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Woods TW 999-6 / Tman 590ps2

Started by mickblues, October 13, 2020, 03:37:25 PM

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838

Quote from: rigidthumper on November 10, 2020, 09:26:36 AM
I have a friend who wants to use his 999-6 cams in a 124 build (they were seriously underwhelming in his 103/10.5/MVA setup  :sick: , so it's on to version 2).
What could go wrong ?

999-6 needs more compression. Is he going to use it in a 124"???

C-Cat

Those cams probably should be 10.8-11 to 1 compression and I would think a lot of can for a 103. Never ran them, did have the 777's and they pulled to 5700 on a 107 made 110/114 with a budget 1.90 valve head stock TB. It was between the 999's and TMan 590 PS2's  on my current 110 build. Went with 590 PS2's and moderate compression 195/195 ccp and I'm very happy. I do think if I went with the 999's and a little more compression I wouldn't look back either way.. Along with the same HPI 55/58 TB and great flowing reworked stock heads 1.94/161 I'm now running
124ci. 07 Streetbob 161/145
110ci. '11 Roadglide  129/127

rigidthumper

Quote from: 838 on November 10, 2020, 09:51:20 AM
Quote from: rigidthumper on November 10, 2020, 09:26:36 AM
I have a friend who wants to use his 999-6 cams in a 124 build (they were seriously underwhelming in his 103/10.5/MVA setup  :sick: , so it's on to version 2).
What could go wrong ?

999-6 needs more compression. Is he going to use it in a 124"???
Yes- 124 flat tops @ 11:1 with the 999 cams
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

838

Quote from: rigidthumper on November 10, 2020, 10:06:02 AM
Quote from: 838 on November 10, 2020, 09:51:20 AM
Quote from: rigidthumper on November 10, 2020, 09:26:36 AM
I have a friend who wants to use his 999-6 cams in a 124 build (they were seriously underwhelming in his 103/10.5/MVA setup  :sick: , so it's on to version 2).
What could go wrong ?

999-6 needs more compression. Is he going to use it in a 124"???
Yes- 124 flat tops @ 11:1 with the 999 cams

I'll be doing something Very similar next year... with the 9B though.

Don D


rigidthumper

I'm trying to talk him into the CR630I ( or another cam that will produce 140+/squared)
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

838


Don D

The wider lsa will work better with my heads

Bafflingbs

Quote from: C-Cat on November 08, 2020, 11:47:00 PM
You've gone this far, get the full potential from your build. Many 110's are doing 125+HP and usually pull 5700-6000 rpm with less cam than the Woods 999's. My opinion is you would gain quite a bit more than 3-4 with 55mm. TB/ 5 3 Injectors

I took part of your advice, since my throttle body is ported. I'm having 5.3gps injectors installed. I'm guessing the flattening at the end of my rpm range, has more to do with the 4.3 stock injectors running out of steam. It's coming together nice.
2015 FLHXS: 117hp/130tq FM 110", Darkhorse Man-O-War crank
Retired Motor Officer

kd

A point to consider is your tune.  It will be set for the smaller injectors and need to be3 adjusted to prevent over fueling and possibly throttle response / progressivity.
KD

Ohio HD

Quote from: Bafflingbs on November 16, 2020, 01:02:37 PM
Quote from: C-Cat on November 08, 2020, 11:47:00 PM
You've gone this far, get the full potential from your build. Many 110's are doing 125+HP and usually pull 5700-6000 rpm with less cam than the Woods 999's. My opinion is you would gain quite a bit more than 3-4 with 55mm. TB/ 5 3 Injectors

I took part of your advice, since my throttle body is ported. I'm having 5.3gps injectors installed. I'm guessing the flattening at the end of my rpm range, has more to do with the 4.3 stock injectors running out of steam. It's coming together nice.

Generally speaking when the injectors are at 100% duty cycle, the motor sputters and breaks up. You can make about 100 to 105 hp reliably with 4.3 injectors.

Flatting is probably the heads, compression, and cams. They won't give any more.

Bafflingbs

Quote from: kd on November 16, 2020, 01:08:47 PM
A point to consider is your tune.  It will be set for the smaller injectors and need to be3 adjusted to prevent over fueling and possibly throttle response / progressivity.

Ok, I'll make sure he makes the changes, however, won't my Thundermax auto tune for the difference?
2015 FLHXS: 117hp/130tq FM 110", Darkhorse Man-O-War crank
Retired Motor Officer

Bafflingbs

November 16, 2020, 01:50:22 PM #37 Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 01:58:43 PM by Bafflingbs
Quote from: Ohio HD on November 16, 2020, 01:33:45 PM
Quote from: Bafflingbs on November 16, 2020, 01:02:37 PM
Quote from: C-Cat on November 08, 2020, 11:47:00 PM
You've gone this far, get the full potential from your build. Many 110's are doing 125+HP and usually pull 5700-6000 rpm with less cam than the Woods 999's. My opinion is you would gain quite a bit more than 3-4 with 55mm. TB/ 5 3 Injectors

I took part of your advice, since my throttle body is ported. I'm having 5.3gps injectors installed. I'm guessing the flattening at the end of my rpm range, has more to do with the 4.3 stock injectors running out of steam. It's coming together nice.

Generally speaking when the injectors are at 100% duty cycle, the motor sputters and breaks up. You can make about 100 to 105 hp reliably with 4.3 injectors.

Flatting is probably the heads, compression, and cams. They won't give any more.

I'm confused, I already have 117HP. It just plato's passed 5250. In any case, I'm not changing anything else. I'm really happy with what I have. If anything, it should respond a little better. (Not that response is an issue)
2015 FLHXS: 117hp/130tq FM 110", Darkhorse Man-O-War crank
Retired Motor Officer

Ohio HD

Quote from: Bafflingbs on November 16, 2020, 01:50:22 PM
Quote from: Ohio HD on November 16, 2020, 01:33:45 PM
Quote from: Bafflingbs on November 16, 2020, 01:02:37 PM
Quote from: C-Cat on November 08, 2020, 11:47:00 PM
You've gone this far, get the full potential from your build. Many 110's are doing 125+HP and usually pull 5700-6000 rpm with less cam than the Woods 999's. My opinion is you would gain quite a bit more than 3-4 with 55mm. TB/ 5 3 Injectors

I took part of your advice, since my throttle body is ported. I'm having 5.3gps injectors installed. I'm guessing the flattening at the end of my rpm range, has more to do with the 4.3 stock injectors running out of steam. It's coming together nice.

Generally speaking when the injectors are at 100% duty cycle, the motor sputters and breaks up. You can make about 100 to 105 hp reliably with 4.3 injectors.

Flatting is probably the heads, compression, and cams. They won't give any more.

I'm confused, I already have 117HP. It just plato's passed 5250

Reliably, not meaning maximum.

100% duty cycle is when injectors stop working, stop supplying fuel.

Bafflingbs

2015 FLHXS: 117hp/130tq FM 110", Darkhorse Man-O-War crank
Retired Motor Officer

Bafflingbs

I'd love to see what my dyno shows now! It definitely has a huge bump in power. I'm not sure why, but it does. Feuling 5.3 injectors? Zipper's blueprinted cam plate? Zipper's dual piston cam chain tensioner? Feuling oil pump? Darkhorse crank? Timken conversion? The melted spark plug wire? Oversized roll pins to keep the lifters tracking properly? The fact that my exhaust gaskets were obstructing the exhaust pipe by as much as 1/8" all around? Or maybe, the dyno tune was set at 14.0/1 afr. and is now running richer and cooler, thanks to one of the best T-Max tuners there is? At any case, the bike burns through first too fast to avoid the dreaded rev limiter, without popping the clutch. The tire burn's out with just a twist of the wick! Second gear gets squiggly as well, and again unintentionally hit the rev limiter. Third is manageable but pulls so friggen hard! Thing is, it has real power, in any gear. If you've never heard of Lucky Cycles, in Maryland, you don't know what you're missing. He's partnered with Zippers, for almost 2 decades, and is actually referred to for T-Max tuning, buy Zipper's. He also has a great relationship with Darkhorse. I'm super stoked. He said I could very safely, set my redline to 6,500rpm's! I know it was still looking for more, so I'm in! I was literally shaking, from the rush, after I got back to the house.
2015 FLHXS: 117hp/130tq FM 110", Darkhorse Man-O-War crank
Retired Motor Officer

kd

Did you get a graph we can look at for comparison?  BTW, You'll get used to the power.  Your hooked now  :fish: and I see a 124 for you in my crystal ball.  :hyst:
KD

Bafflingbs

2015 FLHXS: 117hp/130tq FM 110", Darkhorse Man-O-War crank
Retired Motor Officer

C-Cat

Sounds like you got her ripping, Congratulations. Did you redyno  since the Fuel Motto Dyno? What do you mean by no more engine?
124ci. 07 Streetbob 161/145
110ci. '11 Roadglide  129/127

Bafflingbs

No more engine mods. I'm really, really happy, but, have broken the bank. The tune I have now, has given me more seat of the pants acceleration. I've got less heat, no detonation and more confidence that I won't have a catastrophic failure. This build, not including exhaust or tuner, has cost me in the neighborhood of $13k! That $8k more than I planned to spend. As far as another dyno test, maybe later. I can almost say for certain, though, I've definitely gained power. My wheel never broke loose by simply gunning the throttle before. It burns all the way through 1st now. Whatever he did, made a huge difference. Not to mention, the drivetrain noise is gone.
2015 FLHXS: 117hp/130tq FM 110", Darkhorse Man-O-War crank
Retired Motor Officer

kd

I get it that you blew the budget but you don't want to risk it by saying "it goes like a scalded cat now so iut must be OK".  At least get an AFR check done.  Can you do a few logs with your tuner and ask someone (Jamie?) to confirm it's safe to run as is.  It shouldn't cost too much for that.  The 13 large you already spent can be lost without you realizing it is in trouble.  It is easy to score pistons and barrels with a fat or lean tune for example. Just sayin. Others may chime in about this too.
KD

Bafflingbs

I got ya now. The guy who originally installed my Thundermax, is highly recommended by Zipper's themselves. That's who hooked it up the computer, and changed the AFR's set by Jamie. He went through my tune, and saw irregularities. Such as  14.0/1 AFR' s at wot. I was also getting detonation under load. I'm not anymore. It seems to be more responsive, and, it runs cooler. It ran very hot before. I'm going to ride it for 1,000mi., and he'll go back in and make adjustments again. The guy really is a genius with the T-Max. He's been tuning them for about 15 years, that I know of.
2015 FLHXS: 117hp/130tq FM 110", Darkhorse Man-O-War crank
Retired Motor Officer

mickblues

Quote from: C-Cat on November 10, 2020, 10:01:34 AM
Those cams probably should be 10.8-11 to 1 compression and I would think a lot of can for a 103. Never ran them, did have the 777's and they pulled to 5700 on a 107 made 110/114 with a budget 1.90 valve head stock TB. It was between the 999's and TMan 590 PS2's  on my current 110 build. Went with 590 PS2's and moderate compression 195/195 ccp and I'm very happy. I do think if I went with the 999's and a little more compression I wouldn't look back either way.. Along with the same HPI 55/58 TB and great flowing reworked stock heads 1.94/161 I'm now running
Thinking exactly between those two for my bike Tman or 999. What's your compression? Mine is 10.7 I spoke with Bob at Fuel Moto and said the 999-6 would be good for my build.

C-Cat

November 21, 2020, 12:57:28 AM #48 Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 01:03:31 AM by C-Cat
I used the S&S 110 Kit and was targeting 10.75:1 The pistons were below zero deck. We didn't measure how far. My CCP is 195 each cylinder, was looking to be in the 205 neighborhood. I'd estimate 10.5:1. I almost went with the 999's, probably would have if I went with 110 or SS castings. My heads are stock castings
83cc chamber 1.94/1 61 with 1.73 port 55mm. HPI TB. Also running a Boarzilla.
  I'd go with the Tman 590 PS2's at your compression.
124ci. 07 Streetbob 161/145
110ci. '11 Roadglide  129/127

mickblues

How does the bike feel / perform with those Tman 590 ps2?