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Started by thumper 823, December 23, 2020, 07:57:56 AM

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rigidthumper

Consider Loctite 680 (green) instead of red to fill the gap between bearing shell and case. It's designed to for that (will fill up to 15 thousandths- perfect for retaining slip fit bearings).
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

thumper 823

OK, thanx
BDL belts specify Red to take up the slack for the main shaft so I thought it might be a
a good choice for this too?
I actually had to heat the area up to pull the clutch off the main shaft after using the Red, and it has been
in hard use for a year!
  I will look into the green stuff.
thanx
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

rigidthumper

200 Series Loctite products are designed for fasteners, seen here.


Not to be confused with other green Loctite products, Loctite 680 was designed for filling gaps between bearing shells and their housings.
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

thumper 823

Green on the inside and red on the outside? 
LOL
Thanx for the info.
I will get er done.
Now back to narrow rings pistons and other projects of insanity.
 

D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

thumper 823

D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

Dan89flstc

January 11, 2021, 05:00:32 PM #55 Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 05:15:12 PM by Dan89flstc
Quote from: thumper 823 on January 11, 2021, 04:38:00 PM
https://www.microbluebearings.com/6209-ceramic-ball-bearing/

What do you guys think of this?

What are you trying to accomplish here?

How much power is the engine putting out?

I say find a used gearset and be done with it.

Use loctite 609 to remedy the bearing loose fit.
US Navy Veteran
A&P Mechanic

thumper 823

We already have baker OD 6 on the way.

No going back now.
This summer I am shooting for 1.35 - TQ/Hp  at a very low usable RPM
That's the goal , usable power.
We more than surpassed the 1.30 mark on two different dynos last fall.
In due process, the next weakest link raised its uugly head, the left side seals in the transmission transparently did not like the
pulls.
Upon examination, there was way too much wrong with the shafts, forks, bearings etc
to economically fix, -it came out about the same price as a new baker insert.


D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

rigidthumper

Anything that reduces parasitic drag is "better". Worth it, price wise, as far as a good value? IDK>  I do believe ceramic wheel bearings drop ET by a few thousandths.
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

turboprop

Quote from: thumper 823 on January 11, 2021, 04:38:00 PM
https://www.microbluebearings.com/6209-ceramic-ball-bearing/

What do you guys think of this?

Back in the days of the AHDRA S&S 124 Challenge Class, a racer named Mike Roberts had just about every moving part on his bike done by Micro Blue Racing. Not just wheel bearings, but every bearing in the entire bike, the primary drive chain/sprockets, final drive chain/sprockets, and all of the moving parts in the engine. Mike dominated that class for several years.

I had Micro Blue do the gear set in my red/white bike,  the wheel bearings, and a few internal engine parts. Its not for everyone.

Funny - I am surprised the crowd that fusses over compensators and lifters has not found this stuff and debated at length (without ever trying it).
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.

hbkeith

January 12, 2021, 02:18:11 AM #59 Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 02:28:46 AM by hbkeith
Quote from: turboprop on January 11, 2021, 10:30:09 PM
Quote from: thumper 823 on January 11, 2021, 04:38:00 PM
https://www.microbluebearings.com/6209-ceramic-ball-bearing/

What do you guys think of this?

Back in the days of the AHDRA S&S 124 Challenge Class, a racer named Mike Roberts had just about every moving part on his bike done by Micro Blue Racing. Not just wheel bearings, but every bearing in the entire bike, the primary drive chain/sprockets, final drive chain/sprockets, and all of the moving parts in the engine. Mike dominated that class for several years.


that wasnt cheap i bet , now all the top guys are ceramic , ive got them in my wheels

thumper 823

Quote from: turboprop on January 11, 2021, 10:30:09 PM
Quote from: thumper 823 on January 11, 2021, 04:38:00 PM
https://www.microbluebearings.com/6209-ceramic-ball-bearing/

What do you guys think of this?

Back in the days of the AHDRA S&S 124 Challenge Class, a racer named Mike Roberts had just about every moving part on his bike done by Micro Blue Racing. Not just wheel bearings, but every bearing in the entire bike, the primary drive chain/sprockets, final drive chain/sprockets, and all of the moving parts in the engine. Mike dominated that class for several years.

I had Micro Blue do the gear set in my red/white bike,  the wheel bearings, and a few internal engine parts. Its not for everyone.

Funny - I am surprised the crowd that fusses over compensators and lifters has not found this stuff and debated at length (without ever trying it).

Most people want to bolt-on gobs of Tq and HP. ( the novice approach)
It is just not that way! (despite the claims of 20 HP air cleaners and 50 more HP exhaust.)
"we" know that.
Moving the "VE" continually up the scale we have to linearly look for ounces instead of pounds for improvements.
In my case, my MC is one of my passions. I want the most out of it with reliability somewhere in the nucleus.
Skipping on bearings is just the low brow, low dollar way of doing things.
The "Walmart way" if you will.
In twenty years I will guess one will have to order plain jane bearings if they don't want the better ceramics.
The industry moves forward, some of us just like to surf? Do we like the cutting edge? Or not?
The devil is in the details -  I ride what looks like a Harley. They never made such a nice machine and too bad for them!
If we can improve the "co" incrementally, a couple of percents here, over there, etc, and with our detail to the large picture we have a better faster bike per cube than last year. ( my goal)
Sure this bearing   is spendy, but it was cheaper than a hangover with much longer happier results
Hopefully, it will complement the new Baker set up.
To each their own.
PS thnax for the heads up on micro blue-that saved me a lot of  reaseach
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

thumper 823

A box of goodies!
[attach=2,msg1374576]  [attach=1,msg1374576] a box of goodies [attach=0,msg1374576]

 
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

thumper 823

Updates  -
I received the ceramic main drive bearing a few days ago from Micro.
I will have to admit I am not too keen on the tolerances of it, so I called Craig there at sales and he assured me it was built fine.
I questioned him severely and he said in 20 years they have never had a failure.
Also, the standard is a ten-ball affair whereas this one is 9 balls.
If I give a new standard bearing a spin my fingers it will go about three seconds. (came with the transmission)
The ceramic will spin at least 5 seconds,  so i will have to guess they are a less parasitic drag.
  Add to that Craig stated this will wear no more in a forever whereas a regular bearing will progressively wear out.
I know nothing most of the time and can prove it the rest of the time..I am not a bearing expert.
I installed it today and the main drive gear.
There is a small amount of axial, and a tiny bit of lateral cockeyed play. (without the main shaft installed)
I can't compare this to another bearing as this is the only one I have ever done.
It may be in fact just fine ?
I will let all know should it go bad..until then consider it all done and good.
 
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

thumper 823

Question for the people with knowledge of Baker exp  OD6.
The online youtube video says to cut the beak off the shifter pawl.
The directions say nothing about it , but it is not a Harley part either, says baker right on it.
I called Baker yesterday about closing time and the person left there was not sure.
  Call me confused.
Any absolute insite here?
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

Billy

This is from the Baker website. I would think if the Baker pawl you have has this beak on it, it would need to be ground off.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1034/8027/files/special-inst-shifter-pawl.pdf?9650806201595179938

Lazyness is the Mother of Invention

thumper 823

Thanx!!
But there is an amazing amount of confusion going on. Here and there
I talked to a "Steve" there @ Baker late Fri and perhaps the same Steve yesterday at about 9 AM.
He did not give me a lot of confidence in his answer.
The shift pawl alone is over 200 bucks from Baker and I just don't want to start cutting on it as a guess.
  He said as long as the pawl goes into the hole all is well..plus Baker would not sell me a piece that needs modification.
That the mod is for the Harley shift pawl supposedly. (he thinks)
In the video, Bert is holding the original Harley pawl in his hand and THAT video is OLD!
The one they send in the builder kit is clearly marked "Baker" and it is just like the Harley pawl except different  ...LOL
It is more sturdy, the beak is shaped differently.
All this does leave a lot of uneasiness in the brain.
I think the only way to know for sure is plug the trans in and watch it shift with the cover off.
Thats my plan when I get back to it.

I will guess.....
if they sold this kit in a box its ready to go, it would seem stupid not to have addressed their new-made part off the line .
Just an educated grasp in my reality, I will let al know what is learned.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

Billy

Is this the ratchet pawl you have? If it is, the pointed beak engages between the pins below the pawl rotating the drum, it is supposed to keep the drum from over rotating which was a common problem for the Evo 5 speed tranny. Install just the ratchet pawl and drum in the case and check for operation before assembling the tranny. Don't grind it off.

https://bakerdrivetrain.com/collections/1984-2006/products/anti-overshift-ratchet-pawl?variant=23522346307

I installed the OD6 kit in my '95 EVO probably 15 years ago and had to buy that shift pawl separately. It has and continues to work flawlessly. Unlike my fuzzy brain.
Lazyness is the Mother of Invention

thumper 823

Thanx!
That is exactly it!
I think you have pointedly directly blatantly coherently brought us all to the roundup of truth and fact.
thenx!
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

thumper 823

It looks to me like everyone would save themselves a large heartache by replacing the inner primary bearing with a newer sealed unit and get rid of that spacer.
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

thumper 823

Whilst there............
Might just as well do the belt and both sprockets correct?
I am doing the swing arm bushings too
But this might be of interest to we hotrodders.
The OEM part must weigh ten lbs!
When this arives  this i will post the weight.


[attach=0,msg1380095]
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

Hossamania

Depending on the mileage and condition, yes, changing sprockets and belt make sense. I changed mine when the tranny was being serviced, 60,000 on the belt, 118,000 on the pulleys. They were all due, quite a few imbedded small rocks.
Nice pulley, let us know how it works out.
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

thumper 823

  [attach=0,msg1380544]   [attach=1,msg1380544]
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

motorhogman

Damn..That's a weight loss !
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

thumper 823

March 12, 2021, 07:23:49 AM #73 Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 09:20:49 AM by thumper 823
Yes!  some serious deletions here.
As I said B4 ,  the belt drive dropped off I  forget if it was 20 or 30 lbs out of the slinging mess.
It gets rid of the compensator too   (which I have never run anyway)
So all and all the little engine that could gets a more EZ job!
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

turboprop

Quote from: thumper 823 on January 26, 2021, 05:31:44 PM
It looks to me like everyone would save themselves a large heartache by replacing the inner primary bearing with a newer sealed unit and get rid of that spacer.

There have been countless discussions on this forum about this. Almost to the level of the TC lifter debates. One aspect not discussed here is lubrication. The factory style bearing is lubed by the fluid in the primary drive case and has been proven to be pretty trouble free from lubrication issues. The sealed bearings come packed in grease. The issue with this, is that these bearings are very inconsistent with the type and amount of grease they come with. I remember someone, maybe it was Max, that obtained an assortment of these bearings being sold under various brand names and opened them up to inspect the grease. As I recall, the amount of grease in these bearings varied widely, even amongst the same reseller branding.
'We' like this' - Said by the one man operation.