HOW BIG OF TB DO YOU NEED FOR YOUR MOTOR? INFO HERE.......

[Faast Ed]

ED, If you are going to Quote me Quote the whole sentance. Plus I never put a Tb that is to big for the combination of build no matter if it is a small block chevy or a Harley. There are two kind of engine builders. Builders and Master Builders. I'm a part of the second group.

Okay.("If you are going to Quote me Quote the whole sentence.")

I never put a Tb that is to big for the combination of build no matter if it is a small block chevy or a Harley.

This string is not about you or your building tastes. It is about TB size in general as it relates to all of our builds.
Very informative string, to say the least!

There are two kind of engine builders. Builders and Master Builders. I'm a part of the second group.

If saying that makes you feel better so be it. Your posts speak for themselves. (gotta love that ego)
It takes a real lot to be a master builder.  (I ain't claimin' to be one - too much respect for those who fit that discription).

[GoFast.....]

This confirms what Eric AT HPI said to me about the turn into the port. It is to abrupt and by adding something to smooth it out it flows better.  My only question would be I would hate for that expoxy to come lose and suck it down the engine.

While JET is mentioned, has anyone ever seen this:

http://www.veta.com.au/pages/applications/lotus%5B1%5D.pdf

I was surfing around looking for why you would put golf ball dimples in the intake (from VTF), and stumbled across it. Looks like a JET or R&R port. But my pea brain still doesn't understand it. 

I think it has to do with devoloping a perfect fuel/air mixture, In the old days we used to polish the intake and leave the exhaust rough because we thought it would flow faster. Then we all the testing equipment came out it proved to be the opposite, Rough on the intake and polished on the exhaust. Who would have thought it to be true years ago

[sean fxd]

<<There are two kind of engine builders. Builders and Master Builders. I'm a part of the second group.>>

GoFast -

So you are a master builder?   

What is your shops name and where are you located?  Do you have customer dyno's of the various builds you have done?

Sean

[FLTRI]

 

[Killer]

Lol....That's funny.

[GoFast.....]

<<There are two kind of engine builders. Builders and Master Builders. I'm a part of the second group.>>

GoFast -

So you are a master builder?   

What is your shops name and where are you located?  Do you have customer dyno's of the various builds you have done?

My family owned and operated a Harley Shop for years in Scottsbluff Nebraska, It was called Bluffs Cycle Center. Ever tried to sale a Shovelhead Harley. m50 125, 250 junk sprint built by AMF bowling equipment in the winter to to pay the bills. We raced a Harley Sporster out of our shop in the 70s and 80s . I'll post a picture of the first chooper my brother and I built in our shop. He was 18 and I was 16. 38 years ago, We thought it was pretty "masterful" even at that age.


Now Lets get back to TBs, because I am still all about learning and growing

[nightmare7306]

Ok, how about this build. 95", SE251 cams, 10.25 comp, ported heads but staying with 1.80 intake valve. Bigger tb worth it or is the intake valve the bottleneck?

[GoFast.....]

Ok, how about this build. 95", SE251 cams, 10.25 comp, ported heads but staying with 1.80 intake valve. Bigger tb worth it or is the intake valve the bottleneck?

Nightmare, just off the cuff I would say its the heads, From now on I would get a flow sheet with the ported heads because not all ported heads are equal. Plus There is also no way to know the true compression of your bike without knowing what was done to the heads

[Faast Ed]

So delete your "Hello?" comment that pisses me off

You you delete your "half truth" comment, that pisses me off.

You see Gofast, it works both ways.  Hello?  Bwahahahaha!

[mayor]

this is a good thread with plenty of good information.  Rather than just saying "post your build details and an expert will tell you what to do", why not tell us how we too can become experts.  I think the general thing this thread lacks is a way for the novice engine builder to tie together this information on how it it may affect them and their build. There's been plenty of talk about head flow and TB flow, but no posted examples of what a stock '06 and up head flows at various lifts or what typical flow rates for mild porting and full performance porting. I used the '06 and up heads as an example since most are looking for 96" and up upgrades, but the same information should be listed for the older castings.  Furthermore, the traffic cop in all that air flowing equation (cams), really hasn't been touched on that much either. 

I also think that it should be stressed more that flow rates vary depending on the test pressure method (as Max insinuated in post #2).  A novice may look at his head flowing a maximum of 150cfm (at 10") and be upset that his buddy's heads flowed 235cfm (at 28").  Without putting things into context the information can be confusing. 

jmho,
mayor

[mtnmotorrider]

There are two kinds of baters...   

[HV]

Gentelmen ( and I use that term loosley ) keep it to the point of the original question... and not who had the bigger or better Sand box etc!!  or we will start using the Ban Switch.. ..and this goes for ANY ONE  

[Faast Ed]

You can't dig on Don anymore so you have to find someone else.

I ain't "digging" on nobody Gofast. I was just responding sarcastically to your "cocky" comments.
This is just a message board, you shouldn't get so worked up about it.

Relaaaaax!   LOL   Not everybody builds bikes that require large throttle bodies. Accept that, okay?
The proof is in the posts on this thread, that voice the experiences of many.
It's like buying a product online: The reviews of many tell the story. (Not the reviews of one person).



HV, Please accept my apology.  Had to set the record straight.  If you need to ban or delete, I will understand.

[HV]

Some debates and chest thumping have been carried over here from the old HTT ...and threads will start to just go away ......everyone is entitled to their opinion Mr Fast ... even if it may not agree with yours... live with it... move on

[kevmac]

There are two kinds of baters...   

master and jail?

[se]

  i think you are correct altho i am no expert by any means like i said i can tell you what i have done . i have noticed that there is a lot ofknowledge on this forum and that the experienced builders try to point people in the direction that are proven and true products. the results may vary but i can speak for us is we have made a lot of learning experiences . i have did things to my motor and have taken suggestions from certin so called half a$$ed mail order builders that i should not of with bad results.... finally with a good builder my motor have produced great results and cost me a bundle to acheive. like i said before if i would of listend to the builders who actually know i would probley have 3 bikes in my garage instead on one.

[GoFast.....]

this is a good thread with plenty of good information.  Rather than just saying "post your build details and an expert will tell you what to do", why not tell us how we too can become experts.  I think the general thing this thread lacks is a way for the novice engine builder to tie together this information on how it it may affect them and their build. There's been plenty of talk about head flow and TB flow, but no posted examples of what a stock '06 and up head flows at various lifts or what typical flow rates for mild porting and full performance porting. I used the '06 and up heads as an example since most are looking for 96" and up upgrades, but the same information should be listed for the older castings.  Furthermore, the traffic cop in all that air flowing equation (cams), really hasn't been touched on that much either. 

I also think that it should be stressed more that flow rates vary depending on the test pressure method (as Max insinuated in post #2).  A novice may look at his head flowing a maximum of 150cfm (at 10") and be upset that his buddy's heads flowed 235cfm (at 28").  Without putting things into context the information can be confusing. 

jmho,
mayor

Mayor maybe this will help novices.

I pick a number I want to hit with my builds and then start working back. Lets say I want to hit 115 hp and tq with a 96 plate form. The first thing I do is studying dyno sheets of people that have done it and have gone before. IF you haven't been there then you do not know how to get there. I personally will study dyno sheets on various sites Latus has a huge amount and the old htt. I then begin to study the three or four sheets in detail and begin to talk with them.

I also begin to talk to the cam people who make the cams like Bob Wood, Mike Roland.TMan. Brain Nallin and then tell them my goal.

I then talk to  the heads porter. He has to be a guy who can make serious power. This is not the place to cut corners. If the head can't flow it it make no difference what the stick is. There are a number of head porting guys on Htt that can get ur done.

I then talk to the TBs guys and get his recommendation.

I then talk to people that know pipes comes to the pipe which is also a study time in the dyno section. I TELL YOU WHAT THIS IS SERIOUS STUFF AND ENGINE BUILDING HAS BECOME A LAND OF THE SPECIALIST.

This sometimes can be a long process or you can call a guy and just order a whole package deal which is what most people should do. 100 110 115 120 pick your HP and buy the package. I personally enjoy the journey

The next thing is the assembly. I have learned the more rushed I am the more mistake so I take my time.

The next thing is the tune.I would drive 500 miles to have my bike tuned by a "Master Tuner". I love the TMax but adjusting  the ignition on a dyno is getting the most out of your build.

I am sure I missed something that others can jump in on

[se]

I pick a number I want to hit with my builds and then start working back. Lets say I want to hit 115 hp and tq with a 96 plate form. The first thing I do is studying dyno sheets of people that have done it and have gone before. IF you haven't been there then you do not know how to get there. I personally will study dyno sheets on various sites Latus has a huge amount and the old htt. I then begin to study the three or four sheets in detail and begin to talk with them.

I also begin to talk to the cam people who make the cams like Bob Wood, Mike Roland.TMan. Brain Nallin and then tell them my goal.

I then talk to  the heads porter. He has to be a guy who can make serious power. This is not the place to cut corners. If the head can't flow it it make no difference what the stick is. There are a number of head porting guys on Htt that can get ur done.

I then talk to the TBs guys and get his recommendation.

I then talk to people that know pipes comes to the pipe which is also a study time in the dyno section. I TELL YOU WHAT THIS IS SERIOUS STUFF AND ENGINE BUILDING HAS BECOME A LAND OF THE SPECIALIST.

This sometimes can be a long process or you can call a guy and just order a whole package deal which is what most people should do. 100 110 115 120 pick your HP and buy the package. I personally enjoy the journey

The next thing is the assembly. I have learned the more rushed I am the more mistake so I take my time.

The next thing is the tune.I would drive 500 miles to have my bike tuned by a "Master Tuner". I love the TMax but adjusting  the ignition on a dyno is getting the most out of your build.

I am sure I missed something that others can jump in on



[/quote]

when you see the smile on their face when they wack the throttle on a finely tuned and built machine ... ..
also i know that we are talking about t/b but one thing also over looked is the pipe you said it "SERIOUS STUFF" it can make or break a build.

a lot of packages that people sell do not produce to the maximum because people scrimp on the tune the tune is the finale of a build go to a good tuner and you will feel the diffrence.

[GoFast.....]

<<There are two kind of engine builders. Builders and Master Builders. I'm a part of the second group.>>

GoFast -

So you are a master builder?   

What is your shops name and where are you located?  Do you have customer dyno's of the various builds you have done?

My family owned and operated a Harley Shop for years in Scottsbluff Nebraska, It was called Bluffs Cycle Center. Ever tried to sale a Shovelhead Harley. m50 125, 250 junk sprint built by AMF bowling equipment in the winter to to pay the bills. We raced a Harley Sporster out of our shop in the 70s and 80s . I'll post a picture of the first chooper my brother and I built in our shop. He was 18 and I was 16. 38 years ago, We thought it was pretty "masterful" even at that age.


Now Lets get back to TBs, because I am still all about learning and growing

Here is my first chopper that I built38 years ago at the age of 16 in 1970. If it kind of looks like a Green Peter Fonda chooper. Well when you are raised in a Harley shop and you see the movie. The next day you were building one. I'm the good looking one on the left

[CraigArizona85248]

MAN!  I love that bike!  Sorry.... off topic... back to our regularly scheduled program...

[skyhook]

how big a tb did the pan/shovel need?

[GoFast.....]

how big a tb did the pan/shovel need?

Pans where to slow to care, We were racing Sporties with telton carbs, stroked motors, sifton -- cams and dykes Jugs and NO electric start. Had to be a Man to Start them. Running in the low 12s in the early 70s

[skyhook]

I hear ya buddy...my first ride was an '69 xl, weld-on hardtail, 12 over girder, magneto, 5 wire, battery eliminator, iron cross taillight, etc....my leg still hurts from kicking and that was a long time ago

[Admiral Akbar]

<<There are two kind of engine builders. Builders and Master Builders. I'm a part of the second group.>>

GoFast -

So you are a master builder?   

What is your shops name and where are you located?  Do you have customer dyno's of the various builds you have done?

Sean

Did Gofast say really was this?  TFF. I think he's baiting you... which might make him a master ...

Max

[ederdelyi]

OH MY!

Hmmm, I'm a pretty good fisherman. Does that make me a master ...

Naw, that's spelled b-a-i-t-e-r. :>)

I've built more than a few motors in my time, but that don't necessarily make one a "master" builder. My hat is off to those that truly are. But hey, attitude has to count for something, i guess. "I think, therefore I am". Good luck with that one, should work out real well for ya!