Sumping revisited

[vetteandharley]

 Purchased a 2019 Road Glide Special that had S and S 128" cylinders and pistons, S and S lifters,  a Woods 222, de-catted head pipe with Rhinehart Racing mufflers. Have ridden it a couple thousand miles with no issues until last Saturday. I was running late and ran it pretty hard, at one point up to 115.  After slowing down I noticed it was way down on power.  Returned home and a couple hours later took off on it again and it ran fine.  Real sure it had sumped.  Read through several long threads, wondering if there has been a definitive solution to this problem. I see Durwood mentioned running a quart low and couldn't make any problem children sump after that.  This bike has the Screamin' Eagle gen 3 oil pump installed, if there a later edition?  Thanks for your time.

[hrdtail78]

Only way to really tell.  Get to the low power stage again and pull CPS.  If oil pours out the hole.  You are sumping.

[ziggy24]

Also, if you happen to have a tuner like the power vision that you can  monitor engine temp spikes with, would be helpful to you. Usually,rapidly climbing ,abnormally high engine temps and loss of power would be symptoms of sumping.

[vetteandharley]

 Oh I'm sure it was sumping,  wondering if a definitive cure has been found.  Next time it happens I will pull the CPS and check it.   thanks

[Sunny Jim]

Only way to really tell.  Get to the low power stage again and pull CPS.  If oil pours out the hole.  You are sumping.

Switch on MAP on your screen( gauges) and
You will see it increase as the crank loads up.
Also very
Noticeable if you have cruise control engaged.

[BigT]

There isn't a Screamin Eagle oil pump for the M8 motors. The latest oil pump in the 2020 and newer models fixed my sumping issue.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Even S&S will tell that their 2nd Gen pump with the seal(which is almost impossible to source)will only "help".
Just went thru this once again on a 124" when tuning.

[joepenoso]

So you are saying new M8's still sump and nobody knows why?

Thanks
joepenoso

[BigT]

So you are saying new M8's still sump and nobody knows why?

Thanks
joepenoso

I haven't heard of a bike that sumped with the latest HD oil pump that was installed correctly.

[vetteandharley]

  Thanks for all the response's, will run it awhile and try to duplicate the problem.  If it reoccurs I'll move to the lastest pump and seal.

[ziggy24]

What???

[96349]

The "Fix" for the M8 sumping problem finally came with the latest oil pump for the 2020 models. Among other changes it went to an 8 lobe georotor instead of a 10 lobe. 2017, 2018, 2019 and some very early 2020 models which were manufactured in 2019 had oil pumps which enabled sumping. The last 2020 version was the cure.

[sneakypete]

I've got a 2020 and I'm curious as to when it came off the assembly line.
I think that info can be gathered from the VIN number, does anyone know how to read it ?  It would be nice to know which oil pump I've got.

[roaddog]

Left side downtube on front of bike there is a sticker with date of manufacture on it.

[sneakypete]

Thanks Dog, I'm on it..

[sneakypete]

Well it turns out my RK was built in 2-20 so it should have the latest oil pump version.  I've got over 8K on the clock with no issues of any kind
so far, maybe this one was built on a Wednesday..

[kd]

One thing to consider is how long it took the engine plant to use up the stock of previous pumps before the revision came on-line.  For example, in 2011 the B lifters lasted the first few months before the not so great C version started being introduced.

[ziggy24]

As cheap as Harley may be sometimes, I doubt they would gamble on having more sumping engines to repair for the cost of a pump knowing ,or probably know they have cure. But, I did stay at a Holiday Inn express!

[Don D]

Perhaps there is a restriction on the return side?

[Dan89flstc]

2019 and some very early 2020 models which were manufactured in 2019 had oil pumps which enabled sumping.

The latest oil pump came out during production of the 2019 model year bikes.

No 2020 bikes got the old pump...

[ziggy24]

2019 and some very early 2020 models which were manufactured in 2019 had oil pumps which enabled sumping.

The latest oil pump came out during production of the 2019 model year bikes.

No 2020 bikes got the old pump...

Or the installer of the current pump may have pinched the O-ring putting it together.

[Ccdan]

I check to sump on every M8 I service and every engine build we do. All bikes with new style pumps S&S or stock have consistently 4OZ or less in the sump checked at drain plug not CKP.