Axtell Piston Set-up or S&S bigger engine?

[hbkeith]

Crate motors no matter the brand are a crap shoot. A bench built motor starting with a stronger engine case than OE, will be better, if the builder is up to the task. S&S engines from those overpriced choppers can be found at good prices and make a excellent starting point.

Got a buddy that bought a 111 , had problem after problem , he has stock motor in now , crap shoot for sure

[Ohio HD]

Calgary56 had problems with his S&S 111. Anytime something is mass produced there's a larger margin for errors.

[turboprop]

I'm making one of my FXR's a little hotrod.  I'm considering doing a set of the special Axtell Sales 80" pistons where you need to machine out the combustion chamber, port the heads, and run something in the range of a Wood W9 cam. This is a gold/black bike, so I like the gold toned stainless Supertrapp on it...

For the money I will spend to do the stuff above, I'm getting the in the range of a complete engine.  I was considering going to a 96", 103" or even 120" S&S Super Stock. (depending on what I can find)

I have not personally run either the Axtell setup, or a bigger inch S&S Evo.  So I'm looking for opinions.

Have never heard of either of these S&S engines. Do you have a link to them?

96, 111, 124, whatever.  I didn't look up the exact sizes, it doesn't really matter.  I don't have any bikes with S&S engines, so I don't stay up on what they have, nor do I care.  The point/question was asking if it makes more sense to do an 80" or just buy a whole new (used) engine.  Money is not an object, but I'm not into pissing it away either.  If I can build my 80" for 2000$, or get a complete engine for about the same cost, what is the better way to go?

I personally know several guys in the FXR community that have had nightmares with their S&S evo 111 engines. Back in the day, 80" evo engines with the Axtell angle top pistons were the hot ticket. Very easy to hit 90hp without going into the stupid zone. The recipe has been proven countless times. Ron at Axtell will point you in the right direction for the cam and headwork. Your budget of $2k is going to be pushing it.

Don't fear the tapered shaft. Lots of barstool experts regurgitating stuff they heard. That tapered shaft should not be a concern unless this hot rod, baby 80 or crate ?? of yours is pushing 140.

Are you able to do the tear down and assembly yourself?

[thumper 823]

I would go with the Axtell version every time any time.
Install a high torq cam (Dm 530 works GREAT!) and I am sure others will work also.

As I have said B4 the weak link I the fingernail silver that locks it all to the pinion.
Adress that if more than then a stock cam is used.
Also, take the time to set the correct pinion/cam gear fitment.
Usually, to always if you buy a cam with a gear it is too small but allows it to be used with a lot of backlashe.
This will ruin your valve timing at some point. (bent exhaust)  BTDT

[Buglet]

    Sold quite a few of the 111's, the only problem I've being having with them is around 30k they blow the front head gasket and some would use oil but not enough for S&S's book. 

[Winston Wolf]

I'm going to do the Axtell treatment.  I tore everything down, and I'll take it to the machine shop tomorrow.  Supposedly the bike had 32,000 miles, but it has obviously been torn into before; the flywheels have the run-out written on them, and the cases were sealed with silicone. So, I guess I will replace the bearings and start fresh.  I have a set of 5 over pistons that Axtell said are really old and some of the first ones they did. The plan will be to set it close to 11:1 and run a W9 cam.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[kd]

New wheels from the factory have the runout numbers written on them too.    The silicon isn't such a great idea.  It has a determined life span in oil and changing temps.  It can be fatal if a piece gets away and into the system oil galleries.

[Ohio HD]

New wheels from the factory have the runout numbers written on them too.    The silicon isn't such a great idea.  It has a determined life span in oil and changing temps.  It can be fatal if a piece gets away and into the system oil galleries.

Yep, that stuff is death to oil passages. Threebond 1184 is the ticket.

[Winston Wolf]

The crank bearings were starting to show some marking, and the crank nuts were not as tight as they should have been, which mucked up the crank pin. Had to have a new crank pin installed.  Trued up perfect, but then at reassembly found the left side race sleeve was moving side to side.  Cases are at Darkhorse now getting machined like a guy would for a Twin Cam Timken conversion.  Probably should have just went with the bigger motor at this point.

[fatbobber]

I also used the Axtell angle top pistons in e few 80 inch evo engines , with headquarters HQ 21 cam ,ported heads and made 100 HP at the real wheel time and time again .
I have the 15 degree angle top pistons ,107 cu inch in my twin cam and this setup is also very fast .
That setup from Axtell works great , those pistons where worth every dollar .
I don't think Axtell is stil in business because there website is closed .

[SP33DY]

The Axtell Angle dome, ported heads, and HQ-0023 was my go-to recipe for customers wanting a fast Evo. I think Ron Dickey retired and sold the business.

[thumper 823]

Unfortunately, Ron is no longer in business, He had a stroke and we all miss him.
 I know a guy in Ohio that  selling hos pistons and cylinders.
I dont know if he is re-chambering the heads.

[IronButt70]

I'm making one of my FXR's a little hotrod.  I'm considering doing a set of the special Axtell Sales 80" pistons where you need to machine out the combustion chamber, port the heads, and run something in the range of a Wood W9 cam. This is a gold/black bike, so I like the gold toned stainless Supertrapp on it...

For the money I will spend to do the stuff above, I'm getting the in the range of a complete engine.  I was considering going to a 96", 103" or even 120" S&S Super Stock. (depending on what I can find)

I have not personally run either the Axtell setup, or a bigger inch S&S Evo.  So I'm looking for opinions.

Have never heard of either of these S&S engines. Do you have a link to them?

96, 111, 124, whatever.  I didn't look up the exact sizes, it doesn't really matter.  I don't have any bikes with S&S engines, so I don't stay up on what they have, nor do I care.  The point/question was asking if it makes more sense to do an 80" or just buy a whole new (used) engine.  Money is not an object, but I'm not into pissing it away either.  If I can build my 80" for 2000$, or get a complete engine for about the same cost, what is the better way to go?

Doesn't the old saying go "there is no replacement for displacement?"

[Hossamania]

The crank bearings were starting to show some marking, and the crank nuts were not as tight as they should have been, which mucked up the crank pin. Had to have a new crank pin installed.  Trued up perfect, but then at reassembly found the left side race sleeve was moving side to side.  Cases are at Darkhorse now getting machined like a guy would for a Twin Cam Timken conversion.  Probably should have just went with the bigger motor at this point.

Quite a while ago, but how did this turn out?

[thumper 823]

For sure building / making a hypo Evil Evo is not for everyone.
Buying a larger cube engine is far more EZ , probably cheaper, and definitely done quicker.
But one loses to bragging rites, meditation, contemplation and the success of doing it.
 1.25 hp per cube is very reliable and quite the narcotic if not narotic ?  LOL
I could have most EZ just went with a Big Delkron case or S&S monster.
But hey,
So what, anyone can do that!