want to go any further. This is the first big bore kit on a bike of my own. Before it's always friends or friends of friends I've wrenched on to hop up.

[Justpassingas]

I'm no expert either...I know your on a budget but how's the bottom end???...I went from 96 bored to 107 built by one of the vendors here using Woods TW-7HG-7 gear drives with Stg II heads. Dynoed at 121HP & 127 TQ.

Good build.  What does the TQ curve look like from 2000-3000 rpms; dyno sheet?

Sorry...Tried posting in dyno section but got deleted...Mods deleted my post here again

[PoorUB]

Dyno charts need to be posted in SAE. Yours were standard. Read the rules.

[Jaystn62]

Well people it's going to be a 107 " with the Level B heads. I sent my heads in this last Saturday. I received an email from Travis at Fuel Moto today stating they received my heads and would take about 3 weeks to process. I called him and also put the 107" Extreme Duty cylinder and piston kit on the order. He said they recommended the 107 kit because they have some tuners burn down the 110 kit because of trying too hard with the tuning and not having proper ventilation. Thank you all for your input. I just like getting ideas from many different positions.

[Deye76]

Why not have your throttle body bored?

[Jaystn62]

Why not have your throttle body bored?

One step at a time. I pretty much busted the budget for now. I'm planning on more mods this winter. Primarily to the drive train and tweaking the engine.

[Tommy D]

Why not have your throttle body bored?

One step at a time. I pretty much busted the budget for now. I'm planning on more mods this winter. Primarily to the drive train and tweaking the engine.

The fee is nominal when doing the BB... oppose to later more labor, another dyno tune involved
Measure twice, cut once method 

[Jaystn62]

Why not have your throttle body bored?

One step at a time. I pretty much busted the budget for now. I'm planning on more mods this winter. Primarily to the drive train and tweaking the engine.

The fee is nominal when doing the BB... oppose to later more labor, another dyno tune involved
Measure twice, cut once method 

Like I said before the budget is already busted. I couldn't really afford to do what I did. And the dyno will have to wait until this winter. This is a real budget build. I have to spread it out over time. I know most of you don't see that or realize it in your builds but it's how I have to do it. I appreciate all the input and advice but in the end I have to do it this way.

[Hossamania]

Looking forward to seeing how it turns out, I've not paid attention to the 777 cam, interested in your opinion once it's all together.
Sure, it's not the perfect build just yet (not many of those exist) but it's pretty substantial and will be a lot of fun.

[Jaystn62]

Looking forward to seeing how it turns out, I've not paid attention to the 777 cam, interested in your opinion once it's all together.
Sure, it's not the perfect build just yet (not many of those exist) but it's pretty substantial and will be a lot of fun.

Travis said it will take about 3 weeks to do the heads. I guess with this Covid 19 a lot of shops are overwhelmed. Every builder I spoke with at Fuel Moto said the same about the triple 7 cams in a 107 with 10.5 compression. Like you said it should be a lot of fun.

[Jaystn62]

You people are a bad influence. I contacted Travis at Fuel Moto today. He said they'd add the throttle body to the current order for a "nominal" fee. SOOOO....I'll be shipping it out tomorrow. Guess I'll add another credit card payment.

[Hossamania]

See how it all comes together? Good on them helping you out, good on you biting the bullet to get the TB done.

[Jaystn62]

When this is all said and done I better be smiling from ear to ear. And hope the Ole Lady don't find out how far I'm in to this or I'll be sleeping with the bike......

[kouack]

When this is all said and done I better be smiling from ear to ear. And hope the Ole Lady don't find out how far I'm in to this or I'll be sleeping with the bike......

This like the government defence budget this is top secret nobody should know where the money goes lol

[Jaystn62]

When this is all said and done I better be smiling from ear to ear. And hope the Ole Lady don't find out how far I'm in to this or I'll be sleeping with the bike......

This like the government defence budget this is top secret nobody should know where the money goes lol

I wish I had the defense budget on this bike....hehehehe

[Coff 06]

When this is all said and done I better be smiling from ear to ear. And hope the Ole Lady don't find out how far I'm in to this or I'll be sleeping with the bike......

AMEN to that one      Last time I upgraded my already pumped up 98".I still spent
another 4K.Thinking I was only going to put another $2500 in it. 
But I'm damn sure SMILING NOW.                 Coff 06

[Jaystn62]

Just an update. Coming together slowly but surely. Fuel Moto has been great. Received all items this last Saturday. Everything looked great.Hopefully be starting it up before this weekend. [attach=0]

[Jaystn62]

Well it's together. I've started it and ran it three times for about a total of 30 mins. I made a rookie mistake and assembled the umbrella breathers wrong. I had oil coming out of pushrod tubes at the top but the o-rings looked fine. Also noise from intake seems to be more excessive. Is this normal during break in? Not sure but might have a cam chest leak or it was left over pushrod tube leak. I'll find out this afternoon. I'd post video of motor running with intake noise but can't seem to get one to post.

[Jaystn62]

It runs. Actually runs like a Banshee. Reversion from intake a little irritating. I added old air cleaner cover from 2012 Super Glide I used to have trying to redirect sound. Oil leaks are gone. Was my mistake with the umbrella breathers. I'm happy with the overall results.

[Tommy D]

It runs. Actually runs like a Banshee. Reversion from intake a little irritating. I added old air cleaner cover from 2012 Super Glide I used to have trying to redirect sound. Oil leaks are gone. Was my mistake with the umbrella breathers. I'm happy with the overall results.

Who tuned it ?

[Jaystn62]

Haven't had it on a dyno yet. Running on map provided by Fuel Moto. I'll be getting it on a dyno this winter when funds are more available.

[kd]

Haven't had it on a dyno yet. Running on map provided by Fuel Moto. I'll be getting it on a dyno this winter when funds are more available.

You do know of course that the map you were given is a "guess" and usually only meant for starting and heat cycles.  You risk everything running it that way (especially like a banshee  ) without having at least an AFR done to know if you are safe. The tune should be part of your build and budget.  Breakin is best handled during the tuning process while monitoring AFR and timing.

[Will-Run]

 

[Tommy D]

Haven't had it on a dyno yet. Running on map provided by Fuel Moto. I'll be getting it on a dyno this winter when funds are more available.

Daren (Durwood) member here, a very reputable tuner... is very close to you, definitely worth reaching out to him.

[Jaystn62]

I appreciate the advice on the dyno tune but because of this covid bs and my budget it's just not possible right now. As far as Durwood, yes his shop is about 35 mins from me. I met with him once back in early 2016. When I get to where I can dyno the bike he'll be the one.

[kd]

What we are saying is that you may want to rethink riding it until you know it is a safe tune.  All can be lost if too lean or rich. $$$$$$

[Jaystn62]

If that is the case then my riding season is over. I reached out to Fuel Moto to get feedback from them.

[Tommy D]

What we are saying is that you may want to rethink riding it until you know it is a safe tune.  All can be lost if too lean or rich. $$$$$$

[Hossamania]

You could ask Daren how much to just do a base run and check afr for you, much less cost than the full tune. At least that would let you know if it's safe to run.
And has been mentioned here so many times, a build budget should always include a proper tune, it should hold as much import as the choice of cam or pistons.

[sfmichael]

110 CID ...all day

[Jaystn62]

I do appreciate all the advice. As I stated before there are no more funds. I have reached out to Fuel Moto for feedback and advice. This Covid-19 BS has me strapped right now. If the bike has to sit it has to sit.

[kd]

He may offer to have a peek at what your PV is indicating if you can record data and send it to him or help you understand it and read it yourself.

[Jaystn62]

I plan on hooking the PV up tomorrow after work and see what I can do. I'll have to go back and look at the video but I've done ok so far other than the umbrella breathers. But that was late on a Friday night and I was trying to look at service manual on my phone......didn't work.

[Jaystn62]

Got reply from Fuel Moto this morning and to say the least I'm quite upset and disappointed. They say this on one hand and say something totally different on the other because of liability. Not going into details. Needless to say my bike will be sitting the rest of this riding season out. I thank everyone that offered advice. If I ever get to the point I can have the bike properly tuned I'll resurrect this thread and let you know the results. Thanks again.

[Hossamania]

Call Daren, he may be able to help you out. Phone calls are free.

[Hossamania]

I also wanted to say congratulations on a job well done, it sounds like it runs well. Hopefully you can get it dialed in quickly and get a chance to enjoy it soon.

[Jaystn62]

I called Daren this afternoon and filled him in. He gave me the price of a full tune and I told him as soon as I had the funds I'd be calling him back. I'll try to work it out to get it done as quickly as possible.

[Jaystn62]

I called Daren this afternoon and filled him in. He gave me the price of a full tune and I told him as soon as I had the funds I'd be calling him back. I'll try to work it out to get it done as quickly as possible.

Thanks Hoss....my first major build on a Harley. I made a couple rookie mistakes but overall I enjoyed it. Like to find a Breakout now and do maybe a 113 build on it......

[PoorUB]

Jay, just busting your chops a bit, but why do the build when you can not afford to finish, (tune), it?

Personally, if money was tight, I would have bought the parts and sat on them until I could finish it.

[Jaystn62]

I'm a rookie at Harleys as far as builds and fuel injection. I knew I had the mechanical ability. On the tune side I felt I was assured I'd be ok with a "custom" map for my Power Vision. After last couple days of what people have posted here and talking to Durwood this afternoon I feel it's better to leave it alone until I can do a complete tune. Not going into details. Just better to leave the bike alone for now. It is what it is.

[kd]

I'm a rookie at Harleys as far as builds and fuel injection. I knew I had the mechanical ability. On the tune side I felt I was assured I'd be ok with a "custom" map for my Power Vision. After last couple days of what people have posted here and talking to Durwood this afternoon I feel it's better to leave it alone until I can do a complete tune. Not going into details. Just better to leave the bike alone for now. It is what it is.

Jay, I would say that leaving the tune out of the budget and not realizing how important it is to your engine survival are the 2 biggest mistakes seen here.  As time goes on, you become more aware of things like "custom maps" without actually tuning.    There will always be those that get lucky and it's their time and money so go for it.  For the most part, advice to do the break-in on a dyno and tune it before riding it is some of the best advice given out on this site period.  Not knowing how important it is and including it in the budget is real common. It may be no big deal and hopefully for you will turn out just fine. You will be in GOOD hands with Daren.

[Jaystn62]

I'm a rookie at Harleys as far as builds and fuel injection. I knew I had the mechanical ability. On the tune side I felt I was assured I'd be ok with a "custom" map for my Power Vision. After last couple days of what people have posted here and talking to Durwood this afternoon I feel it's better to leave it alone until I can do a complete tune. Not going into details. Just better to leave the bike alone for now. It is what it is.

Jay, I would say that leaving the tune out of the budget and not realizing how important it is to your engine survival are the 2 biggest mistakes seen here.  As time goes on, you become more aware of things like "custom maps" without actually tuning.    There will always be those that get lucky and it's their time and money so go for it.  For the most part, advice to do the break-in on a dyno and tune it before riding it is some of the best advice given out on this site period.  Not knowing how important it is and including it in the budget is real common. It may be no big deal and hopefully for you will turn out just fine. You will be in GOOD hands with Daren.

I appreciate all of your advice. And believe me I am heeding it now. I have heat cycled the bike 6 times and ridden it about 60 miles. I talked to Daren this afternoon and he seemed to believe I'm ok. Other than the reversion sound from the intake bike sounds great and has used no oil so far.

[PoorUB]

I'm a rookie at Harleys as far as builds and fuel injection. I knew I had the mechanical ability. On the tune side I felt I was assured I'd be ok with a "custom" map for my Power Vision. After last couple days of what people have posted here and talking to Durwood this afternoon I feel it's better to leave it alone until I can do a complete tune. Not going into details. Just better to leave the bike alone for now. It is what it is.

Fair enough!

I always did my builds over the winter lay over and scheduled tunes first thing in the spring. Then later on I just street tuned myself.

[Jaystn62]

I'm a rookie at Harleys as far as builds and fuel injection. I knew I had the mechanical ability. On the tune side I felt I was assured I'd be ok with a "custom" map for my Power Vision. After last couple days of what people have posted here and talking to Durwood this afternoon I feel it's better to leave it alone until I can do a complete tune. Not going into details. Just better to leave the bike alone for now. It is what it is.

Fair enough!

I always did my builds over the winter lay over and scheduled tunes first thing in the spring. Then later on I just street tuned myself.

I had planned to do just cams and finish the build over the winter but circumstances changed my mind. I enjoyed it and plan to do more after this covid bs is over and can get back to making money. I'd like to do a big build on a late Dyna or twin cam Breakout some day.

[Jaystn62]

Just an update. I made plans with Daren to drop the bike off Saturday morning and he's going to get it in sometime next week to tune it. Talked to Ole Lady last night and decided to bite the bullet. At least try to get a little riding in before season is over. Might be a little lean on Christmas this year but oh well. I report back with the results.

[jsachs1]

Finishing up a 107" with KB line to line pistons. Should be to the dyno on Friday or next Monday. Had a helper inspecting the work. [attach=0] John

[Tommy D]

 

Finishing up a 107" with KB line to line pistons. Should be to the dyno on Friday or next Monday. Had a helper inspecting the work. [attach=0,msg1361855] John

[Jaystn62]

Well it's done. I pick it up tomorrow morning from Daren. Numbers are Max Torque 121.76 @3790 and Max Power 114.75 @6130. I posted dyno sheet in the dyno section. It's waiting approval. I'm pretty impressed. Thanks Durwood.

[sfmichael]

Well it's done. I pick it up tomorrow morning from Daren. Numbers are Max Torque 121.76 @3790 and Max Power 114.75 @6130. I posted dyno sheet in the dyno section. It's waiting approval. I'm pretty impressed. Thanks Durwood.

very impressive 

[Jaystn62]

Well it's done. I pick it up tomorrow morning from Daren. Numbers are Max Torque 121.76 @3790 and Max Power 114.75 @6130. I posted dyno sheet in the dyno section. It's waiting approval. I'm pretty impressed. Thanks Durwood.

very impressive 

TY....Being my first big bore build and first time I put one of my bikes on a dyno I'm impressed and happy it held together. I appreciate all the advice and hell everyone on this forum has given me. Now I'm ready to do another.....

[kd]

Well it's done. I pick it up tomorrow morning from Daren. Numbers are Max Torque 121.76 @3790 and Max Power 114.75 @6130. I posted dyno sheet in the dyno section. It's waiting approval. I'm pretty impressed. Thanks Durwood.

very impressive 

TY....Being my first big bore build and first time I put one of my bikes on a dyno I'm impressed and happy it held together. I appreciate all the advice and hell everyone on this forum has given me. Now I'm ready to do another.....

Nice job. You're screwed now.       

[Jaystn62]

Well it's done. I pick it up tomorrow morning from Daren. Numbers are Max Torque 121.76 @3790 and Max Power 114.75 @6130. I posted dyno sheet in the dyno section. It's waiting approval. I'm pretty impressed. Thanks Durwood.

very impressive 

TY....Being my first big bore build and first time I put one of my bikes on a dyno I'm impressed and happy it held together. I appreciate all the advice and hell everyone on this forum has given me. Now I'm ready to do another.....

Nice job. You're screwed now.       

Haha...you so funny.....

[jsachs1]

Finishing up a 107" with KB line to line pistons. Should be to the dyno on Friday or next Monday. Had a helper inspecting the work. [attach=0,msg1361855] John

Results on the 107" build. [attach=0]
Blue line 4 th gear.
Yellow line 5 th gear.
John

[Jaystn62]

That looks great.

[George W]

Finishing up a 107" with KB line to line pistons. Should be to the dyno on Friday or next Monday. Had a helper inspecting the work. [attach=0,msg1361855] John

Results on the 107" build. [attach=0,msg1362710]
Blue line 4 th gear.
Yellow line 5 th gear.
John

Can you please list the parts used for your 107..

[rhuff]

Shoulda just gone 117 or 124 while you were in there.

Kidding!  It's addictive tho.... enjoy and glad you got it tuned right. 

[Jaystn62]

Shoulda just gone 117 or 124 while you were in there.

Kidding!  It's addictive tho.... enjoy and glad you got it tuned right.

It's a fun ride now for sure. I'd like to do a 113 or so in a Dyna or maybe a twin cam Breakout.

[jsachs1]

Finishing up a 107" with KB line to line pistons. Should be to the dyno on Friday or next Monday. Had a helper inspecting the work. [attach=0,msg1361855] John

Results on the 107" build. [attach=0,msg1362710]
Blue line 4 th gear.
Yellow line 5 th gear.
John

KB 107" piston kit, S&S 103 cams, 58 mm t-body, My 88"-103" head castings port & valve work, D&D Fat cat wrapped baffle 2 into 1 pipe, Alto "Carbonite" Xtraplate clutch & spring. Power Vision tune.
John

[kd]

With that combination, I'm guessing it's the heads that are the cream rising to the top. Very nice John.  All the power where it is most likely to get used. 

[Jaystn62]

I have to admit I always ran my bikes between 2500 to 3000 just because it sounded happier. I find now I'm between 2900 to 3200 maybe 3300. Motor sounds real happy. That makes sense?

[Hossamania]

I have to admit I always ran my bikes between 2500 to 3000 just because it sounded happier. I find now I'm between 2900 to 3200 maybe 3300. Motor sounds real happy. That makes sense?

It does make sense, different cams have different sweet spots.

[sfmichael]

"KB 107" piston kit, S&S 103 cams, 58 mm t-body, My 88"-103" head castings port & valve work, D&D Fat cat wrapped baffle 2 into 1 pipe, Alto "Carbonite" Xtraplate clutch & spring. Power Vision tune."
John

HP103 or MR103?

[HogMike]

I have to admit I always ran my bikes between 2500 to 3000 just because it sounded happier. I find now I'm between 2900 to 3200 maybe 3300. Motor sounds real happy. That makes sense?

It does make sense, different cams have different sweet spots.

I've found the same results
Different motors, cams, heads dictate the sweet spot in the rpm range. Something you can feel.

[jsachs1]

"KB 107" piston kit, S&S 103 cams, 58 mm t-body, My 88"-103" head castings port & valve work, D&D Fat cat wrapped baffle 2 into 1 pipe, Alto "Carbonite" Xtraplate clutch & spring. Power Vision tune."
John

HP103 or MR103?

HP

[sfmichael]

"KB 107" piston kit, S&S 103 cams, 58 mm t-body, My 88"-103" head castings port & valve work, D&D Fat cat wrapped baffle 2 into 1 pipe, Alto "Carbonite" Xtraplate clutch & spring. Power Vision tune."
John

HP103 or MR103?

HP

the graph looks great  well done 

how does it ride?
is it torquey or more of a hp build?

[Clayster]

Finishing up a 107" with KB line to line pistons. Should be to the dyno on Friday or next Monday. Had a helper inspecting the work. [attach=0,msg1361855] John

Results on the 107" build. [attach=0,msg1362710]
Blue line 4 th gear.
Yellow line 5 th gear.
John

KB 107" piston kit, S&S 103 cams, 58 mm t-body, My 88"-103" head castings port & valve work, D&D Fat cat wrapped baffle 2 into 1 pipe, Alto "Carbonite" Xtraplate clutch & spring. Power Vision tune.
John

Very nice outcome.  If you don't mind me asking, who was the tuner?

[jsachs1]

Road Hog M/Cycles. Enterprise, Fla. Strictly Power Commander, and Power Vision.
407 688-0096 Rob
John

[Bagger]

Very nice 107" results, especially that it comes on at 2300 rpms and climbs from there.

May I ask, is the dyno sheet in SAE or STD?