Suspension as advice/dialing in progressive 444 on an Fxr

[motorhead_smf]

So I bought my fxr with progressive 444 rear shocks.  Never really bothered to adjust them but I did yesterday.  They seemed a little stiff and when I sit on the bike it never seemed to sag much.  PO has them set 3 out of 4 clicks stiff.  After measuring sag I found that that would be the correct location but as I said they seem stiff.  No drop I can really feel.  Not like any of my other bikes including softails.  I weight 190-200 normally, maybe 210 geared up.  Any one ever had similar experiences.  The springs say 1354 76/120 I think.  Is this the heavy duty spring or standard?  I think they use different springs depending on model to accomplish that goal.  I was gonna try it at 2 marks even though the sag is over an inch.  But does anyone have any insight or suggestions with the progressive 444's.

[rbabos]

My experience, they suck and that load sensing valving is more an advertising gimmick . Seemed to work ok with the 1.25" sag setting at first (about 2k) but got firmer or less reactive over time, like the valving wasn't working quite right. They are in a box in the basement now and the stock v rod shocks are back on the bike. 444s are a very basic shock. Their better shocks should perform better since there are adjustable valve settings in them. Some say they are great but as I see it, one would need one hell of a pos stock shock to feel any improvement. I didn't but then again the v rod rear shock run a hell of an angle which would make them behave differently then say an more upright mounted shock.
Ron

[Jim Bronson]

^^^^^^ 
I had 444 shocks on my '05 Dyna, and the ride was awful. The only thing good I can say is that the bike handled a little bit better in the twisties, but not good enough to offset the bone-jarring ride. After a week, I went back to stock. I agree with Ron that the "road sensing valving" was probably designed by the marketing department, not the engineering department. 

[motorhead_smf]

^^^^^^ 
I had 444 shocks on my '05 Dyna, and the ride was awful. The only thing good I can say is that the bike handled a little bit better in the twisties, but not good enough to offset the bone-jarring ride. After a week, I went back to stock. I agree with Ron that the "road sensing valving" was probably designed by the marketing department, not the engineering department. 

I had a feeling that was the case.  I also noticed that they don't list the 444's as a fxr shock which could mean they were "creatively". Installed.   I was planning on buying some high dollar shocks like legends or ohlins over the winter.  But seeing that these were +600$ shocks I figured they would be decent.  They hold the road good but they are pretty damn stiff.  Like I said no noticeable drop when I plop my ass on the bike.  Most the sag is from the bike itself.  They definitely aren't bottoming on bumps.  My rigid with seat shocks is almost as bad with a stress on almost.

[rbabos]

^^^^^^ 
I had 444 shocks on my '05 Dyna, and the ride was awful. The only thing good I can say is that the bike handled a little bit better in the twisties, but not good enough to offset the bone-jarring ride. After a week, I went back to stock. I agree with Ron that the "road sensing valving" was probably designed by the marketing department, not the engineering department. 

I had a feeling that was the case.  I also noticed that they don't list the 444's as a fxr shock which could mean they were "creatively". Installed.   I was planning on buying some high dollar shocks like legends or ohlins over the winter.  But seeing that these were +600$ shocks I figured they would be decent.  They hold the road good but they are pretty damn stiff.  Like I said no noticeable drop when I plop my ass on the bike.  Most the sag is from the bike itself.  They definitely aren't bottoming on bumps.  My rigid with seat shocks is almost as bad with a stress on almost.

Keep in mind that because 2 of us found the same, the other 98 will say they are the best thing since sliced bread. 
Ron

[04 SE Deuce]

Progressive standard spring rate is 75-120lb/in which is what you have. Heavy Duty is 90-130lb/in.  The bulk of Progressive products are ordinary at best.

If you have a proper amount of laden SAG changing the spring preload/ride height really is not going to change ride quality much except for when the suspension is shallow in travel or coming back into travel from full extended...unless it is bottoming. Hitting a bump that compresses the suspension from ride height is going to see the same spring rate unless the rubber shaft bumper is contacted due to lack of available travel.

I would set the laden SAG around 1"-1.25".   No need to set it more than 1.25".  Also setting it less than 3/4" is WRONG,  if you drag parts and want to set the ride height at max. shoot for 7/8".  -Rick

[motorhead_smf]

Progressive standard spring rate is 75-120lb/in which is what you have. Heavy Duty is 90-130lb/in.  The bulk of Progressive products are ordinary at best.

If you have a proper amount of laden SAG changing the spring preload/ride height really is not going to change ride quality much except for when the suspension is shallow in travel or coming back into travel from full extended...unless it is bottoming. Hitting a bump that compresses the suspension from ride height is going to see the same spring rate unless the rubber shaft bumper is contacted due to lack of available travel.

I would set the laden SAG around 1"-1.25".   No need to set it more than 1.25".  Also setting it less than 3/4" is WRONG,  if you drag parts and want to set the ride height at max. shot for 7/8".  -Rick

Is that true for all shock models for different models.?  I thought maybe a standard spring for a bagger might be a heavy duty for a light cruiser or sportster.  I know for sure the same springs are used on different shocks and the internals are different.
I appreciate the info though.
That's where my loaded sag is About 1-1/4.

Another factor here is my front may be somewhat softer than it needs to be.  It has gold valve emulators.  But I don't know where they're adjusted to. It's a decent ride but could be tweaked.

[04 SE Deuce]

Springs rates depend on the axle to shaft ratio and the weight of the bike/rider.  For example a bagger is close to 1 to 1 and uses a lighter spring than a Dyna which is 1.45 to 1 even though the bagger is heavier.  FXR uses a lighter spring than a bagger,  similar ratio and lighter bike.  It's not your spring rate causing poor ride quality. -Rick

[motorhead_smf]

Springs rates depend on the axle to shaft ratio and the weight of the bike/rider.  For example a bagger is close to 1 to 1 and uses a lighter spring than a Dyna which is 1.45 to 1 even though the bagger is heavier.  FXR uses a lighter spring than a bagger,  similar ratio and lighter bike.  It's not your spring rate causing poor ride quality. -Rick

Interesting, but it makes sense.  Another point that if these shocks are for a dyna and fitted to an fxr could be an issue also.  The progressive site does not list 444's for an fxr.

[04 SE Deuce]

A 1.45-1 Dyna shock should have stronger valving with more control than a shock for a 1-1 application.  So a properly valved Dyna shock re-sprung for an FXR would be overdamped.  I see RWD sells the same shocks for Sportster and Dyna apps. and instruct  the end user to set the damping adjustment to the low or high side depending on whether the bike is a Sportster or Dyna, I guess that works but why not have a shim stack for each application so the end user is in the middle of the adjustment range.  Obviously they are trying to reduce inventory.

You could call Progressive but your spring rate is appropriate for an FXR and Progressive told me years ago that they do not adjust the valving on 444's.  One of the reasons I tell guys to buy a quality re-valveable shocks like Ohlins so that you can request a re-valve when serviced to suit you riding style/preferences.  Given your feedback is accurate the shocks should be close or dialed after 1 or 2 adjustments.  Quality shocks typically have better materials, closer tolerances and last longer when serviced at proper intervals.

Something to try:
After setting laden SAG/ride height,  put a small/mini zip-tie for a tattletale on the shock shaft to get a good idea what is going on in conjunction with rider feel.  Stop on a moderately bumpy road, set the tattletale/s then run a section of that road without hitting any large bumps that will give a false reading.  Also note how big of a bump or hit it takes to get into the bottoming bumper on the shaft.  Doesn't take long to get an approx. shaft measurement for small medium and large bumps.  Be aware that rolling in/out of a driveway/curb will give a false reading, same for raised intersections.  Remove zip-tie when done to prevent it from contacting seal over the long run.

On adjustable shocks this will help in getting the adjustment optimized.   

With the 444 it will likely only satisfy your curiosity as to what the shocks are or aren't doing as I believe Progressive doesn't offer any option to adjust the 444 valving. 

You will find whether the shocks aren't traveling enough to give the preferred ride quality or that the shocks are getting into the bumper stop too hard/often diminishing ride quality.

[motorhead_smf]

A 1.45-1 Dyna shock should have stronger valving with more control than a shock for a 1-1 application.  So a properly valved Dyna shock re-sprung for an FXR would be overdamped.  I see RWD sells the same shocks for Sportster and Dyna apps. and instruct  the end user to set the damping adjustment to the low or high side depending on whether the bike is a Sportster or Dyna, I guess that works but why not have a shim stack for each application so the end user is in the middle of the adjustment range.  Obviously they are trying to reduce inventory.

You could call Progressive but your spring rate is appropriate for an FXR and Progressive told me years ago that they do not adjust the valving on 444's.  One of the reasons I tell guys to buy a quality re-valveable shocks like Ohlins so that you can request a re-valve when serviced to suit you riding style/preferences.  Given your feedback is accurate the shocks should be close or dialed after 1 or 2 adjustments.  Quality shocks typically have better materials, closer tolerances and last longer when serviced at proper intervals.

Something to try:
After setting laden SAG/ride height,  put a small/mini zip-tie for a tattletale on the shock shaft to get a good idea what is going on in conjunction with rider feel.  Stop on a moderately bumpy road, set the tattletale/s then run a section of that road without hitting any large bumps that will give a false reading.  Also note how big of a bump or hit it takes to get into the bottoming bumper on the shaft.  Doesn't take long to get an approx. shaft measurement for small medium and large bumps.  Be aware that rolling in/out of a driveway/curb will give a false reading, same for raised intersections.  Remove zip-tie when done to prevent it from contacting seal over the long run.

On adjustable shocks this will help in getting the adjustment optimized.   

With the 444 it will likely only satisfy your curiosity as to what the shocks are or aren't doing as I believe Progressive doesn't offer any option to adjust the 444 valving. 

You will find whether the shocks aren't traveling enough to give the preferred ride quality or that the shocks are getting into the bumper stop too hard/often diminishing ride quality.

Good looking out.  My suspicion is that there isn't a ton of travel. I did take them down one marker line and have yet to test them.  I'll report back.  It is more sag then suggested but it needs a cushier ride as was.

[guido4198]

Read and heed, He's giving you the best advice yet:
Something to try:
After setting laden SAG/ride height,  put a small/mini zip-tie for a tattletale on the shock shaft to get a good idea what is going on in conjunction with rider feel.  Stop on a moderately bumpy road, set the tattletale/s then run a section of that road without hitting any large bumps that will give a false reading.  Also note how big of a bump or hit it takes to get into the bottoming bumper on the shaft.  Doesn't take long to get an approx. shaft measurement for small medium and large bumps.  Be aware that rolling in/out of a driveway/curb will give a false reading, same for raised intersections.  Remove zip-tie when done to prevent it from contacting seal over the long run.

On adjustable shocks this will help in getting the adjustment optimized.   

With the 444 it will likely only satisfy your curiosity as to what the shocks are or aren't doing as I believe Progressive doesn't offer any option to adjust the 444 valving.

You will find whether the shocks aren't traveling enough to give the preferred ride quality or that the shocks are getting into the bumper stop too hard/often diminishing ride quality.

The last time I had Progressives on my FXR, I "dialed them in" by putting them on a shelf in my garage after about a year and replaced them with Pro-Action.

[motorhead_smf]

Read and heed, He's giving you the best advice yet:
Something to try:
After setting laden SAG/ride height,  put a small/mini zip-tie for a tattletale on the shock shaft to get a good idea what is going on in conjunction with rider feel.  Stop on a moderately bumpy road, set the tattletale/s then run a section of that road without hitting any large bumps that will give a false reading.  Also note how big of a bump or hit it takes to get into the bottoming bumper on the shaft.  Doesn't take long to get an approx. shaft measurement for small medium and large bumps.  Be aware that rolling in/out of a driveway/curb will give a false reading, same for raised intersections.  Remove zip-tie when done to prevent it from contacting seal over the long run.

On adjustable shocks this will help in getting the adjustment optimized.   

With the 444 it will likely only satisfy your curiosity as to what the shocks are or aren't doing as I believe Progressive doesn't offer any option to adjust the 444 valving.

You will find whether the shocks aren't traveling enough to give the preferred ride quality or that the shocks are getting into the bumper stop too hard/often diminishing ride quality.

The last time I had Progressives on my FXR, I "dialed them in" by putting them on a shelf in my garage after about a year and replaced them with Pro-Action.

Oh I was paying attention, lol.

I'll likely go with ohlins or legends after Christmas is done and I know my budget.