Inner primary leak on 2014 124 with 10000 miles?????

[guesscrazy]

The race definitely walked on the stock 6 speed in my 2007 RK. That was no big deal as the tranny was blown up anyway.

Now, my current setup is a Baker Grudgebox 6 sp. with the S&S race.



~John

I should have put on the S&S race when it was apart for the 124 upgrade in 2019.

[jmorton10]

John is that a 3guyz nut?

Yes, it is.

~John

[FSG]

 

[les]

The race definitely walked on the stock 6 speed in my 2007 RK. That was no big deal as the tranny was blown up anyway.

Now, my current setup is a Baker Grudgebox 6 sp. with the S&S race.



~John

I should have put on the S&S race when it was apart for the 124 upgrade in 2019.

Why?  The bike is a 2014 that has the shoulder on the main-shaft, right?

[RoadKingKohn]

If your bearing race has walked in it could have damaged your main shaft seal 12035B (number might be different on a 2014). That is what happened on my 2005 FLHRCI.

[smoserx1]

If your bearing race has walked in it could have damaged your main shaft seal 12035B (number might be different on a 2014). That is what happened on my 2005 FLHRCI.

Yes that is the mainshaft 5th gear seal, and it fooled me the first time I tried to fix what I thought was a primary leak.  It had failed on its own.  The other time was a race walking issue.  The race completely crushed the metal part of that seal almost flat and it took me what seemed like forever to get the ruined seal out.  That was after doing the dremmel tool/chisel procedure on the old race, and it finally convinced me to buy the S&S race with the taper.

[billbuilds]

The race definitely walked on the stock 6 speed in my 2007 RK. That was no big deal as the tranny was blown up anyway.

Now, my current setup is a Baker Grudgebox 6 sp. with the S&S race.



~John

I should have put on the S&S race when it was apart for the 124 upgrade in 2019.

Why?  The bike is a 2014 that has the shoulder on the main-shaft, right?

      Because, as Coyote pointed out, the stock HD races do not have the taper on the one end that the S&S races do. So despite the fact that the later mainshafts have the taper on them the stock races can still walk. 

[les]

The race definitely walked on the stock 6 speed in my 2007 RK. That was no big deal as the tranny was blown up anyway.

Now, my current setup is a Baker Grudgebox 6 sp. with the S&S race.



~John

I should have put on the S&S race when it was apart for the 124 upgrade in 2019.

Why?  The bike is a 2014 that has the shoulder on the main-shaft, right?

      Because, as Coyote pointed out, the stock HD races do not have the taper on the one end that the S&S races do. So despite the fact that the later mainshafts have the taper on them the stock races can still walk.

Coyote is talking about a 2007 transmission.  The stock race can't walk in over the shoulder of your 2014.

[billbuilds]

Yes, that's the main shaft I've always seen and every HD race can walk on it. If there's something HD came out with later, I've not seen it.   

     Here's what Coyote said. I don't have the 2014, that's the OP. I have a 2011.  Bill

[billbuilds]

     I did a little more looking into this and ended up calling S&S tech to get some clarification. There are two inner primary races available that are specifically designed to not walk on the mainshaft. The 56-5089 is for 91-06 5 & 6 speeds. It has a very subtle inner taper on one that prevents it from walking. You may well need calipers to discern which end is which. The other is 560-0241. It's for 08 and up six speeds and it has a noticable internal taper which acts as a stop when it contacts the mainshaft taper. There is no offering for the oddball 06 Dynas and 07 baggers. Thanks to FSG for the excellent photo highlighting how the 560-0241   
interfaces with the mainshaft.

[les]

So to be clear, guesscrazy's 2014 has the shoulder on the main-shaft (nothing to do with the race) just like my previous bike 2011 Road King which prohibits the OEM race from walking in, right?  And this matches what's written in the service manual and what we heard on the youtube video.

[billbuilds]

     According to Ronnie's both the 2011 and 2014 touring models use the same output shaft which is 35467-06C. This shaft has the taper. The 2011 SM is telling you to press the stock  race on to a certain point. This is just the point on the shaft where the taper meets the edge of the bearing race. There is nothing to keep the stock race from moving in/walking and Coyote has already replied to you with that fact.  This is why S&S came up with the race(s) that they did. If you have the stock race in there and you have a 124 then you really need to give some serious thought into putting the S&S race in there. Please do yourself a favor and give S&S a call @ 608-627-1497.  After all, I'm a nobody. Maybe one of their tech service guys can convince you.

[14Frisco]

Perhaps of interest -

TT329, 2007 Transmission Mainshaft and Race Running Change, describes when the mainshaft changed (5/30/2007) and what the changes were. TT329 can be found in the Tech Tips section.

The 35467-06A kit instructions referenced can be found at 6 SPEED TRANSMISSION MAINSHAFT KIT.

The 35467-06C kit instructions can be found at 6-SPEED TRANSMISSION MAINSHAFT KIT.

[FSG]

 

[les]

     According to Ronnie's both the 2011 and 2014 touring models use the same output shaft which is 35467-06C. This shaft has the taper. The 2011 SM is telling you to press the stock  race on to a certain point. This is just the point on the shaft where the taper meets the edge of the bearing race. There is nothing to keep the stock race from moving in/walking and Coyote has already replied to you with that fact.  This is why S&S came up with the race(s) that they did. If you have the stock race in there and you have a 124 then you really need to give some serious thought into putting the S&S race in there. Please do yourself a favor and give S&S a call @ 608-627-1497.  After all, I'm a nobody. Maybe one of their tech service guys can convince you.

Ok, I'll try again.  Look at post #18 that Ohio posted and the picture.  It shows a picture of the shoulder/step, which is 13 thou bigger in diameter.  This is the what I'm talking about.  This is what the SM says to press the race up to, which stops the race from being pressed on any further and also prevents the race from walking in.

I've used a lot of S&S races.  I've even have a claw wrench to torque them down to the proper torque.  But I discovered on my 2011 124" I didn't need the S&S race because the OEM race stops dead on that shoulder when I'm pressing it on.  If I count right, there's been about a half a dozen pieces of material evidence demonstrating the existence of the main-shaft shoulder.  Even a youtube of a dude who's pretty knowledgeable about the bikes we ride and work on.

[billbuilds]

    Yes I've seen Kevin Baxter's video several times. It would have been nice if he would have been more specific as to when HD made the change to the mainshafts and added the step. Coyote stated that his 2011 six speed did not have a step. C-Cat stated the same about his 2011. Ohio HD asks "If there were a step on the six speed to stop the race. Why do they walk inward anyway?"  Yet you state that your 2011 has a step. I checked out the Tech Tip section and do not see mention of when this step was added. I am wondering if my 2011 has a step and not wanting to find out the hard way. I have to say that this is one of the most confusing subjects I've run into on this site. I don't mean to butt heads with you, Les. Just trying to wrap my head around this one.

[FSG]

I've posted many times in the past about mainshaft changes ...  the step ..... and the S&S races

heres some

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,86244.msg975778.html#msg975778

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,30244.msg306607.html#msg306607

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,25635.msg261636.html#msg261636

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,72053.msg785500.html#msg785500

[les]

    Yes I've seen Kevin Baxter's video several times. It would have been nice if he would have been more specific as to when HD made the change to the mainshafts and added the step. Coyote stated that his 2011 six speed did not have a step. C-Cat stated the same about his 2011. Ohio HD asks "If there were a step on the six speed to stop the race. Why do they walk inward anyway?"  Yet you state that your 2011 has a step. I checked out the Tech Tip section and do not see mention of when this step was added. I am wondering if my 2011 has a step and not wanting to find out the hard way. I have to say that this is one of the most confusing subjects I've run into on this site. I don't mean to butt heads with you, Les. Just trying to wrap my head around this one.

I understand and not taking it as butting heads.  The problem with the race walking is an important one to me too.

[billbuilds]

     I should really clarify something I said about TT329. It states that the running change in mainshaft diameter and bearing race ID was made after 5/30/2007.  Is also talks about the addition of a machined step on the mainshaft. So I'm wondering why two people posted that their 2011 mainshaft did not have a step and that their bearing race walked in. This is the part of this discussion that has confused me the most. I am obviously missing something so please feel free to whack me up the side of the head and straighten me out.  I hate to rip mine apart if I don't have to yet in speaking with S&S tech yesterday he said not to wait to long to remove the stock race and install one of theirs. And my apology to the OP for hijacking your thread. Bill

[FSG]

As Ron said, pretty common and as MAX said crappy shaft. 

Zoot didn't you do a chain conversion to an 06 or 07 Dyna?  The MoCo has a Mainshaft Upgrade Kit for the early 6 speeds which contains the latest mainshaft with the step to prevent the IPB Race from walking.

FSG , would you happen to have the part # for that mainshaft upgrade kit ?

Kit Number   35467-06B

http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Media/downloads/Service/isheets/-J04678.pdf

[FSG]

here's a pic of the mainshaft in Kit 35467-06B

refer destructions -j04678

[FSG]

being that it's a '10 model it should have the mainshaft with the step to prevent the IPB Race walking, are you able to measure the step?

[attach=0,msg1052907]

being that it's a '10 model it should have the mainshaft with the step to prevent the IPB Race walking, are you able to measure the step?

It has the step, 0.977 then steps to 0.985

[billbuilds]

    FSG,  I see now   and I really appreciate your time. Thanks for your patience with me.  Bill

[les]

    FSG,  I see now   and I really appreciate your time. Thanks for your patience with me.  Bill

You're welcome.

[billbuilds]

     Sorry Les, should ave included you too in the thanks. Much aappreciated.