When did HD eliminate the Timken crankcase bearing?

[KevH]

I'm looking at purchasing a 2003 model year FLHTC that was delivered to the dealership in October 2002.

When did HD eliminate the Timken crankcase bearing?

Is it possible this bike has one?

[Scotty]

Not likely they stopped at the end of the 2002 production year and all 2003 had normal bearings.
Of course one could retrofit a timken in with a sleeve after pulling the motor apart.
2003 cranks appear to be fairly stout so unless you hot rod the motor I doubt you would have much problem.

[KevH]

Thanks, the bike is completely stock right now and the hope would be to do an S&S gear drive cam kit. I know the 2002 is usually preferable for this, but this '03 has under 20k miles and seems otherwise pristine.

[Scotty]

I have put gear drive cams in a few 03's and all had the crank within spec for gears.

[Ohio HD]

Thanks, the bike is completely stock right now and the hope would be to do an S&S gear drive cam kit. I know the 2002 is usually preferable for this, but this '03 has under 20k miles and seems otherwise pristine.

Don't do it without first checking the crank runout.

[FSG]

I have put gear drive cams in a few 03's and all had the crank within spec for gears.

I have to BUT I'd not go  S&S gears now, unless you're going to hot rod it IMO the the HD Hydro Tensioners are a better/cheaper option

[Pirsch Fire Wagon]

Both the Forged Crank and Timkens were eliminated in all 2002 T-C model year motorcycles.

[Scotty]

I have put gear drive cams in a few 03's and all had the crank within spec for gears.

I have to BUT I'd not go  S&S gears now, unless you're going to hot rod it IMO the the HD Hydro Tensioners are a better/cheaper option

But you are limited to conversion cams if you use the full setup from memory OR have them ground and a cap put on OR en-largen the hole in the crankcase for the bigger internal bearing.
Things change so I could be wrong.................

[838]

Unless you're going to be doing more than just a cam swap, just get an Andrews 21N and a cam plate and pump (with all the components... chains, sprockets, everything) for an 07 or up bike... bulletproof and can tolerate a little run out (if there).

[Ohio HD]

Unless you're going to be doing more than just a cam swap, just get an Andrews 21N and a cam plate and pump (with all the components... chains, sprockets, everything) for an 07 or up bike... bulletproof and can tolerate a little run out (if there).

   bulletproof?     

[838]

Unless you're going to be doing more than just a cam swap, just get an Andrews 21N and a cam plate and pump (with all the components... chains, sprockets, everything) for an 07 or up bike... bulletproof and can tolerate a little run out (if there).

   bulletproof?     

Fair enough... Bulletproof may be a bit overstated. But it's a very dependable setup nonetheless 👍

[KevH]

Both the Forged Crank and Timkens were eliminated in all 2002 T-C model year motorcycles.

Weren't 2003's cold forged?

[hattitude]

Both the Forged Crank and Timkens were eliminated in all 2002 T-C model year motorcycles.

Weren't 2003's cold forged?

I read that a while back.  Here's what I saved about it...  sorry but I forgot to note the source, so it's just hearsay at this point;

'99-'02 hot forged/Timken, 4.000" stroke
'03-'04 cold forged/roller, 4.000" stroke
'05-'06 cast/roller, 4.000" stroke
'06 Dyna cast/roller, 4.000" stroke, sprocket shaft accepts new compensating assy.
'07-present cast/roller, 4.375" stroke, sprocket shaft accepts new compensating assy.

There was some overlap between model years as it was as "running" change. If in doubt, you can check by removing your crank position sensor and, using a flashlight, look at the flywheel OD. If the sensor trips are machined you have a hot or cold forged unit.


FWIW... when I did the '07+ cam plate conversion on my 2003, it had 21K miles, and had max 0.0025" run out as measured with a Fueling gauge...

[Scotty]

Unless you're going to be doing more than just a cam swap, just get an Andrews 21N and a cam plate and pump (with all the components... chains, sprockets, everything) for an 07 or up bike... bulletproof and can tolerate a little run out (if there).

no such thing as bulletproof when it comes to Harleys these are 07 up hydraulic tensioners

[attach=0,msg1379763]
[attach=1,msg1379763]

[FSG]

no such thing as bulletproof when it comes to Harleys

these are 07 up hydraulic tensioners

damage like that I've seen is all attributable to the tensioners being assembled the wrong way prior to installation

[Scotty]

damage like that I've seen is all attributable to the tensioners being assembled the wrong way prior to installation

I know and it still happens because they look like they assemble one way but in fact it's incorrect.
In your hand you would swear the spring goes inside the piston.
[attach=0]

[smoserx1]

Everybody ought to print out that illustration and put it in your service manual or on your garage/shop wall.  When I did my conversion cams one of the little "grenade" pins had come out of the tensioner assembly with the parts loose in the little bag so I was forced to look up how they went together.  In retrospect I am glad I did.

[FSG]

I'll find and post it again but I've posted a pic many times in the past with a green tick and a red X to highlight the right and wrong way of assembly

[kd]

 

[PoorUB]

Gears never fail?

[Coyote]

I'll find and post it again but I've posted a pic many times in the past with a green tick and a red X to highlight the right and wrong way of assembly

A quick search found one of your previous posts.

[Ohio HD]

Gears never fail?

Gears only fail when another part fails. Crank, cam, debris in the gear mesh etc. the gear itself is not going to fail on its own.

[tdkkart]

 I remember when the timken vs caged bearing/2002 vs 2003 thing first came about, lots of hand wringing, arm waving and hair pulling, but did anything ever really come of it??
Predictions were that there would be flocks of bikes laying on the shoulders of the roads all over America, travelers stranded everywhere, yet I can't come up with anyone I know who's bike has died a horrible death, and I know of several bikes over 100,000mi.

[Deye76]

tdkkart, LOL, for sure. And they were saying you needed a Delkron billet cam plate, or you'd kill your new motor.

[les]

I remember when the timken vs caged bearing/2002 vs 2003 thing first came about, lots of hand wringing, arm waving and hair pulling, but did anything ever really come of it??
Predictions were that there would be flocks of bikes laying on the shoulders of the roads all over America, travelers stranded everywhere, yet I can't come up with anyone I know who's bike has died a horrible death, and I know of several bikes over 100,000mi.

I personally know of a 113" that a dealership built that died a horrible death due to the non-Timken bottom end.  They were forced to re-do under warranty. 

[joelp34252]

The early twin cams had problems with the nut that holds the compensator coming loose. Harley fixed that on the six speeds but had other issues with the compensators. When the nut came loose with the timkens, the crank would rattle side to side but the Timkens could take the side thrust.When they went to the roller bearing in 2003, the roller was not made for side thrust and could blow a side out of the bearing if the compensator came loose. The roller bearing is actually rated much higher for radial load but is not very good handling side loading. When the comp nut came loose you would hear the noise but if your pipes were loud enough and your hearing was bad you might miss it. They only produced a few years with old style comp and roller bearings. I think it was 03-06 with possibly some variance, but dont quote me.

Joel 2001 FLHT
      1983 FXRT

[FXDBI]

I remember when the timken vs caged bearing/2002 vs 2003 thing first came about, lots of hand wringing, arm waving and hair pulling, but did anything ever really come of it??
Predictions were that there would be flocks of bikes laying on the shoulders of the roads all over America, travelers stranded everywhere, yet I can't come up with anyone I know who's bike has died a horrible death, and I know of several bikes over 100,000mi.

I personally know of a 113" that a dealership built that died a horrible death due to the non-Timken bottom end.  They were forced to re-do under warranty.

Please tell us How it was attributed to a non timken bottom end. Lots of big HP builds out there with out.
Was it rebuilt with a timken the 2nd time?  Bob

[BigT]

I had Darkhorse balance my M8 bottom end when I installed the 124" setup and we discussed if doing a Timken conversion was necessary. I still have the roller bearings.

[C-Cat]

Lefty Bearings in my 124 Twin Cam. Going to be building another this winter and also going to be no timken. I've had the screw heads break off not once but twice when I was running the SE timken Bearing.

[les]

I remember when the timken vs caged bearing/2002 vs 2003 thing first came about, lots of hand wringing, arm waving and hair pulling, but did anything ever really come of it??
Predictions were that there would be flocks of bikes laying on the shoulders of the roads all over America, travelers stranded everywhere, yet I can't come up with anyone I know who's bike has died a horrible death, and I know of several bikes over 100,000mi.

I personally know of a 113" that a dealership built that died a horrible death due to the non-Timken bottom end.  They were forced to re-do under warranty.

Please tell us How it was attributed to a non timken bottom end. Lots of big HP builds out there with out.
Was it rebuilt with a timken the 2nd time?  Bob

With a higher power engine, the sprocket shaft pulls sideways on the rollers and pushes against the sidewall of the bearing cage.  That sidewall is the weak part of the roller bearing.  Yes, when the dealership rebuilt the engine (warranty) they did the Timken conversion.