M8 114 w/Stage IV Upgrade - engine ping

[s1c1l1an]

Hello, I'm new to the forum and this is my first post.

I live in Denver CO and I recently purchased a 2019 Street Glide Special w/a M8 114, which already had the Stage IV upgrade performed [what an awesome ride!!!]. The bike had 5,000 miles on it and the 5k maintenance performed when I purchased it. I've ridden the bike approximately 250 miles since purchasing, and noticed a slight engine ping here and there, occurring at take-off and rolling on throttle from steady as I start to ascend [my 110lb wife had been on the back of the bike when this occurred]. This past weekend we road up into the mountains [first time] and the ping started about 25 miles into the ride as I started to ascend into the mountains. The further I got the more the ping occurred; it occurred regularly as I held the throttle steady and would start to roll it over. Once into the higher RPM's it would dissipate. It kept getting worse though [pinging constantly] as I road further and higher. I finally turned the bike around and went home. The pinging continued as I got down out of the mountains and road home, just not as bad at that point. I've searched many forums and there is all kinds of anecdotal info that might be coming into play, but I'm wondering if there is a sure way to troubleshoot and diagnose before I take it into the dealership for an assessment [I'd like to go in w/some knowledge]. I'm providing the following if it's helpful. Is there a logical answer to what is occurring on my bike?
•   I use high octane gas from Conoco regularly [gas was fresh in the bike on the day of the ride]
•   It was 100 degrees outside on the day of the ride into the mountains.
•   Wife was on the back during the ride
•   Engine does seem to be pretty hot.
•   No smoke is coming out
•   No dash lights coming on
•   I don't lug the bike
•   The ping usually occurs between 2700 – 3200 RPMs, especially after I've been riding it for a while.
•   Not sure what oil Harley used when the performed the 5,000 maintenance

Any thoughts/recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks! 

[Pirsch Fire Wagon]

It should be under warranty. I would begin with the Dealer's Service Department.

Stage III and IV can be strange animals.  All due to EPA.

There is an up-dated Flash available but you may already have that. We have actually downgraded the flash to correct problems such as yours. Your's may be the older Flash. They come out every month or so and, there has been a boatload. Even for Stock tunes.

[scott7d]

I was in Colorado three weeks ago. On the way up Pike's Peak, my bike was pinging like a popcorn maker. There was nothing I could do to get it to stop. My friend had the same bike as me, and his was doing it also. 

Definitely something about climbing elevation that it didn't like. I hope you get it worked out!

[s1c1l1an]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback.

I've gone ahead and scheduled the bike to go into the shop for some review.

Definitely heard about the elevation gains and pinging that can occur. Tuning is often brought up in this scenario, from what I've read. I've had several Harley's previously and believe it or not, none of them pinged when riding in the mountains. Hoping a tune is all that's needed.

Thanks again for the input.

[HV]

Have the dealer check for knock sensors working properly..... Does the Bike Smoke on start up after sitting all night ? Make sure all plug wires are tight on the Coils

[s1c1l1an]

HV,

No the bike doesn't smoke on startup after a night of sitting. Will mention/check on your recommendations.

Thank you!

[BigT]

I would check the spark plugs in each cylinder to see how they look. Might be loaded with carbon from a not so perfect tune.

[s1c1l1an]

Bike is in the shop, so I'll post the results when I get it back ;-)

[s1c1l1an]

Well, my local Harley shop backed off the timing by 3 degrees. They could find any issues/concerns after putting it under load.

I've taken the bike into the mountains a few times, with and without my wife, and heard the ping a few times, but nothing nearly as much as the time I described in this post. One thing for sure is present every time I hear it; I've been riding for a while and the engine is hot. The hotter it is outside [with load too] the more the ping.

Perhaps I should look at alternative ways to get more air or cool the engine. Hmmm...

[kd]

After re-reading the opening post I suspect you may be rolling it on a little too hard for the low rpm / load / temp / altitude ratio. You indicate it doesn't occur at the higher rpm's. 
At what rpm do you ride in when it happens?  What rpm does it go away?
At what rpm does it  not occur at when rolling it on? 

We all love that low rpm torque and tractor feel but it is not reasonable to expect it to do everything at all rpm ranges.

[Sunny Jim]

And this is why I use a power vision.

[PoorUB]

Well, my local Harley shop backed off the timing by 3 degrees. They could find any issues/concerns after putting it under load.

I've taken the bike into the mountains a few times, with and without my wife, and heard the ping a few times, but nothing nearly as much as the time I described in this post. One thing for sure is present every time I hear it; I've been riding for a while and the engine is hot. The hotter it is outside [with load too] the more the ping.

Perhaps I should look at alternative ways to get more air or cool the engine. Hmmm...

Your problem is typical for an engine the needs more tuning. The 3 degree reduction in timing obviously helped, but it sounds like it needs timing removed in some areas.

Did the shop back off the timing 3 degrees across the whole tune, or just certain areas? A decent tuner will adjust areas of the tune independently.

A properly tuned bike will run fine from sea level and over the mountains too.

[bobrk1]

I  agree  with  poor , my 12 ultra  pinged  almost  constantly  and  I  live  at sea level .  Had it dyno  tuned  and  now  runs  great , only  thing  I  noticed  is at high  altitude  like  the  mountains  it loses power  because  of  thin  air .

[HogMike]

I  agree  with  poor , my 12 ultra  pinged  almost  constantly  and  I  live  at sea level .  Had it dyno  tuned  and  now  runs  great , only  thing  I  noticed  is at high  altitude  like  the  mountains  it loses power  because  of  thin  air .

I've had my "stage IV" 2010 limited from below sea level to over 14,000 ft and it started and ran just fine. Yes, low on power at altitude but perfect road manners you need on Mt
Evans!

Took my stock 2014 over the same route and it still ran decent, just not as smooth as the tuned bike.
JME

[Pirsch Fire Wagon]

If it were done in 2019, it was flashed using the Stage-IV Calibration which prior to the most recent release. At that time the Stage Cals had several issues; pinging being one.

We were told to reflash a Stage-III Calibration to correct the problem [that was one of the stupidest suggestions I'd ever heard].

Since [six months ago maybe] updated calibrations were approved by EPA and released a 49 State Cal allowing the Tuner a wider adjustment area.

I can't speak to the success of the new calibrations as I have been gone for almost a year.

The issue with the Calibrations and Street Tuner is they are so limited as to how much of ANYTHING can be adjusted. The limits in the parameters are very narrow. the newest ones were supposed to be +/- 4 and +/10 or something of that order.

You may want to ask the Service Department if it has the latest Flash and if they're using the latest updates..... Nope, better yet, take it there and have them check it. Otherwise they may just say "sure....".

It only takes a few minutes to check, if that.

Worth a shot.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Tune is off.

[pauly]

Hi,

To me, that indicates it can possibly be resolved with a more comprehensive analysis of the tune. Perhaps getting the bike loaded up on a Dyno can replicate the ping so it can be tuned out.
Either way - do your best to get rid of it because it's hellish on the engine!
Thanks
Pauly

Well, my local Harley shop backed off the timing by 3 degrees. They could find any issues/concerns after putting it under load.

I've taken the bike into the mountains a few times, with and without my wife, and heard the ping a few times, but nothing nearly as much as the time I described in this post. One thing for sure is present every time I hear it; I've been riding for a while and the engine is hot. The hotter it is outside [with load too] the more the ping.

Perhaps I should look at alternative ways to get more air or cool the engine. Hmmm...

[kd]

Still no answer for what rpm it occurs at? You did mention it was with a roll on.  Even though they sound cool tractoring along, they really don't like it.  They like it loaded down even less.  You can only tune out lugging detonation to a point. 

[92flhtcu]

KD-its says 2700-3200rpm in his original post, and I agree, under-load, hot day, it probably doesn't like a roll on in 6th at 2700

[kd]

   I actually went back and read the earlier posts looking for it too.   

[Deye76]

From the OP,
" I don't lug the bike"
Run some Seafoam through the intake before next oil change, might have carbon build up, if that doesn't help, it's the tune. Some dealers are not the best tuners. Find a tuner with a good reputation.