Pigtails or Hayden oil fix

[1340evo]

Whilst I'm in bit's.. is it worth fitting either of these?

Or even making something on my lathe to fit?... any one made similar things?

[Scotty]

Pigtails is all I use and they work. Never made them I have the tap and tool so just buy the tubes.

[SixShooter14]

Pigtails is all I use and they work. Never made them I have the tap and tool so just buy the tubes.

[JW113]

If you install one of these, it's also far less likely to leak. At least, while the motor is running.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/253213372444?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

The problem with the older "non-head breather" models (Evo, Shovel, Pan, Knuck) is they run with a little bit of positive crankcase pressure. Which tends to push oil out anywhere it can. After the head breather Evos, they run with about a 2"Hg (average) negative pressure. I have one of those gadgets on all my bikes except twin cam, and now none of them leak. That is, if ran regularly. If they sit for long periods, they will wet sump to some degree, and a big pool of oil in the crankcase tends to weep out and drip a little. But no more Exxon Valdez sized oil slicks on the garage floor anymore.

I don't have anything against Pig Tales, but I don't have them on my bikes and they don't leak at the base gaskets. Pig Tales were a nice fix in the days of paper base gaskets, which tended to get brittle with age, and with internal crankcase pressure, would blow out. They also only address the drain back holes, not the entire circumference of the cylinder/case junction. These new Foamet or steel w/ silicone bead base base gaskets are essentially "blow out proof".

-JW

[Scotty]

I don't have anything against Pig Tales, but I don't have them on my bikes and they don't leak at the base gaskets. Pig Tales were a nice fix in the days of paper base gaskets, which tended to get brittle with age, and with internal crankcase pressure, would blow out. They also only address the drain back holes, not the entire circumference of the cylinder/case junction. These new Foamet or steel w/ silicone bead base base gaskets are essentially "blow out proof".

Pigtails and Cometic base and head gaskets and guarantee no leaks and no blow outs and it never will leak ever again.

[hogget]

cant find anything online about pigtails except battery tender connectors - what are they?

[1340evo]

If you install one of these, it's also far less likely to leak. At least, while the motor is running.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/253213372444?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


-JW

Looks an interesting item, but guess it is just a ribber flap onto a seat. Mine is bottom breathing and I just run the pipe to a small filter under the bike.... Will this improve anything? it may help create a bit of negative pressure maybe?

[1340evo]

cant find anything online about pigtails except battery tender connectors - what are they?

here you go.. got to say as of about 2 weeks ago, I had no idea either... https://www.amazon.com/HARDWARE-BASE-GASKET-PASS-PIGTAIL/dp/B07PV6PLY5

[Dan89flstc]

True the bottoms of the cylinders, this will do more than any of the aftermarket gizmos to prevent future base gasket leaks.

[1340evo]

I think its more to do with what happens over time. My jugs are 30 plus years old so should be well seasoned by now. But the bases were not 100% flat before I skimmed them.
I'm sure you are right, and the amount I'll use the Hog over the other bikes is minimal. Just want to get things as good as possible....

[JW113]

Looks an interesting item, but guess it is just a ribber flap onto a seat. Mine is bottom breathing and I just run the pipe to a small filter under the bike.... Will this improve anything? it may help create a bit of negative pressure maybe?

My Evo, Shovel, and Indian are all case breathers, and I have one of these vent valves in the vent line on all of them. This essentially copies the same idea as head breathers, in fact the valve (which is replaceable) looks just like the valve in a head breather. It's just a one way rubber valve.

-JW

[1340evo]

so whats the end result here, do you think it gives a slight negative pressure in the cases instead of positive?     

[JW113]

Both my Shovelhead and Indian would ooze oil out in all sorts of places. After the crank vent, no more. So I'd say yes, slight vacuum inside the crankcase.

-JW

[jsachs1]

"I don't leave home without them".
Every EVO I do engine work on gets Pigtails when the cylinders are off. I stay way to busy to have any possible oil leak problems.
John

[1340evo]

Thanks both.... im on it 

Mmm nothing available in the UK...  may have to make some...

[Scotty]

"I don't leave home without them".
Every EVO I do engine work on gets Pigtails when the cylinders are off. I stay way to busy to have any possible oil leak problems.
John

John knows what he is talking about more than most on this site.

[1340evo]

assume there is 1 per jug on the lowest hole. Do they have a hex in the middle so you can install them?

[Scotty]

assume there is 1 per jug on the lowest hole. Do they have a hex in the middle so you can install them?

correct hex is in threaded bit and done up from the top of cylinder

[1340evo]

top of the cylinder    ill see what I can make 

[FSG]

click => pigtail destructions

[1340evo]

Will see what can be done tomorrow,  you could have a long tube all the way from the top of the cylinder and sealing there, bit more meat than the base...

[ghostrider]

I fixed a friends leaky evo this winter and also debated what "fix" to use.  I found a Trock lapping plate, so that was done first, then I used the pigtails, based on searching on here and reading that John spoke highly of them.  Kinda pricey, but leaks suck. Getting the tap perfectly lined up is a bit challenging.

Thanks for those instructions FSG.

[1340evo]

Well, I had a play today, didn't tap anything but just turned a brass piece exact size of the hole in the barrel. On fast feed it kind of put a small thread on the piece and I could screw it in to the point it was just sub-flush of the surface and solid.

Forgive me here as I work in mm and not imperial, but basically you have an 8mm hole in the barrels, going into a 6.3 mm hole in the cases. The oil comes down and collects on the gasket as that's where it necks down.

I guess all you're trying to do is bridge the sealing point from the base, over the gasket and into the crank case bore... so why are pigtails so long?

In fact something that seals into the barrel drain and only goes 1/4" onto the case should do the job, so it pools on the insert and does not see the joint.

A couple of pics of what I was messing with, I was inserting it with a M5 thread up the bore, but it's getting too thin, and brass is not ideal, you need something a bit more malleable. I could make them from copper and it has the same expansion as Ali.

But something that presses in with let's say bearing lock to seal it, and goes into the cases a few mm should work. What do you think?

[Scotty]

The tube actually comes out of the cylinder on a bit of an angle and copper is a bit more malleable to get the tube down the hole in the case correctly.
Yes the pigtails are long but can be cut down as they only need to be long enough to go through the case.

[1340evo]

yes, been looking since. I guess the instructions say to tap it deeper so the head is lets say 1/4" up the drain. The drain in the barrel is angled where as the hole in the case is straight, so having fitted the pigtale, you then need to put a slight bend on the pipe so it fits into the case, hence the need to go deeper so you have a length in the barrel you can bend.
I'll see if I can find some tube like copper brake pipe or something.

If the ID is 3/16" whats the OD.

Also, does anyone know what thread is used. M9 x 1.25 would work well but guess its UNC looking at the pics.. maybe 3/8"?

And how do the brass ones work like in FSG's pic? if they are brass, how can you bend them?