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Pigtails or Hayden oil fix

Started by 1340evo, May 19, 2021, 02:07:53 PM

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Scotty

Quote from: 1340evo on May 22, 2021, 03:04:51 PM
If the ID is 3/16" whats the OD.
Also, does anyone know what thread is used. M9 x 1.25 would work well but guess its UNC looking at the pics.. maybe 3/8"?
And how do the brass ones work like in FSG's pic? if they are brass, how can you bend them?

As long as they fit into the hole in the crankcase that is what the OD is. FSG's photo looks like they have been sanded as they mention in the instructions to slide easily into the crankcase holes.
Test the fit of the PigTail® in the crankcase drain hole, by inserting at least l" of the
PigTail's® drain tube end into that hole (sec Figure 5). If the drain tube cannot be inserted
at least l" into the crankcase drain hole without undue force, sand the outer diameter of the
tube end until the PigTail® can be inserted freely.



3/8 x 16 tpi tap which is UNC but it is a aluminum tap

Everyone I have put in I always thought the threaded end was brass and the tubes copper
[attach=0,msg1386646]

1340evo

May 23, 2021, 02:46:38 AM #26 Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 06:59:16 AM by 1340evo
Thannks for that, Thought it would be 3/8 but looking at them, could it be UNF?

I'll get some tube and some brass ends turner up and then braze them in as they have done here :)

FXDBI

Quote from: 1340evo on May 23, 2021, 02:46:38 AM
Thannks for that, Thought it would be 3/8 but looking at them, could it be UNF?

I'll get some tube and some brass ends turner up and then braze them in as they have done here :)

They look like they were silver soldered not brazed... Bob

1340evo

May 23, 2021, 10:14:42 AM #28 Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 02:01:02 PM by 1340evo
you could be right, I wonder what temps you see down there and if just high temp normal solder would do the job?

Does anyone know the exact tube size ID and OD?

If I do use a UNF tap, it gives a bit more meat in the brass fitting so 1/4 tube would be possable just, but quite tight in the cases,
wonder if they used thin wall tube?

tdrglide

I would not trust regular tin solder. Silver solder is easy enough to use. Use correct flux for silver solder

kd

Straight solder has a reputation for cracking and separation with vibration. There's a name for it in engineering that includes a trip to the shade if I say it. lol A pic is worth a thousand words.   :turd:  That's why it's used in plumbing.  Minor vibration and close substantial area in the joint.  Silver solder has a longer grain and will take most vibration induced flex and wide temperature growth changes.
KD

1340evo

Looking on line. You can get silver solder paste. Melts at 720 c so that looks like the job. Comes in a syringe

Scotty

Yes silver solder just like they use for plumbing and you can get different melt point silver solder from most hardware stores. Done a few plumbing jobs around the house over the past 35 years here and flame and silver solder and never a problem especially joining copper to brass.

1340evo

Maybe not the plumbing stuff, more like jewellery making solder. Much higher melting point and better it would appear... your normal solder is just above 200c so dangerously close to cylinder temps

Scotty

Quote from: 1340evo on May 23, 2021, 11:47:08 PM
Maybe not the plumbing stuff, more like jewellery making solder. Much higher melting point and better it would appear... your normal solder is just above 200c so dangerously close to cylinder temps

No silver solder is silver solder it joins all precious metals and semi precious metals like gold, silver, brass and copper
Used in jewellery manufacturing and for high pressure plumbing.

Silver solders' tensile strength typically ranges from 40,000-70,000 pounds per square inch (psi). Adding silver to a copper brazing alloy will result in a lower melting point and higher fluidity. The fluidity helps the molten metal to penetrate the gap better, creating a smooth, sealed joint.

tdrglide

Don't use the 15% silver flat sticks either. Use high silver content like 56%. Available through welding supply stores or online. Silver brazing is the correct term for what you want here. Or buy some pig tails

1340evo

Quote from: tdrglide on May 24, 2021, 07:34:20 AM
Don't use the 15% silver flat sticks either. Use high silver content like 56%. Available through welding supply stores or online. Silver brazing is the correct term for what you want here. Or buy some pig tails

I would buy them, but all out of stock, and nothing in the UK either.
The solder I have is Silver 50%, Cadmium 19%, Copper 15%, Zinc 16%


Scotty

Quote from: tdrglide on May 24, 2021, 07:34:20 AM
Silver brazing is the correct term for what you want here.

Only in the USA in Australia it's called silver soldering and probably the same in the UK

1340evo

They didn't show on UK e-bay? wonder why??

But going on £100 landed so quite expensive. For £50 I'll be able to make 5 sets and sell the rest ;)

thanks for confirming the dims...

tdrglide

I would find a SSF-6 silver solder. Widely available. I have used muggy weld ssf-6 with great success joining dissimilar metals. Joint design is critical. Needs a slip fit, avoid butt joints. Make a few test pieces. How are your torch skills

That all said, I have used James base gaskets in the past without any pig tails or such and with out any leaks. Don't think they would ever blow out like paper

tdrglide

Quote from: Scotty on May 24, 2021, 12:12:57 PM
Quote from: tdrglide on May 24, 2021, 07:34:20 AM
Silver brazing is the correct term for what you want here.

Only in the USA in Australia it's called silver soldering and probably the same in the UK
Terms get interchanged in the US often and confuse people. Brazing temps are generally above 800F

1340evo

I'm sure it will be fine... what does it have to do.. nothing much.... should get some bits this week and will post results ;)

Scotty

Quote from: 1340evo on May 24, 2021, 08:36:52 AM
The solder I have is Silver 50%, Cadmium 19%, Copper 15%, Zinc 16%

That will work I use 45% silver and no issues

1340evo


Scotty

Quote from: 1340evo on May 24, 2021, 02:14:59 PM
joining brass and copper ?

Yes 45% silver content plus whatever other stuff was in it.

Also because it fit my budget which is always on the cheap side  :teeth:

Commonly known as "45% Silver Solder".
Contains 45% Silver content.
Self fluxing rods with low melting point.
Brazing temperature approx 618-760°C.
Good general, purpose alloy with the lowest melting brazing alloy available, suitable most metals except aluminium and magnesium.
Exceptional strength and a narrow melting range.
Ideal for production brazing and maintenance work because of its ease of application.

1340evo

No, what I was meaning is are the parts you are soldering made from Copper and Brass? or is the head on yours made of some kind of copper or other material??

Scotty

Quote from: 1340evo on May 25, 2021, 02:19:08 AM
No, what I was meaning is are the parts you are soldering made from Copper and Brass? or is the head on yours made of some kind of copper or other material??

Yes copper pipe and brass fittings for plumbing I did not make pigtails but the theory is the same and plumbing has to hold pressure a pigtail does not.
As long as you make it a slip fit and solder flows into the joint it will hold forever but I think you know that already.

1340evo

Yup, maybe over thinking this a lot.. its a bit of pipe to transfer oil... bits should be here this week so will see what I can knock up....

PoorUB

May 25, 2021, 05:35:57 AM #49 Last Edit: May 25, 2021, 05:41:26 AM by PoorUB
I worked as an HVAC tech for years and we would use 45% when silver brazing copper to brass. Plus you want the correct flux.

You can use white Harris Stay Silv flux, but this was preferred,
https://www.amazon.com/Harris-SSBF1-Stay-Brazing-Black/dp/B00EDMM4KU/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=45%25+silver+solder+black+flux&qid=1621946284&sr=8-5

Once you go black you never go back!
I am an adult?? When did that happen, and how do I make it stop?!