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RDRS and big engines

Started by Ozbob, November 05, 2020, 07:48:02 PM

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Ozbob

G'day all
Have 2 friends with 2020 bikes, both complaining of the same issue.

Both SG's one is a CVO 117 and the other a Special with 131 engine fitted on delivery.
Both riders complaining that under power the bikes feel restricted or soft,  both riders and one dealer are blaming the RDRS.

The owner of the CVO has somehow disconnected the whole RDRS setup and felt an instant improvemnt, but the way it was done made the bike throw engine codes(unkown what codes at this point)
The 131 owner is going through his dealer and although they told him it had been "turned off" his bike also threw codes and still felt underpowered for what it is.

I'm not an M8 owner(yet), just trying to help some brothers out.
I have read Fuel Motos article about tuning with RDRS and there are some good points in that.
Anyone State side seeing or hearing about this, thoughts or recommendations.

Manuel

Hopefully it's not oil sumping my 2020 had a cut oring on the return port of oil pump and 2 quarts of oil was staying in the crank case and I would loose almost half my power.

Don D

It is possible to toggle the RDRS off in the PV tuning software. Once the tune is done it is turned back on and the bike will feel fine. Our local tuner just accomplished this on 2 bikes. He did get a new patch, I believe, to accomplish this task as the older software didn't have this feature.

Jamie Long

Quote from: Ozbob on November 05, 2020, 07:48:02 PM
G'day all
Have 2 friends with 2020 bikes, both complaining of the same issue.

Both SG's one is a CVO 117 and the other a Special with 131 engine fitted on delivery.
Both riders complaining that under power the bikes feel restricted or soft,  both riders and one dealer are blaming the RDRS.

The owner of the CVO has somehow disconnected the whole RDRS setup and felt an instant improvemnt, but the way it was done made the bike throw engine codes(unkown what codes at this point)
The 131 owner is going through his dealer and although they told him it had been "turned off" his bike also threw codes and still felt underpowered for what it is.

I'm not an M8 owner(yet), just trying to help some brothers out.
I have read Fuel Motos article about tuning with RDRS and there are some good points in that.
Anyone State side seeing or hearing about this, thoughts or recommendations.

It appears the tables related to RDRS were not calibrated properly in the base tune. "Turning off" RDRS means they simply flashed in a non-RDRS tune, this is not at all correct. We would however need firsthand info to make a definitive judgement based off actual data (ECM log data, dyno data, & the calibration) rather than conjecture as this just clouds everything up.

Quote from: HD Street Performance on November 06, 2020, 05:08:13 AM
It is possible to toggle the RDRS off in the PV tuning software. Once the tune is done it is turned back on and the bike will feel fine. Our local tuner just accomplished this on 2 bikes. He did get a new patch, I believe, to accomplish this task as the older software didn't have this feature.

You can't just turn off RDRS in the PV calibration, there are however separate calibrations for RDRS and non-RDRS models. RDRS bikes need to be tuned using RDRS calibrations thru out the tuning process, going back & forth between RDRS/non-RDRS calibrations or switching between tunes during the tuning process that have been configured with torque based throttle control toggle off/on have the potential to get you in trouble and cause the issues the OP is noting. I had a really good conversation with Dynojet earlier this week on this subject and we're going to help put together some tuning guidelines and more clear instructions for tuning RDRS equipped bikes.

les

What you're describing is the same "feeling" that some are having with the Indian Challenger.  They are saying that when the sort of get on it from a dead stop, it's got a holding back feeling.  They are blaming the traction control.

Jamie Long

Quote from: les on November 06, 2020, 10:20:37 AM
What you're describing is the same "feeling" that some are having with the Indian Challenger.  They are saying that when the sort of get on it from a dead stop, it's got a holding back feeling.  They are blaming the traction control.

The Bosch MG1 ECU on the Challenger indeed uses torque base throttle control and features an advanced version of dynamic traction & cornering control similar to Harley's RDRS. 

1stop

Jamie, where are those tuning guidelines you're talking about? just talked to dynojet support and didn't get anything out of them. they were hesitant to talk about it. if you're have good results with power vision and you and dynojet are working together, where is the support for the product to tune the rdrs? just wondering.

hrdtail78

What tables are available in the PV for the end customer to address tq tables and RDRS?
Semper Fi