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When did HD eliminate the Timken crankcase bearing?

Started by KevH, March 02, 2021, 01:05:32 PM

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KevH

I'm looking at purchasing a 2003 model year FLHTC that was delivered to the dealership in October 2002.

When did HD eliminate the Timken crankcase bearing?

Is it possible this bike has one?

Scotty

Not likely they stopped at the end of the 2002 production year and all 2003 had normal bearings.
Of course one could retrofit a timken in with a sleeve after pulling the motor apart.
2003 cranks appear to be fairly stout so unless you hot rod the motor I doubt you would have much problem.

KevH

Thanks, the bike is completely stock right now and the hope would be to do an S&S gear drive cam kit. I know the 2002 is usually preferable for this, but this '03 has under 20k miles and seems otherwise pristine.

Scotty

I have put gear drive cams in a few 03's and all had the crank within spec for gears.

Ohio HD

Quote from: KevH on March 02, 2021, 01:20:14 PM
Thanks, the bike is completely stock right now and the hope would be to do an S&S gear drive cam kit. I know the 2002 is usually preferable for this, but this '03 has under 20k miles and seems otherwise pristine.

Don't do it without first checking the crank runout.

FSG

Quote from: Scotty on March 02, 2021, 01:40:19 PM
I have put gear drive cams in a few 03's and all had the crank within spec for gears.

I have to BUT I'd not go  S&S gears now, unless you're going to hot rod it IMO the the HD Hydro Tensioners are a better/cheaper option

Pirsch Fire Wagon

Both the Forged Crank and Timkens were eliminated in all 2002 T-C model year motorcycles.
Tom

Scotty

Quote from: FSG on March 02, 2021, 02:24:42 PM
Quote from: Scotty on March 02, 2021, 01:40:19 PM
I have put gear drive cams in a few 03's and all had the crank within spec for gears.

I have to BUT I'd not go  S&S gears now, unless you're going to hot rod it IMO the the HD Hydro Tensioners are a better/cheaper option

But you are limited to conversion cams if you use the full setup from memory OR have them ground and a cap put on OR en-largen the hole in the crankcase for the bigger internal bearing.
Things change so I could be wrong.................

838

Unless you're going to be doing more than just a cam swap, just get an Andrews 21N and a cam plate and pump (with all the components... chains, sprockets, everything) for an 07 or up bike... bulletproof and can tolerate a little run out (if there).

Ohio HD

Quote from: 838 on March 02, 2021, 04:13:47 PM
Unless you're going to be doing more than just a cam swap, just get an Andrews 21N and a cam plate and pump (with all the components... chains, sprockets, everything) for an 07 or up bike... bulletproof and can tolerate a little run out (if there).


   bulletproof?     :scratch:

838

Quote from: Ohio HD on March 02, 2021, 04:19:20 PM
Quote from: 838 on March 02, 2021, 04:13:47 PM
Unless you're going to be doing more than just a cam swap, just get an Andrews 21N and a cam plate and pump (with all the components... chains, sprockets, everything) for an 07 or up bike... bulletproof and can tolerate a little run out (if there).


   bulletproof?     :scratch:

Fair enough... Bulletproof may be a bit overstated. But it's a very dependable setup nonetheless 👍

KevH

Quote from: Pirsch Fire Wagon on March 02, 2021, 02:29:37 PM
Both the Forged Crank and Timkens were eliminated in all 2002 T-C model year motorcycles.

Weren't 2003's cold forged?

hattitude

Quote from: KevH on March 02, 2021, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: Pirsch Fire Wagon on March 02, 2021, 02:29:37 PM

Both the Forged Crank and Timkens were eliminated in all 2002 T-C model year motorcycles.


Weren't 2003's cold forged?


I read that a while back.  Here's what I saved about it...  sorry but I forgot to note the source, so it's just hearsay at this point;

'99-'02 hot forged/Timken, 4.000" stroke
'03-'04 cold forged/roller, 4.000" stroke
'05-'06 cast/roller, 4.000" stroke
'06 Dyna cast/roller, 4.000" stroke, sprocket shaft accepts new compensating assy.
'07-present cast/roller, 4.375" stroke, sprocket shaft accepts new compensating assy.

There was some overlap between model years as it was as "running" change. If in doubt, you can check by removing your crank position sensor and, using a flashlight, look at the flywheel OD. If the sensor trips are machined you have a hot or cold forged unit.



FWIW... when I did the '07+ cam plate conversion on my 2003, it had 21K miles, and had max 0.0025" run out as measured with a Fueling gauge...

Scotty

Quote from: 838 on March 02, 2021, 04:13:47 PM
Unless you're going to be doing more than just a cam swap, just get an Andrews 21N and a cam plate and pump (with all the components... chains, sprockets, everything) for an 07 or up bike... bulletproof and can tolerate a little run out (if there).

no such thing as bulletproof when it comes to Harleys these are 07 up hydraulic tensioners

[attach=0,msg1379763]
[attach=1,msg1379763]

FSG

Quoteno such thing as bulletproof when it comes to Harleys

:agree:

Quotethese are 07 up hydraulic tensioners

damage like that I've seen is all attributable to the tensioners being assembled the wrong way prior to installation

Scotty

Quote from: FSG on March 02, 2021, 10:41:17 PM
damage like that I've seen is all attributable to the tensioners being assembled the wrong way prior to installation

I know and it still happens because they look like they assemble one way but in fact it's incorrect.
In your hand you would swear the spring goes inside the piston.
[attach=0]

smoserx1

Everybody ought to print out that illustration and put it in your service manual or on your garage/shop wall.  When I did my conversion cams one of the little "grenade" pins had come out of the tensioner assembly with the parts loose in the little bag so I was forced to look up how they went together.  In retrospect I am glad I did.

FSG

I'll find and post it again but I've posted a pic many times in the past with a green tick and a red X to highlight the right and wrong way of assembly

kd

KD

PoorUB

I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!

Coyote

Quote from: FSG on March 03, 2021, 05:08:49 AM
I'll find and post it again but I've posted a pic many times in the past with a green tick and a red X to highlight the right and wrong way of assembly

A quick search found one of your previous posts.


Ohio HD

Quote from: PoorUB on March 03, 2021, 07:18:10 AM
Gears never fail?

Gears only fail when another part fails. Crank, cam, debris in the gear mesh etc. the gear itself is not going to fail on its own.

tdkkart

 I remember when the timken vs caged bearing/2002 vs 2003 thing first came about, lots of hand wringing, arm waving and hair pulling, but did anything ever really come of it??
Predictions were that there would be flocks of bikes laying on the shoulders of the roads all over America, travelers stranded everywhere, yet I can't come up with anyone I know who's bike has died a horrible death, and I know of several bikes over 100,000mi.

Deye76

tdkkart, LOL, for sure. And they were saying you needed a Delkron billet cam plate, or you'd kill your new motor.
East Tenn.<br /> 2020 Lowrider S Touring, 2014 CVO RK,  1992 FXRP

les

Quote from: tdkkart on May 17, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
I remember when the timken vs caged bearing/2002 vs 2003 thing first came about, lots of hand wringing, arm waving and hair pulling, but did anything ever really come of it??
Predictions were that there would be flocks of bikes laying on the shoulders of the roads all over America, travelers stranded everywhere, yet I can't come up with anyone I know who's bike has died a horrible death, and I know of several bikes over 100,000mi.

I personally know of a 113" that a dealership built that died a horrible death due to the non-Timken bottom end.  They were forced to re-do under warranty.