IPB, standard bearing with S&S inner race vs. baker high torque bearing

[FSG]

when in doubt ............  clout   

[Ohio HD]

Here's a completely ceramic bearing with a C3 clearance, which is a tight tolerances.

I need to research this to see if there is any advantage as far as load capacity over a standard bearing.


https://www.vxb.com/6205-2RS-Full-Ceramic-Sealed-25x52x15-ZrO2-Si3N4-p/kit8539.htm

Thank you for the link, kinda proud of that one. So far It looks like the only respondent that has had an issue with the Baker bearing was Planemech. Anybody else that has had issues, or good long term luck?

Yes, those are pricey.

I sent a request for technical data of the ceramic bearing. Specifically asking them about the radial and axial loads. I can't see where being ceramic will improve that at all. Maybe the fact that it rolls with less resistance is helpful in wear, but I doubt it's any stronger. I'll post what they send me.

So this is what the bearing supplier had to say about using a ceramic bearing in a high load application. I would consider an IPB a high load application. Otherwise we wouldn't see the OEM race move on higher performance or harder run bikes.



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[Roadflyer]

Here's a completely ceramic bearing with a C3 clearance, which is a tight tolerances.

I need to research this to see if there is any advantage as far as load capacity over a standard bearing.


https://www.vxb.com/6205-2RS-Full-Ceramic-Sealed-25x52x15-ZrO2-Si3N4-p/kit8539.htm

Thank you for the link, kinda proud of that one. So far It looks like the only respondent that has had an issue with the Baker bearing was Planemech. Anybody else that has had issues, or good long term luck?

My Baker hi torque ipb was pretty crunchy after 10-20k miles as well.
I ordered a new one. after I knocked the old one out it turned nice and smooth.
I think the bearings cavitate in the grease and me pounding it out rearranged the grease.
I'd try taking the oil seal off the wet side of the bearing so it gets primary lube.

[Ohio HD]

So the S&S 56-5089 inner bearing race measures out like this.

ID on the inside (towards the transmission) is 0.9835

ID on the outside (towards the primary) is 0.9505

So I need to determine that the Grudgebox mainshaft has a taper ground on it like the OEM mainshaft. I don't have the transmission yet, so I don't know until it gets here. If it doesn't then there is no way that the OEM bearing and race can be used.

[jls 64]

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=90734.0

[Ohio HD]

I did read that a few days ago, but he's referencing the DD7 specifically. I can only assume that the Grudgebox is made on the same principal, but before I try to push that race on an expensive new transmission, I'll measure the mainshaft first for taper.

Then once the transmission is in the bike, I'll put the inner primary on with the OEM IPB still in, remove the seal first. Measure where the bearing roller edge is to the end of the transmission mainshaft, pull the inner primary and then determine that the area of the mainshaft will accommodate the OEM IPB race.

[jls 64]

 

[Admiral Akbar]

So the S&S 56-5089 inner bearing race measures out like this.

ID on the inside (towards the transmission) is 0.9835

ID on the outside (towards the primary) is 0.9505

So I need to determine that the Grudgebox mainshaft has a taper ground on it like the OEM mainshaft. I don't have the transmission yet, so I don't know until it gets here. If it doesn't then there is no way that the OEM bearing and race can be used.

Does the 08 up OEM mainshaft have a taper or a step?  While I don't have one available, seems to me that mainshaft would have a 0.2mm step and no taper.  It's nothing more than HDs way of keeping the race from walking.

[Ohio HD]

So the S&S 56-5089 inner bearing race measures out like this.

ID on the inside (towards the transmission) is 0.9835

ID on the outside (towards the primary) is 0.9505

So I need to determine that the Grudgebox mainshaft has a taper ground on it like the OEM mainshaft. I don't have the transmission yet, so I don't know until it gets here. If it doesn't then there is no way that the OEM bearing and race can be used.

Does the 08 up OEM mainshaft have a taper or a step?  While I don't have one available, seems to me that mainshaft would have a 0.2mm step and no taper.  It's nothing more than HDs way of keeping the race from walking.

I don't know Max, I will measure the shaft later today, and I have an S&S IPB race for the later six speed here too, I'll measure that as well.

[Rockout Rocker Products]

So the S&S 56-5089 inner bearing race measures out like this.

ID on the inside (towards the transmission) is 0.9835

ID on the outside (towards the primary) is 0.9505

So I need to determine that the Grudgebox mainshaft has a taper ground on it like the OEM mainshaft. I don't have the transmission yet, so I don't know until it gets here. If it doesn't then there is no way that the OEM bearing and race can be used.

Does the 08 up OEM mainshaft have a taper or a step?  While I don't have one available, seems to me that mainshaft would have a 0.2mm step and no taper.  It's nothing more than HDs way of keeping the race from walking.

So the S&S 56-5089 inner bearing race measures out like this.

ID on the inside (towards the transmission) is 0.9835

ID on the outside (towards the primary) is 0.9505

So I need to determine that the Grudgebox mainshaft has a taper ground on it like the OEM mainshaft. I don't have the transmission yet, so I don't know until it gets here. If it doesn't then there is no way that the OEM bearing and race can be used.

Does the 08 up OEM mainshaft have a taper or a step?  While I don't have one available, seems to me that mainshaft would have a 0.2mm step and no taper.  It's nothing more than HDs way of keeping the race from walking.

I don't know Max, I will measure the shaft later today, and I have an S&S IPB race for the later six speed here too, I'll measure that as well.

Mine is a definite step.

[Ohio HD]

Ok, so I measured the OEM six speed transmission mainshaft, it does not have a taper ground in. The area the IPB race resides is 0.9767" along that machined area. Behind the IPB race is where the main drive bearing runs, there is a slight machined step there, but that dimension is 0.9898". I removed the gear for a good measure and photo.

The S&S 56-5089 IPB race for the '08 and up six speed, the bore is tapered. Measures as below.

0.9745 - ID on the inner side (towards the transmission)

0.9440 - ID on the outer side (towards the primary)


So it has a very tight press fit, which is seen when installing them, or removing them.


I need to see what the Baker mainshaft looks like when it arrives.



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[jls 64]

Something new .i'm really interested.

[jmorton10]

I put a DD7 in my 124" 07 RK last Summer.

I used the race that Baker supplied & I can honestly say, it went on harder than any other one I have ever done.  I actually broke my Jims tool trying to get it on & had to make an alternate setup to finish the job.

I pressed in on with red loctite & I will be shocked if it ever walks LOL.

~John

[Ohio HD]

Baker supplied an inner primary bearing race? What was the race, OEM HD or? Have a Baker part number or reference?

[jls 64]

 OEM RACE#34091-06- 2006/2007.
Sys race 56-5089 06/07
Sys race 08 and up #560-0241

[Ohio HD]

OEM RACE#34091-06- 2006/2007.
Sys race 56-5089 06/07
Sys race 08 and up #560-0241

I'm asking John what race Baker sent him. I know the OEM numbers and S&S numbers.

[jls 64]

Ah ok sorry

[Rockout Rocker Products]

Interesting that they sent John a race & me a 1 pc. bearing for the same trans. 

[jmorton10]

Baker supplied an inner primary bearing race? What was the race, OEM HD or? Have a Baker part number or reference?

I'm not really sure, the race came with the DD7 so I assumed Baker made it & didn't really pay that much attention to it.

I still have the original Harley race sitting in my shop so I know the Baker kit came with a new one.

~John

[Ohio HD]

Baker supplied an inner primary bearing race? What was the race, OEM HD or? Have a Baker part number or reference?

I'm not really sure, the race came with the DD7 so I assumed Baker made it & didn't really pay that much attention to it.

I still have the original Harley race sitting in my shop so I know the Baker kit came with a new one.

~John

Does your instruction sheets show the race in there, and how far to press it on the shaft? What were the particulars so we can reproduce the process.

[Ohio HD]

Ok, back to the IPB race.

S&S IPB race 56-5089 for 5 speed transmissions.
transmission side ID - 0.9835"
primary side ID - 0.9515"

Baker Grudgebox main shaft OD - 0.9845" - straight, no step or taper.

It should work, the OEM HD 5 speed shaft measures almost identical from what I read on the site. I don't have a 5 speed shaft to measure.

I still plan to measure the IPB race location in the bike to the transmission left machined face (inner primary mating surface) so I can put the S&S race on the Grudgebox and center it in the bearing.

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[FSG]

a lil bump   

[lqqk_out]

I realize this is an older thread, but I thought this was the correct place for my question......
What is the advantage of using an S&S inner primary bearing race on a 2008 and later HD 6-speed transmission? It seems to me there is no advanatage. The S&S race costs more than the HD race (34091-08) and the mainshaft is stepped so the HD race shouldn't walk into the transmission. What am I missing?

[FSG]

What am I missing?

how many mainshafts have there been between the first 6 speed and now AND what year did the mainshaft become stepped?

[lqqk_out]

What am I missing?

how many mainshafts have there been between the first 6 speed and now AND what year did the mainshaft become stepped?

I thought it was 2008. Hence that was why I mentioned 6-speeds from 2008 in my post above.