Main Drive Gear Seal

[Nastytls]

Is this the same between HD factory and the Grudgebox?

[les]

If it's the smaller seal, then yes.  In terms of the larger seal, I've gotten mixed information about that.  However, most of the information is that the larger seal is the same as OEM.

[Nastytls]

Yes, the larger one that presses in to the transmission case.

Thanks.

[les]

Yes, the larger one that presses in to the transmission case.

Thanks.

There have been issues with the Grudge Box bearing and that big seal.  I've experienced them first hand with my own bike.  Of course the problem is leaking, after about 15k - 20k miles.  Some have said that, since the pulley spacer is narrow, that sometimes the seal can be installed too deep and one of the lips hangs over the inner edge of the spacer...or at least runs on the edge.  In my case the two lips were centered (not near any edge) and the seal just wore through the anodizing of the spacer, causing a tranny oil leak.  The solution is to replace both.

I would always keep an extra pair of the seal and spacer hanging on the wall of my garage.  Both of these I'd obtain from Baker.

I will tell you that looking at the Baker vs. the OEM seal closely, I can't tell the difference.

My last point is that you should be prepared for the seal/spacer to leak after a while.  I'm a long distance rider and I even kept a pair in my saddle bag in case I'd have to stop at a dealership and have them perform the replacement. 

[Nastytls]

Good to know, thanks. It's somewhat frustrating to think that I may have to go in to my primary every 15k... There must have been some changes to Baker's manufacturing tolerances. The Grudgebox in my 09' Dyna came with 3 shims, and was within spec on the pre-installed white shim. This Grudgebox for my 18 RG, came with 6 shims and I had to install the largest blue one to get within spec. I had zero bearing play with 4 of the 6 shims... To me, it was a bit alarming doing this and thinking back to the ease of install with the Dyna.

The seal is cheap from HD, so I'll pick up a couple of them. Is there a part number for the spacer, or did you just call Baker and explain the part that you wanted.

[kd]

I went on the Baker chat line within an hour of this thread posting.  I asked the very same question about the interchangeability with the OEM seal. The chat line did NOT answer me but asked for my email address.  It said it could be a few minutes before a response.  This is over 24 hrs later and no email.  That may mean it is but they won't say because they don't want to lose a sale.  It would be nice to know if it became a problem on a trip.

[Pirsch Fire Wagon]

Call Baker direct and discuss with them. There may be an update. Perhaps both the Bearing and Seal.

[les]

Good to know, thanks. It's somewhat frustrating to think that I may have to go in to my primary every 15k... There must have been some changes to Baker's manufacturing tolerances. The Grudgebox in my 09' Dyna came with 3 shims, and was within spec on the pre-installed white shim. This Grudgebox for my 18 RG, came with 6 shims and I had to install the largest blue one to get within spec. I had zero bearing play with 4 of the 6 shims... To me, it was a bit alarming doing this and thinking back to the ease of install with the Dyna.

The seal is cheap from HD, so I'll pick up a couple of them. Is there a part number for the spacer, or did you just call Baker and explain the part that you wanted.

Sorry for the delay...   I like part numbers too, but I don't have one for the Baker spacer.  I did my order of the seal/spacer pairs over the phone with Baker.  Again, I do recommend having a spare set in the garage because in my experience that pink quarter/half dollar appears kind of suddenly under the bike in the garage.  There isn't much warning.

[les]

Here is a photo of the spacer that leaked.  You can see that both lips of the seal were well within the center area...not anywhere close to an edge.  However as mentioned, some have posted that they attribute their leaks to a lip being at the edge.

[kd]

FWIW I have yet to get a response to my question to Baker even though there was a promise to do so in a few minutes.     Maybe they are too busy to answer questions.

[hattitude]

FWIW I have yet to get a response to my question to Baker even though there was a promise to do so in a few minutes.     Maybe they are too busy to answer questions.

Or...

They don't want the answer to be in writing in an email....     

[kd]

I was being facetious.   

[hattitude]

I was being facetious.   

[Nastytls]

Here is a photo of the spacer that leaked.  You can see that both lips of the seal were well within the center area...not anywhere close to an edge.  However as mentioned, some have posted that they attribute their leaks to a lip being at the edge.

That looks about as close to perfect spacing as you could expect. Were the wear marks rough, or was it just the color that has worn through? Considering its constantly spinning against that seal, I don't see how it wouldn't end up with wear marks.

[kd]

  Well I guess I'm a little red faced now.  I found a response from Baker in my quarantine file received at 2:40 PM on the 7th.  They did get back to me the same day.  I was asked for the part number so they could be sure they give me the correct information.  Does anyone have the OEM seal part number handy?  I see #12074 in Ronnie's parts Look-up for my 2011 RGU.  Is there an earlier series part number also?  If I get 2 different numbers I will respond with them and report back what they say.

[SP33DY]

12074 is correct from 2006 to 2020.

[kd]

I just got a quick answer from Linda at Baker.  Here's the meat of what she said.

"The 12074 MDG seal is a H-D part number, however BAKER has these specifically made for the GrudgeBox with a heavier spring. The H-D seal will work".

I have in the past pulled the spring out and wound it in to itself to tighten the lip when I couldn't get a seal.  It has always worked for me.  It sounds like they do it from the get go.  IMO that would keep it in contact when there is bearing play or flex from heavy power applications.

[Buglet]

  I had a Street Bob that you could move the MDG about .045 and it did not leak any oil, it did growl. Had the stock seal in there. Years ago the Baker seals were know to leak. 

[les]

Here is a photo of the spacer that leaked.  You can see that both lips of the seal were well within the center area...not anywhere close to an edge.  However as mentioned, some have posted that they attribute their leaks to a lip being at the edge.

That looks about as close to perfect spacing as you could expect. Were the wear marks rough, or was it just the color that has worn through? Considering its constantly spinning against that seal, I don't see how it wouldn't end up with wear marks.

Yes, it is just about perfect spacing.  The wear marks were not rough.  Only rubber from the seal wears on the outside of the spacer.  As mentioned, only the anodizing wore through.

[les]

I just got a quick answer from Linda at Baker.  Here's the meat of what she said.

"The 12074 MDG seal is a H-D part number, however BAKER has these specifically made for the GrudgeBox with a heavier spring. The H-D seal will work".

I have in the past pulled the spring out and wound it in to itself to tighten the lip when I couldn't get a seal.  It has always worked for me.  It sounds like they do it from the get go.  IMO that would keep it in contact when there is bearing play or flex from heavy power applications.

Thanks for refreshing my memory.  In other words, I thought there was something about the Baker seal that is the same as OEM and something that's not.  You got the answer for us...it's the spring that's not.  This is why I ordered my spare sets directly from Baker.

Again, if there are any of you cross country riders out there with Baker Grudge Box bearings (either for OEM six speed or Grudge Box tranny) then I'd keep a spare set of (from Baker) seal/spacer/o-ring in the saddle bag.  Any H-D dealership can replace these...but only if they have those three critical parts.  Plus, they hardly take up any saddle bag space at all. 

As just mentioned above, don't forget the Baker spacer o-ring.  I think I forgot to mention the spacer o-ring in my previous posts.