Some help with build details 98”

[Don D]

tman 590 and the woods 8 ^^^^^
The dead give away are the differences in overlap. The seat to seat timing on the two cams is very different, so is the operating noise level.
I still run a 1.575" exhaust valve on most 98" builds with my Street Pro Heads. this is not a cost decision.

[Ohio HD]

I wouldn't use the 8's, I'd use the 6's as shown in the sheets listed above. The Wood 6 cams aren't clackers like the 8's are.


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[Don D]

Given the choice of the three and if noise was a factor I would go right to the TR590. Bonus more of a top end charge. Assumes 10.8 can be achieved. I no longer use CP Bullet series pistons and prefer Mahle pistons for the same bore. 9cc dome at 85cc chamber is perfect, just a light mill.

[Johnwesley]

When looking at cam specs you only get to see the intended actions of the valve opening and closing. When you can't see is lobe shape that can also effect how a cam can add to how well it will work in an application.

Here's how I decide, once narrowed down to a couple cams, looking at similar builds with dyno sheets to review. For a street bike I would lean in the direction of what RPM range you honestly will be riding in. ALMOST everyone rides between 3,000 to 5,000 RPM on the open road. In town they ride anywhere from 2,000 to 4,000 RPM. 98% of the time these are the RPM's you're in. So pick what looks to give what you want in those RPM's.

If you really must have the most power at top end and not concerned with anything else, that makes the selection easier. But the 98% of people are unhappy with that selection. It's a common thing called "over cammed" where the bike may not perform where you really ride.

Secondly but not by any means last, if you're using Joe Lyons to tune the bike. Talk to him. He has first hand experience with many cams in similar sized motors and exhaust combinations. I would trust Joe to steer me in the right direction.

I have an email into him to get some advice. If I don't hear back I'll call. For me the 3+ is the range I want and spend a lot of time in. My town riding is 2500-3000, but that's not where I need power. I'm just putting through our small town and I avoid cities like the plague. My worst city style driving is Sturgis every year. I really like to hav power on the big roads where my bike is turning 3200-4000 rpm.

Given the choice of the three and if noise was a factor I would go right to the TR590. Bonus more of a top end charge. Assumes 10.8 can be achieved. I no longer use CP Bullet series pistons and prefer Mahle pistons for the same bore. 9cc dome at 85cc chamber is perfect, just a light mill.

10.8 is easy to hit so looks like 590 is the cam to go to. One honest question what is it about the 585 that you do not like? And what is the difference in feel on the bike? Considering they are both set at 10.8. I have time with the 585 but never even rode a bike with the 590.

[Don D]

I have very few cams I don't like. I just sold an S&S 585 but it was for a specific application where it worked well. I do and have seen many combinations of parts I don't like. The reasons are many but if we are looking at the 585 VS the TR590 in a hypothetical situation without all the facts about the build the exhaust duration tells part of the story why. The porting done on the exhaust side, the exhaust valve choice, and the pipe all come into play.  The simple answer is the TR590 is less exhaust sensitive. The 585 has +10° exhaust duration and opens the exhaust 5° earlier, based on numbers at .053" lift. Intakes look similar but knowing what I do about the lobes I suspect the S&S has longer seat to seat timing on both sides.

[Johnwesley]

I have very few cams I don't like. I just sold an S&S 585 but it was for a specific application where it worked well. I do and have seen many combinations of parts I don't like. The reasons are many but if we are looking at the 585 VS the TR590 in a hypothetical situation without all the facts about the build the exhaust duration tells part of the story why. The porting done on the exhaust side, the exhaust valve choice, and the pipe all come into play.  The simple answer is the TR590 is less exhaust sensitive. The 585 has +10° exhaust duration and opens the exhaust 5° earlier, based on numbers at .053" lift. Intakes look similar but knowing what I do about the lobes I suspect the S&S has longer seat to seat timing on both sides.

Thanks for the Information. The ex valve is 1.61 on this build and the exhaust system is currently fat cat with big bore baffle. If need be can change to louvered baffle.

With the seat time difference and more overlap I see how it gives more control to the exhaust build. With what you said and the exhaust I have what do you see in the difference? For example both cams come on about the same rpm but the 590 feels stronger or the 590 comes on about 2800 and pulls out the top them same or?

[838]

Given the choice of the three and if noise was a factor I would go right to the TR590. Bonus more of a top end charge. Assumes 10.8 can be achieved. I no longer use CP Bullet series pistons and prefer Mahle pistons for the same bore. 9cc dome at 85cc chamber is perfect, just a light mill.

At 10.5 would the 590 work well +4*?

[Don D]

Hard to tell, but open the door sooner and close it later and first send work out the pipe then on the other side if there is more overlap you risk drawing intake down the pipe or exhaust  into the intake. Either one is not good. An efi engine does not need excessive  overlap and it is a risk how well it will work. It's no secret that is what HD did with their E series cams, they are very close to the earlier discontinued counterparts except lobe centers moved out wider.

[C-Cat]

An efi engine does not need excessive  overlap
I bought TMan 590PS2's and noticed less overlap than the original 590's and the exhaust timing is different, intake timing and exhaust duration has slight changes also

[Don D]

Given the choice of the three and if noise was a factor I would go right to the TR590. Bonus more of a top end charge. Assumes 10.8 can be achieved. I no longer use CP Bullet series pistons and prefer Mahle pistons for the same bore. 9cc dome at 85cc chamber is perfect, just a light mill.

At 10.5 would the 590 work well +4*?

I wouldn't mess with it, the exhaust opening at 59 won't be real great regardless of what happened on the intake side

[sfmichael]

I wouldn't use the 8's, I'd use the 6's as shown in the sheets listed above. The Wood 6 cams aren't clackers like the 8's are.


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Brian is that the latest gen 590 on your chart?

[Ohio HD]

I wouldn't use the 8's, I'd use the 6's as shown in the sheets listed above. The Wood 6 cams aren't clackers like the 8's are.


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Brian is that the latest gen 590 on your chart?

That's the original 590. 

[C-Cat]

Please be sure to consult a professional before making your choice.



Open   Close   Lift   Duration   Centerline   TDC   LSA   Overlap
Intake   23   43   590   246   100   0.212   105   38
Exhaust   55   15   590   250   110   0.165   

[C-Cat]

https://tmanperformance.com/product/t-man-590-ps/

[Johnwesley]

Please be sure to consult a professional before making your choice.



Open   Close   Lift   Duration   Centerline   TDC   LSA   Overlap
Intake   23   43   590   246   100   0.212   105   38
Exhaust   55   15   590   250   110   0.165

Thanks for the advice 
I have talked to what I believe to be professionals. Tman being one of them.

[C-Cat]

The statement was  accidental. I was trying to only copy cams specs from Tmans Website.

[Johnwesley]

I'm Trying to keep this in one place. I thought the fat cat would be the go to exhaust and after several calls Decided on the louvered baffle.

The problem is I've had the exhaust on order for a month now, I was just told at least another month before they come in. So what other exhaust could be used and make decent horsepower?

I'm looking at the road rage with the long muffler. Open to other options. Seems no one has the long primaries that the Fatcat has. It is possible to get the Boarzilla just not sure what I would give up going that route.

[FXDBI]

Fuel moto E-Pipe, has long primaries ,  and isn't noisy.  Engine seems to really like the pipe.  Bob

[Johnwesley]

They don't show those fitting the 05 and down Dyna, I could call and check though

[C-Cat]

I'm Trying to keep this in one place. I thought the fat cat would be the go to exhaust and after several calls Decided on the louvered baffle.

The problem is I've had the exhaust on order for a month now, I was just told at least another month before they come in. So what other exhaust could be used and make decent horsepower?

I'm looking at the road rage with the long muffler. Open to other options. Seems no one has the long primaries that the Fatcat has. It is possible to get the Boarzilla just not sure what I would give up going that route.

I ordered a Boarzilla from D&D and had it in a week. Rush Wrath or Dragos 2 into 1 are options

[Johnwesley]

I'm Trying to keep this in one place. I thought the fat cat would be the go to exhaust and after several calls Decided on the louvered baffle.

The problem is I've had the exhaust on order for a month now, I was just told at least another month before they come in. So what other exhaust could be used and make decent horsepower?

I'm looking at the road rage with the long muffler. Open to other options. Seems no one has the long primaries that the Fatcat has. It is possible to get the Boarzilla just not sure what I would give up going that route.

I ordered a Boarzilla from D&D and had it in a week. Rush Wrath or Dragos 2 into 1 are options

I called Wes and he had a lot of pipe options. THat said he recently did a 103 for a guy and he insisted on the silla over the fat cat and the silla beat it at every rpm from 2,000-red line

[Johnwesley]

I'm Trying to keep this in one place. I thought the fat cat would be the go to exhaust and after several calls Decided on the louvered baffle.

The problem is I've had the exhaust on order for a month now, I was just told at least another month before they come in. So what other exhaust could be used and make decent horsepower?

I'm looking at the road rage with the long muffler. Open to other options. Seems no one has the long primaries that the Fatcat has. It is possible to get the Boarzilla just not sure what I would give up going that route.

I ordered a Boarzilla from D&D and had it in a week. Rush Wrath or Dragos 2 into 1 are options

I called d&d direct and they are saying another 6weeks on all pipes for an 05 dyna, so I am going the quite direction and hope it doesn't hurt performance to much. Supermeg is what I have ordered now and it should ship the 1st of September.

haven't seen many dynos with this pipe to see how it works on a dyna.

[838]

Did you decide on the 590? What else will you be doing to this 98"?

[Johnwesley]

Did you decide on the 590? What else will you be doing to this 98"?

I haven't settled on a cam yet, I have a list may end up throwing a dart everyone involved has a different cam recommendation that leaves me scratching my head a bit on it.
build details are

55/58 the
10cc dome pistons 3.937
Heads 1.9 intake 1.61 exhaust
10.8 compression
Super meg exhaust
Tune at powerhouse dyno
Stock 05 Dyna gearing

[Coff 06]

Did you decide on the 590? What else will you be doing to this 98"?

I haven't settled on a cam yet, I have a list may end up throwing a dart everyone involved has a different cam recommendation that leaves me scratching my head a bit on it.
build details are

55/58 the
10cc dome pistons 3.937
Heads 1.9 intake 1.61 exhaust
10.8 compression
Super meg exhaust
Tune at powerhouse dyno
Stock 05 Dyna gearing

Almost the same build I did a couple of years ago.It's been at 98" for 10 years.
I went with the Woods 9B after being recommended by the person doing my heads.
Runs like a scalded dog.I couldn't be happier.But I was going for high Horsepower this time 123/118.
        Coff 06