Which lifter is it..?

[motorhogman]

Maybe an intake/exhaust pushrod are swapped?

Definitely not.. I did that once before.. This bike runs great. I mean for a stock little 88 incher.  I replaced these lifters in January.

[motorhogman]

Why not wiggle the pushrods when cold and on the base circle. Check and more than likely the one that wiggles, is loose, change that lifter out with a new one. Like I said they are all not perfect.

That's what I'll do next time she sits for a week.  thanx

[kd]

For the cost of a filter, have you considered changing it and cutting the present one open to see if there is some metal showing up?  If it's debris from wear there's a good chance it may show up in the pleats too.

[motorhogman]

I have heard the original lifters in the twin cam (before the b series) were made by Johnson.  They were in my 99 when new and did this from day one until they were replaced with the B lifters.  As long as it goes away in a few seconds I wouldn't worry about it.   I have heard lots of cars do this too.

Mine were replaced by the dealer when the bike was very new.. less than 10,000 mi.  I had it in for a leaky  shock if I recall and they called me and said when they started it the lifters were clacking pretty good and they were going to change them on warranty. I have no idea what they replaced them with..Actually can't recall if it was 1 lifter or all....To long ago

[motorhogman]

Playing eenie meenie miney moe isnt a good way to sort this out.
Set of new ones are how much $$ ?
Piece of mind is priceless.
Rob

Not that much... But I just replaced them.. only 2500 mi ago..

My thinking is if I do find something mechanically wrong I will replace them all...First I want to eliminate the possibility of debris being the problem.

[motorhogman]

After sitting for however long it takes for this to happen,  pop the clips and slide the tubes up- can you push down on any of the pushrods (enough to see the lifter cup depress)? Any cup that can be depressed with finger pressure is suspect.

Yes sir. that will be my approach  TY

[motorhogman]

For the cost of a filter, have you considered changing it and cutting the present one open to see if there is some metal showing up?  If it's debris from wear there's a good chance it may show up in the pleats too.

Thanx KD

I just did that about 200 mi ago when I changed the oil.  Filter pleats were clean. It was doing this before the oil and filter change. I always open my filters up..
I learned that on here a while back.. That's what got me to change my tensioner pads after only 7000 mi a while back.. Most people that looked at the pics of my tensioners said they would run them.. Had it apart so I changed then any way..

[JohnnyCashPan]

2001 FLHT stock cams and push rods. Running Liqui Moly 10 - 60 Very recent oil and filter change.

I replaced my lifters 2,500 mi ago this past winter with Hylft Johnson 2313 S lifters.

The issue I have is if the bike sits for more than 4 or 5 days one of them is bleeding down big time.

Here's my observations.  10-60 oil is a little lighter than 20-50, so it may leak past easier.  I'm not sure it's adequate for bottom end bearings as a side note.
V2313-S is a performance lifter for high lift cams, but I'm unsure that has any impact.
Stock pushrods are fine for stock valve train components.  If I remember correctly, Johnson said in their instructions that stock pushrods are fine with their stock lifters.  I disagree with this, since the Johnsons are not factory, they would require different and specific adjustment.

I'm not a factory trained Harley Master mechanic, so these comments are just my opinion.

[motorhogman]

2001 FLHT stock cams and push rods. Running Liqui Moly 10 - 60 Very recent oil and filter change.

I replaced my lifters 2,500 mi ago this past winter with Hylft Johnson 2313 S lifters.

The issue I have is if the bike sits for more than 4 or 5 days one of them is bleeding down big time.

Here's my observations.  10-60 oil is a little lighter than 20-50, so it may leak past easier.  I'm not sure it's adequate for bottom end bearings as a side note.
V2313-S is a performance lifter for high lift cams, but I'm unsure that has any impact.
Stock pushrods are fine for stock valve train components.  If I remember correctly, Johnson said in their instructions that stock pushrods are fine with their stock lifters.  I disagree with this, since the Johnsons are not factory, they would require different and specific adjustment.

I'm not a factory trained Harley Master mechanic, so these comments are just my opinion.

I don't think it's the the oil. I'd guess that all the lifters would be clacking if it was an oil viscosity issue ?  Been running the Liqui Moly now for the past 3 or 4 changes. 15,000 mi or more with no noises. ( ok..just normal noises LOL) OP gauge actually runs a tick higher at 3000 rpm than it did with amsoil, quick silver or HD 20 50.. on a 90 degree day.

There are lots of TC riders using 10 60 without any issues on here.

I'm gonna go with the application being a non issue. I asked for lifters for a stock TC 88 and a very reliable vendor on here supplied them. Total faith in his knowledge.  There is no V on the PN #  just 2313 S

What I'm looking for and expect to find when I do.. A defective lifter.. or debris stuck in a lifter..

Time will tell.. Just need to stay off the bike for a week.. Then start by lifting the push rod tubes for an inspection.. Nothing obvious, then off come the rocker covers and out come the lifters for a white rag disassemble...

This is some of our best riding weather in SC so it may be a while before i get to it..

I will post what I find when I get there.

[motorhogman]

Update:

Went out this am pulled the push rod clips and check for any looseness while pushing the push rods down into the lifters..

Cleaned the oil off and had a good grip with a rag..

2 were on base circle and no way were they going to push down.. I could turn them with some resistance.

2 had some cam lift on them, same result Couldn't push them down or turn them..

Started the bike up and two real quick hammer on a cast iron frying pan BANGS and them norm.

I couldn't tell which one it was even with my head right down there with PR tubes suspended with rubber bands.. Just happens to quick..

I know I could remove them all and take them apart to check for debris... I doubt if I'd find any..

I'm about ready to just order a set of S&S lifters.

That noise irritates me GREATLY..

[motorhogman]

UPDATE:

Took the lifters out.. Disassembled on a white rag.. I see no debris.  Just clean oil.

Don't know what else to do other than replace them..

[Big Cahuna]

Lifters will drive you nutz. 3 years ago I had my cam shoe's checked. My bike was all stock with 65k on the motor, never apart. I never had a lifter bleed down or make any strange noise. After having the shoes replaced, I had the guy throw a set of 203 cams in it ,with a new set of SE lifters, and adjustable push rods . Everything was fine until a few months later. I stated it up one morning and a lifter started hammering for about 2 minutes, then quieted up. Every couple of months it did that . Didn't matter how long it sat, somethings only a week would pass, and it would do it. It sat for 2 1/2/ months when I had my knee replaced, and when I started it it didn't make a sound . As far as being loud when running, My thought on that is, I never weighed the stock push rods and compared them to the new adjustable's. I know steel and other metals expand at different rates when they get heated up. And my thought is maybe the push rods don't expand as much as the cylinders and heads do, and that actually makes the rods a bit looser then they need to be. And if a lifter had head spring pressure on it when the motor is shut off, it pushes the oil out so next start up, it's dry. Again my thought is the head and cylinder contract at a different rate then the push rod materiel does. I know there's alot of guys who complain about noise they have now, that they didn't have before they did that simple motor work. Most keep changing parts until they give up and sell the bike. There's gotta be a reason for everything.,,,

[motorhogman]

Lifters will drive you nutz. 3 years ago I had my cam shoe's checked. My bike was all stock with 65k on the motor, never apart. I never had a lifter bleed down or make any strange noise. After having the shoes replaced, I had the guy throw a set of 203 cams in it ,with a new set of SE lifters, and adjustable push rods . Everything was fine until a few months later. I stated it up one morning and a lifter started hammering for about 2 minutes, then quieted up. Every couple of months it did that . Didn't matter how long it sat, somethings only a week would pass, and it would do it. It sat for 2 1/2/ months when I had my knee replaced, and when I started it it didn't make a sound . As far as being loud when running, My thought on that is, I never weighed the stock push rods and compared them to the new adjustable's. I know steel and other metals expand at different rates when they get heated up. And my thought is maybe the push rods don't expand as much as the cylinders and heads do, and that actually makes the rods a bit looser then they need to be. And if a lifter had head spring pressure on it when the motor is shut off, it pushes the oil out so next start up, it's dry. Again my thought is the head and cylinder contract at a different rate then the push rod materiel does. I know there's alot of guys who complain about noise they have now, that they didn't have before they did that simple motor work. Most keep changing parts until they give up and sell the bike. There's gotta be a reason for everything.,,,

I agree... There is always a reason and a solution to every problem.. LoL  some people sell the problem and it becomes somebody elses problem to find the solution..

The lifters I took out had a lot of miles on them.  Changed them as a precaution.  They never bled down in all the years they were in and all the miles..

As you can see I took apart the Johnson HyLifts and found nothing but clean oil in them.. maybe one of them is out of tolerance.. I have no clue..

And if a lifter had head spring pressure on it when the motor is shut off, it pushes the oil out so next start up, it's dry

I tried to find one that bled down and they all had some tension on them.. Couldn't push any of them down at all.  Started up with push rod tubes up,  produced two quick bangs, from the rear cylinder i think..  Happens to quick to pin point..
Hopefully these S&S lifters will be the last set I buy.. I'm getting old and really don't like taking things apart that I just had apart..

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Thermodyne]

It may not be a bad tappet.  All tappets leak down with valve spring tension on them, the issue is how fast do they reset.  Should happen while the motor is cranking.

It could be an issue of the tappet just being lazy to reset.  You can get an idea of how that is going just using a pump oil can.  If one is hard to refill, it's prolly the one.  All the same, then perhaps not a tappet.  Or it could be an oil supply issue.  Either a lag in the oil arriving, or the need to displace some air before letting the oil through.  It may not be a single tappet, it may be any tappet that's stuck holding a valve open for the week.  Or jest either of the tappets holding a valve open on a particular jug.  It could be related to somethin like a leaking piston jet or it could be wear.

Take the tappets to your indy and let him test them.  Most decent shops test new tappets before installing them, such is the quality these days.  And if you find a bad one, you have it whooped.  If not, then measure the tappet bores.  If they pass muster, then its time to inspect the cam plate and pump.  Past that, you might rig something up to test the jets, you'd be looking for one that was stuck open.     

[motorhogman]

It may not be a bad tappet.  All tappets leak down with valve spring tension on them, the issue is how fast do they reset.  Should happen while the motor is cranking.

It could be an issue of the tappet just being lazy to reset.  You can get an idea of how that is going just using a pump oil can.  If one is hard to refill, it's prolly the one.  All the same, then perhaps not a tappet.  Or it could be an oil supply issue.  Either a lag in the oil arriving, or the need to displace some air before letting the oil through.  It may not be a single tappet, it may be any tappet that's stuck holding a valve open for the week.  Or jest either of the tappets holding a valve open on a particular jug.  It could be related to somethin like a leaking piston jet or it could be wear.

Take the tappets to your indy and let him test them.  Most decent shops test new tappets before installing them, such is the quality these days.  And if you find a bad one, you have it whooped.  If not, then measure the tappet bores.  If they pass muster, then its time to inspect the cam plate and pump.  Past that, you might rig something up to test the jets, you'd be looking for one that was stuck open.   

Thanks for the suggestions..

They were all full of oil.. Lots of oil up in the heads as well.. I have no Indy.. Live in the boonies..When I installed them they all filled without issue,

I'll have an answer after I get these S&S lifters installed and she sits for 6 or 7 days.. I'm 99.9 % sure the noise was a lifter bled way down..

I might add that it had to sit for close to a week to get the noise.. 3 or 4 days no banging..

This bike doesn't crank on a cold start unless I forget to pull the fuel enrichner out. Fires up like BAM ! as soon as you hit the button. Always been that way.

Going to get started on putting the S&S lifters in this afternoon....Might finish tomorrow.. I do nothing in a hurry any more..

Thanks again

[MikeL]

I have the same problem on occasion. WFO lifters Andrews 48 cams. When I get the tapping and a little clanking I turn up the radio for a while. When I turn down the radio the noise is gone............

                                                                                                                                                                  MIKE

[SlowRacer]

When you removed the pushrod tubes, i guess you snapped them back without new o rings. Have seen several posts about oil leaking without new o rings and assume no problems since new lifters only 2500 miles ago.
I wanted to check my adjustable pushrods as I have some lifter noise and to make sure the the nut is still tight without removing the rods, since my S&S lifters and stage 2 cam about 4,000 miles ago. Trying to decide on doing it without new rings.


2017 street glide

[Hossamania]

Try it without new o-rings, you probably won't have any problems, if you do you change them.
Or don't check the rods, and just wonder if there is a problem.
Peace of mind is worth a few potential o-ring changes.

[motorhogman]

When you removed the pushrod tubes, i guess you snapped them back without new o rings. Have seen several posts about oil leaking without new o rings and assume no problems since new lifters only 2500 miles ago.
I wanted to check my adjustable pushrods as I have some lifter noise and to make sure the the nut is still tight without removing the rods, since my S&S lifters and stage 2 cam about 4,000 miles ago. Trying to decide on doing it without new rings.


2017 street glide

I reused all the gaskets and o rings.  Not because I wanted to but.. I called the local dealer on Monday and they didn't have a complete set of push rod o rings, no lifter cover gaskets.. No o rings for the rocker supports... Had to order them he says... I ask when will they be in...."not sure, maybe by the end of the week or some time next week "  "parts have been slow coming in"  Thanks........

The reason I wanted to change them they are all James o rings and gaskets with the exception of the rocker cover gaskets. I had to replace the James rocker cover gaskets right after installing them,, Couldn't get them to seal.. Never had an issue with OEM gaskets. Don't ask why I used James gaskets..    Not gonna happen again..

Buttoned it up on Wednesday afternoon ran it on the lift to check for leaks.. All good... Took her out for about a 70 mi ride Friday and no leaks.. Now I'm going to let her sit until Thursday and see what a cold start up sounds like..

[motorhogman]

Try it without new o-rings, you probably won't have any problems, if you do you change them.
Or don't check the rods, and just wonder if there is a problem.
Peace of mind is worth a few potential o-ring changes.

[motorhogman]

I have the same problem on occasion. WFO lifters Andrews 48 cams. When I get the tapping and a little clanking I turn up the radio for a while. When I turn down the radio the noise is gone............

                                                                                                                                                                  MIKE

Just me....I can't stand it when things aren't working right..

[motorhogman]

Update:

Bike sat since last Friday. Plenty long enough for the problem to present itself.  Just fired her up.    Sounds good.. NO hammer on a cast iron pan noises.. Going for a ride.. Our SC weather has returned to normal.. Sunshine and 70's 

Maybe I'll sell my Johnson HyLifts on ebay or craigs list... LOL   Just kidding I would never do that.. They are in a box with the other two sets previously changed.. Why do I save these things  I dunno...

Thanks to all for your input on this.

[Don D]

"Take the tappets to your indy and let him test them.  Most decent shops test new tappets before installing them, such is the quality these days. "

That should be interesting. What apparatus are they using for that test?
I sold my 1960s vintage Kent Moore tool years ago.

Just buy quality parts and that's the best we can do. Very high lift, spring pressures, will exaggerate the problem, not saying this is the case here just generally speaking.

[Coyote]

http://www.motorcycleworks.com/Jims-Tappet-Pump-and-Tester_p_94172.html

[Don D]

I had forgot about those, thanks