Author Topic: Winter build  (Read 3540 times)

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Offline Markpisani

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Winter build
« on: October 21, 2020, 04:57:24 AM »
Hey all,

Got my winter build.....actually tear down started. Was a stock TC88. Iím doing this on a budget. I know most guys donít understand that but Iím cheap so want to decide what I really need and for the most part going with used (newer) parts. My bike has 80k kms on it and from what I can tell not much was done to it. Still ran good and everything looks ok.....normal wear.

So far a I have a newer set of 95Ē jugs and pistons. Have a aftermarket air cleaner....big sucker I think and will be doing a 2 into 1 pipe.

Need to decide on cams and anything else to refresh or upgrade. Iíd like to find some new lifters if someone has some in newer condition.

A guy I know has some almost brand new 103Ē heads from a 2015 street glide I can get for a very decent price. Not sure what Iíd gain from this.

I also have two sets of pistons, one are the stock HD flat tops and one is the  SE 10.25:1. Not sure but Iím thinking the flat tops are the way to go.

Pretty new to this stuff and doing everything myself. Not worried about my mechanical ability just my knowledge on what goes well together in terms of a build.

Appreciate any thoughts or advice.

Thanks.

Offline PoorUB

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2020, 05:03:10 AM »
Pistons and cam choice will depend on type of build you want.
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Offline rigidthumper

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2020, 05:16:21 AM »
Year?
Model?
What RPM do you normally shift?
How often do you hit the rev-limiter.
Combined weight of you/passenger/gear?
Describe a typical ride?

Welcome from Kansas City, USA
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

Offline Markpisani

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2020, 05:28:38 AM »
Sorry!

2004 FXDI.
 
Iím 200 lbs. Mostly ride solo but once in awhile the old lady jumps on but only for very short rides in and around town.

Hit the rev limiter quite often when I got the bike. Starting to learn when to shift better but I like to ride it hard. I like the torque, not so much for cruising the hwy at steady speed for long intervals. No touring really. Like to just get on and cruise around the city and some country roads for couple hours. Also use it as a commuter on the nicer summer days.

Offline Markpisani

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2020, 05:31:59 AM »
One more thing. I want a reliable build. Wasnít totally unhappy with the stock performance but since Iím in there figured a few Ďeasyí upgrades made sense and who doesnít like a bit more power!?  I really donít want to build something that going to be finicky or wear parts though. Iíd rather ride than wrench.

Good (and bad) thing here is winter is friggen long!! I live in Alberta. This gives me a bit of a hobby for the next few months.

Offline rigidthumper

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2020, 06:02:03 AM »
The late model heads have better exhaust ports, and thin stem valves good for more lift, than your stock heads, so as a bolt on, some improvement, worth it if cheap enough.
Injected bikes need a tuning device and calibrating after modifications.
What is your tuning plan?

95" flat tops with stock gaskets and late heads yield 9:1 compression, a tad low for performance, great for reliability. S&S 509/551 will be snappy

95" 10.25 pistons with late heads/stock gaskets yield 9.9:1, better for performance, and increases the cam choices. TW21, JM 20, HQ34, SE204, Crane 300, TW48, CR570/570-2.
Clearance for any cam/piston combo must be checked/set.
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2020, 07:34:10 AM »
I would recommend new lifters over used.
Riding is life.
Everything else is waiting.

Offline safetyfifth

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2020, 07:37:04 AM »

95" 10.25 pistons with late heads/stock gaskets yield 9.9:1, better for performance, and increases the cam choices. TW21, JM 20, HQ34, SE204, Crane 300, TW48, CR570/570-2.

9.9:1 dont think that would be too much for the tw21 and it's fairly early intake close?

Mark, what will you be doing for cam chain tensioners? Going hydraulic or sticking with the spring loaded stock units?
Also if you bounce off the rev limiter as you say, I would highly suggest checking crank run out before you proceed with the build.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 07:43:50 AM by safetyfifth »

Offline ThumperDeuce

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2020, 07:55:43 AM »
Cheap and reliable are not two words I would use in the same sentence.
Idiots are fun, no wonder every village wants one.

Offline harpwrench

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2020, 08:52:46 AM »
Hey all,

...Iím doing this on a budget....

Pretty new to this stuff and doing everything myself. Not worried about my mechanical ability just my knowledge on what goes well together in terms of a build.

Appreciate any thoughts or advice.

Thanks.

I'm guessing the "I" means it's fuel injected? If so then you'll need to budget give or take a grand or so that you might not have expected, to recalibrate the fuel/timing to match the new parts. I'd suggest reading older posts in the AFR and Tuning Zone to prime you on what you're up against.

Offline FXDBI

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2020, 09:46:23 AM »
Buy the street glide heads, use the 10.25/1 pistons with stock head gasket and find some S&S 570ES cams. Will put you right at 195 ccp.  http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/TwinCamComp.htm   Bob

Offline 838

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2020, 12:01:12 PM »
I really liked my 95Ē with the Andrews 48N conversion cams. SE cast flat tops, heads milled to 79cc, .030Ē head gasket. Cheap, better reliability then stock and the 4Ē stroke and the 48N play nice together!!! Youíll need the street glide heads for the added lift of the 48N.

Offline rigidthumper

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2020, 04:55:10 PM »

95" 10.25 pistons with late heads/stock gaskets yield 9.9:1, better for performance, and increases the cam choices. TW21, JM 20, HQ34, SE204, Crane 300, TW48, CR570/570-2.

9.9:1 dont think that would be too much for the tw21 and it's fairly early intake close?

Mark, what will you be doing for cam chain tensioners? Going hydraulic or sticking with the spring loaded stock units?
Also if you bounce off the rev limiter as you say, I would highly suggest checking crank run out before you proceed with the build.
That combo puts him at 9.35:1 corrected, ~196 CCP, and very snappy when tuned properly.   
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2020, 05:14:55 PM »
Would that compression be too low for an SE211? Will it work without modifying that head? With the way the op describes his riding style, I think a mid and top end cam fits the bill better than one that runs out of steam before redline. Something like a 57, the 570-2, maybe 555, rather than a 21 or 48?
Riding is life.
Everything else is waiting.

Offline Jaystn62

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2020, 05:51:47 PM »
I agree with Hoss on not trying to go cheap. My build cost me about a third more than I budgeted for but I'm more confident in the build now. Plus if you ride in upper rpm range you'll be paying more in the end for your "budget" build. I've learned a lot from these gearheads. Just having the ability to do a build doesn't mean you have all the knowledge to make it work.

Offline Markpisani

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2020, 06:30:08 PM »
I agree. My knowledge is not there right now. You always gotta start somewhere though so Iíll learn. Itís part of the fun isnít it. I think forums like this will help me get though it and if I make a couple mistakes oh well. Figure if I check, double check and ask Iíll mitigate any real costly errors.

Understand Iíll have to tune. No plan yet. Thatís something Iíll have to leave to the experts I guess.

When I say cheap I donít mean Ďcheapí I just mean Iím not going to drop a ton of $$$ for the best of everything. I do find that a lot of guys really go to the nth degree on everything. Itís great if thatís what you want and what you can afford but Iím ok with the 80% I can probably get with the 20%
Cost. Iím not interested in spending a ton of cash to chase an extra couple horse. I just want my bike to run and maybe have a bit more kick. 😀

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2020, 06:43:47 PM »
Peruse the Dyno section for builds similar to what you're doing, you'll see some combinations that will appeal to you.
Also, consider having your heads cleaned up, not a full-on max horsepower set-up, but just a little porting and smoothing. Check with some of the vendors here, or ask questions and you'll get some direction on what to shoot for. It doesn't have to cost a lot of money, but you'll get a big payback on money spent.
Remember the old adage, horsepower is in the heads.
Riding is life.
Everything else is waiting.

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2020, 06:49:21 PM »
Buy the street glide heads, use the 10.25/1 pistons with stock head gasket and find some S&S 570ES cams. Will put you right at 195 ccp.  http://www.bigboyzheadporting.com/TwinCamComp.htm   Bob

This sounds like a good combo, keeps the budget reasonable.
Riding is life.
Everything else is waiting.

Offline Markpisani

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2020, 07:00:05 PM »
Seems reasonable to me too. Iíll look into those cams.

These heads are brand new btw. Taken off the bike before it left Harley.

Offline FXDBI

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2020, 08:00:12 PM »
Seems reasonable to me too. Iíll look into those cams.

These heads are brand new btw. Taken off the bike before it left Harley.

Mark this is a  cost efficient combo. Your heads will need a fresh up so the take off would be a good deal. They will also handle more lift than yours. You need to disassemble the cam chest and do a crankshaft run out before you get right into it.  Glad to see you here checking things out like I suggested .Lots of good    information and advice here.  Bob

Offline Markpisani

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2020, 08:24:33 PM »
Checking run out this weekend. Had to borrow a dial indicator.

Also have a line on a SE cam plate conversion kit to upgrade my cam tensioner system. Also know where I can get a gear drive cam system but I doubt my run out is going to be tight enough to support that. We will see.

Will also be putting in quickie push rods.

Really want to find some good used lifters. Mine worked fine (stock) but do have 80k on them. Used might not be great but could be an improvement......

Offline kd

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2020, 08:45:11 PM »
Lifters are not something to buy used. 
KD

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2020, 08:56:14 PM »
That was my thought as well.
Lifters seem to have the biggest fail rate of any other piece in these motors.
Riding is life.
Everything else is waiting.

Offline rigidthumper

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2020, 04:54:32 AM »
Would that compression be too low for an SE211? Will it work without modifying that head? With the way the op describes his riding style, I think a mid and top end cam fits the bill better than one that runs out of steam before redline. Something like a 57, the 570-2, maybe 555, rather than a 21 or 48?
95/211/SE heads @ 78 CC was the original "Hippo" build.
A 211 here would be 8.8 corrected, 182 CCP. (IME, sluggish, but good for top end- I prefer quick to fast)
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

Offline Hossamania

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Re: Winter build
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2020, 06:52:18 AM »
Thanks for that info on the 211. A friend has one in his 95", and yes, even with the heads set up, it is not a low end cam, but it sure comes on nice at mid range, pulling hard to redline.
I have Andrews 55 cams with heads set up for them, same scenario, not great low end cams, but fantastic from mid range up, which is where I like to ride with this bike. This motor has been banged off the limiter thousands and thousands of times, that is no exaggeration.
Not trying to hijack this thread, just exploring cam options for the op, as he seems to ride in a spirited manner on a lighter bike more often than chugging along. I think a mid and upper horsepower cam would work better than a torque cam that runs out of power before redline.
A friend has torquester 555s in his StreetGlide, and they really work well from low end to the limiter, they get there quick.
Riding is life.
Everything else is waiting.