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Open Primary

Started by WhipLash96, February 07, 2021, 07:41:04 AM

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WhipLash96

I am starting a new project and for this project, I am considering using a belt drive. I have no experience with them. A friend of mine told me that they are PITA.

What are the Pro's and Con's for using an open belt drive primary?
Thanks,
Whip

motorhogman

Quote from: WhipLash96 on February 07, 2021, 07:41:04 AM
I am starting a new project and for this project, I am considering using a belt drive. I have no experience with them. A friend of mine told me that they are PITA.

What are the Pro's and Con's for using an open belt drive primary?

Ran a Karata Primary belt on my 73 Supergiide for years.  All pros from my experience.  ran a vented primary, Drilled holes in the it and ran a vented derby cover.  I can't prove it but I think the bike ran cooler.. ran quieter and smoother for sure that way.
where's the points and condenser ?<br />Tom / aka motor

Fugawee

I too had a Primary Belt on a 76' Superglide.  I believe it was a BDL.  I forget...been awhile.  That Bike is long gone.  I ran it open for some time, then just put a guard on it.  I always had a thought of catching something in it...like My leg.  Performance wise, I never had a problem.  I do think that it reduced some of the vibration, but all in all; I had no issues.  A Buddy of Mine just installed one back in the Summer, on His resto-mod 51' Panhead.  He used the original Primary Cover to cover the belt, and so far He says He likes it.  I guess it is a matter of choice, and what year, and model Bike You are thinking about putting it on.

Tacocaster

I ran a 5" BDL in my '96 96ci Stroked EVO FL.

If you like mechanical things, they're great! But alignment is critical to longevity (like anything, really). This should NOT be an issue with a Twinkie.

As regards function...Man, it could really hook-up! making launches exciting when you wanted them to be but there was a noise (kinda musical) factor - not objectionable to me - and again, if you like mechanical things like me, it just added to the cool.

I haven't looked in recent years to comment on today's market but I had a very nice BDL outer bearing support assembly to dress the hell out of it too.

It wasn't cheap but it was unique in my neck of the woods at that time.
We're all A-holes. It's to what degree that makes us different.

misfitJason

I am running, and have run a 3 inch open BDL belt drive on my evo for years. Only parts I have ever changed are the clutch plates and backing plate bearing. I love it. It's noisy. But it is super easy to pull the primary should I need to. Best part is, I got this open primary about twelve or fifteen years ago from one of the people from The horse backstreet choppers magazine for 300 bucks!

free image host
2006 Dyna, Kraftech Evo Softail

WhipLash96

Hmm, so far I am reading all positives. I wonder why he isn't a fan of them? I asked him to elaborate but he wouldn't. I have no problem with a little bit of mechanical noise, that is part of the reason why I like gear drive cams on the Twin Cam. I really want to go with a belt open primary but the one that I will need is nearly $3k! Another thing that I have to be concerned about is if I can use a suicide shift with open primary set up or not?
Thanks,
Whip

Hossamania

Suicide shift shouldn't be any problem, I've seen it quite a few times on open belt drives.
The only real problem is the suicide part...
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

WhipLash96

At this point I'm not so sure Hoss if the suicide shift will work or not. The open primary that I have to use isn't your standard open primary like the BDL's. This one has a cover on the front of the primary, not sure as of yet if that will interfere with any aspect of function of linkage angle or not...
Thanks,
Whip

Fugawee

What is the Bike that You are planning on doing the project on?   Is it a Twin Cam that You mentioned earlier?

WhipLash96

Quote from: Fugawee on February 07, 2021, 02:20:21 PM
What is the Bike that You are planning on doing the project on?   Is it a Twin Cam that You mentioned earlier?

No this isn't for the Twin Cam. This would be for my Sportster.
Thanks,
Whip

Hossamania

What size belt are considering?
If the government gives you everything you want,
it can take away everything you have.

WhipLash96

Quote from: Hossamania on February 07, 2021, 03:20:38 PM
What size belt are considering?

I only have 2 options. Either a 2" or 3"
Thanks,
Whip

rigidthumper

Primary and transmission share fluid in an XL platform, so you have to seal the trans and figure out how to get fluid into the trans and also provide a vent.
I think it's possible on 03 and older, with some machining. Never seen it tried on a rubber mounted XL.
Ignorance is bliss, and accuracy expensive. How much of either can you afford?

WhipLash96

Quote from: rigidthumper on February 07, 2021, 04:55:49 PM
Primary and transmission share fluid in an XL platform, so you have to seal the trans and figure out how to get fluid into the trans and also provide a vent.
I think it's possible on 03 and older, with some machining. Never seen it tried on a rubber mounted XL.

Right on the shared fluid. As far as the available primary is concerned, there is a block off plate and there is a hole so you can feed the transmission with fluid. The available primary seems to be very well thought out. Just for the record, my Sportster is a 96.

Thanks,
Whip

Appowner

I ran a belt on my 77 Iron Head Sportster.  Kept a closed primary though.  Did wonders for that bike.  Made it comfortable at hiway speeds and I could even use the mirrors at 70mph.

Belt was a Phase III.  Don't think they're out there anymore.  Easy conversion on my bike.  Would definitely do it again.

jmorton10

I ran a primary belt for over 20 years in my hot-rod Shovel & had no problems whatever after I switched to a 3" setup.

When I first built the bike I threw on a 2" setup I had in stock already.  After snapping three belts, I gave up on that & went to the 3".

~John
HC 124", Dragula, Pingel air shift W/Dyna Shift Minder & onboard compressor, NOS

kd

Using the 2" belt on my stroked slabside soured me on the early belts around 1974.  I also had one break when 750 miles from home and that's a challenge to get rolling again.  Fortunately I was using tin covers and that meant I was still able to convert back to chain by using a stock sprocket and basket. A double row 60 chain was easily sourced at a farm supply and I was back in the game.  After that, I felt it made me nervous to go anywhere on a belt so I stayed with chain.  I broke one of those too but because I didn't go down when it locked up,  :dgust:  I was able to fix it on the road side with a chain.
KD

thumper 823

I have run belts in my old school shovel, and currently using BDL in my Evil hopped up Evo.
  I guess the dwn side is one can bust anything.
But for my liking, I like the belts so far.
I weighed all the stuff coming and going from the chain delete and when done the Evo lost 30 lbs of slinging weight!
Now 30 lbs is 30 lbs, but when is removed from unsprung or crankshaft dynamics one has accomplished a lot !!
I don't miss the three clunky comps I had to buy , the oil in the primary or the thought of a chain coming apart in there at 80 MPH.
I will guess Harley will have brain fart in the near future and do it all again?
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

WhipLash96

Thanks to those who responded. I think that I am going to stay away from the open primary. I just don't want to spen that kind of money.  :hug:
Thanks,
Whip

thumper 823

To run a belt you dont have to run an open primary...
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

Deye76

Quote from: thumper 823 on February 17, 2021, 05:35:16 PM
To run a belt you dont have to run an open primary...

:up: The key(s) to running a enclosed primary belt is keep it cool and oil free. Vent the primary. As with any belt, alignment is critical.
East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

thumper 823

Rodger that, I have all the holes that came with the stock cover covered from the inside with black gutter screen.
I will have to say it looks Kool too.
 
D Troop 3/5, - C/16 ,162AHC, Mekong delta.
Rising from the Ashes  UHIH

screem

Quote from: WhipLash96 on February 07, 2021, 12:47:42 PM
Hmm, so far I am reading all positives. I wonder why he isn't a fan of them? I asked him to elaborate but he wouldn't. I have no problem with a little bit of mechanical noise, that is part of the reason why I like gear drive cams on the Twin Cam. I really want to go with a belt open primary but the one that I will need is nearly $3k! Another thing that I have to be concerned about is if I can use a suicide shift with open primary set up or not?

Suicide part refers to the clutch set up, its either Jockey Shifter, or a tank shift, i have run both for years... had a shovel set up with a 2" belt- open primary, with a suicde clutch and jockey shift

bump

Knew a guy who ran open primary. Got his pants leg caught between belt and pulley. Yanked him off and under bike. Broke left leg every time it hit pavement, ankle, shin, knee, thigh bone. Back tire then hit the nads. He spent 4 months in hospital.  He never did walk right or ride again. I have been running belt in closed primary for close to 40 years.

WhipLash96

Quote from: screem on February 23, 2021, 06:14:48 PM
Quote from: WhipLash96 on February 07, 2021, 12:47:42 PM
Hmm, so far I am reading all positives. I wonder why he isn't a fan of them? I asked him to elaborate but he wouldn't. I have no problem with a little bit of mechanical noise, that is part of the reason why I like gear drive cams on the Twin Cam. I really want to go with a belt open primary but the one that I will need is nearly $3k! Another thing that I have to be concerned about is if I can use a suicide shift with open primary set up or not?

Suicide part refers to the clutch set up, its either Jockey Shifter, or a tank shift, i have run both for years... had a shovel set up with a 2" belt- open primary, with a suicde clutch and jockey shift
Right. :smiled:
Thanks,
Whip