03 ultra starter clicking issues

[chas]

Hi All- I'm just wrapping up my winter upgrade work on my ultra, and I replaced my starter with a new one! I'm still just getting a fast clicking and lights fast dimming effect! Battery is a year old and been on a tender all winter! Lights are bright but dim and pulse when starter button pushed! Any thoughts? I had the clicking noise with the previous re- built starter but it wasnt real fast like the new starter. I cleaned the contacts both positive and negative a year ago on the cables going to starter. Maybe I should revisit them? Much appreciated advice- Chas

[sprocket99]

My first thought is to load test the battery. At least you can eliminate it as a problem.

[Hossamania]

I agree that the battery needs to be eliminated as the problem first. Try jumping it, but that doesn't always work if the battery is too defective or too far gone.
What is the voltage reading with a meter while standing, and while trying to start?
Also, there have been issues with battery cables corroding under the sheathing, usually the positive cable, at the batt terminals.

[mkd]

battery, then all connections on positive and negative cables. if that doesn't do it quite possibly starter is too tight . maybe loosen it up a little on the bolts and see if it makes a difference.

[chas]

I did loosen the starter bolts and no difference! So I'm thinking I will replace both cables and clean all connections

[koko3052]

I did loosen the starter bolts and no difference! So I'm thinking I will replace both cables and clean all connections

Once you do all that & have the same issue you will say "Damn, why didn't I load test the battery FIRST?"

[Hossamania]

I did loosen the starter bolts and no difference! So I'm thinking I will replace both cables and clean all connections

Once you do all that & have the same issue you will say "Damn, why didn't I load test the battery FIRST?"

Start with suspecting the battery, it's the easiest and most common place to start.
Jump it.

[dogger]

Tender shmender, I'll guess and say that battery is deader than a proverbial door nail. Unless there is a bad connection somewhere.

[smoserx1]

Tried to PM you about this but your box is full.  I was going to suggest as others have a load test.  Auto parts stores do it for you.  The battery is definitely what I would suspect with those symptoms.

[chas]

ok thanks Steve! will load test battery

[chas]

I ended up getting a new starter, still have the loud quick clicking,I swapped out the battery cables and cables to the starter. Still have the loud quick clicking! Bought a new battery, still have the loud clicking, loosened the starter bolts!. Seems the new battery got real hot after trying to start and everything went dead!!! I checked main fuse and that was not blown! I'm out of things to try and very frustrated! Electrical is not my thing, but I'm going to learn from this! I will ride this summer. Any thoughts?

[Fugawee]

I have an 03' Ultra also.  A few years back I pinched a wire it the R/Side Control after making a few adjustments, and replacing throttle cables.  Got the "click-click-click".  The start button wire was grounded against the H-Bar, and the control housing.  Went back to the Controls and saw where I screwed up.  So, have You done anything to the Controls, or H/Bars?
There are many "threads" here about the starter clicking.  If You use the search box at the top, and type in "starter clicks", or "starter issues"...or, just about anything pertaining to "starter"; You may find a solution to Your problem on one of them, or something that You may have overlooked.

[Hossamania]

If your battery got hot, there is likely a dead short somewhere. As Fugawee mentioned, any other work done?

[chas]

I did replace the handlebar bushings earlier in the winter, so maybe something happened then when I removed them off the post to get to the bushings! Should I take apart the switch housing and see if there is a wire grounding to the handle bars? Will the battery be ok from getting hot?

[smoserx1]

Take the battery out.  Using a good multi-tester measure the resistance between the positive terminal on the cable and the frame.  The resistance should be very high...in the many meg-ohm range to infinity.  Anything else means either a short or a whopping parasitic draw and that could make your battery hot and also rob the starter of electrical power.  Next do the same thing except with the negative cable.  The result should be the opposite...the reading should be just a very few ohms.  Anything higher indicates a bad ground.  And quit buying new stuff till you have properly diagnosed what you have.

[Fugawee]

I don't think it would hurt to check the switch housings.  You say that the battery, and starter have been replaced; and still the same problem.  I would back track to what may have done to the Bike as far as repairs, maintenance, etc.  Are You 100% certain that the battery is hooked up correctly?  Was the new battery fully charged prior to installation?  Did You replace the R/L controls and/or the switch housings with new stuff?  You mention that the lights are dim...does the horn work?  Did the Bike start normally prior to doing Your winter up-grades?  If it did...I would most definitely be checking all of what may have been touched.  The common "ground", that is under the seat at the front You may want to check for tightness, and ensuring that it is a good ground.  Out of curiosity...how many miles are on the Bike?

[truck]

Is the motor locked up? How about the transmission, is it in neutral? Will the motor turn over with the clutch disengaged? 
I know, stupid questions.

[Coyote]

Don't waste your time on switch housings. There's nothing you could have done there to load the battery down where it's getting hot. Put a meter directly on the battery posts. See what the voltage does when you hit the starter.

Your issue seems to be only when you hit the starter button, correct? If so, all the other comments are just static and won't get you anywhere.

If you pull the starter out and try does it spin OK when you hit the start?  If so, can you turn the motor over using the rear wheel?

[chas]

I took an ohms reading on the positive battery cable and it was high! Did the same with the negative and it read zero, so safe to say everything is good there! I guess you can say there is no short or huge parasitic draw. Coyote is right about the switch housings, I never touched them really so I wouldnt waste my time in there. The new battery was fully charged when I tried to start it last, the lights were bright they dimmed when I pushed the button, and I got that loud quick clicking sound. The horn will not work! The ground cables, positive cable were all replaced all ground contacts sanded to bare metal! When I was replacing cams, cam plate, lifters, pushrods, oil pump I was able to turn motor over in 5th gear to get push rods on tdc. The other starter I rebuilt I was able to get it to spin on the bench out of the bike. I now have a new one in place of it. Smoserx1 is right not to buy new parts until you know what you are dealing with, and I usually go that route as a common sense thing. This has me so stumped and people are saying its the battery, check the battery! I did and it wasn,t that far off and my gut says its not the battery, but I buy another one anyway to try and eliminate the possibilites. The bike has 61k on it now, I have owned it for 3 years and plan on having it until I'm too old to ride it! I'm 68 now and if I cant deal with the weight and get too spacey to ride it, I will probably seek out a side car for it!

[xlfan]

You got a high ohms reading on the positive battery cable?

[smoserx1]

Here is one more thing you can try.  Make sure the bike is in neutral.  Remove the solenoid cover, and use a wooden dowel or other insulated material (never metal) and manually push the solenoid plunger all the way in.  See if the starter cranks the bike doing it like that.  This will  work regardless of the state of the ignition switch.  If it won't work with the ign. switch on and the lights burning, try it with the switch off and see if it will crank without the lights and ignition drawing current.  This is no different than a solenoid button many of us have.

[chas]

So you know, I have one of those chrome buttons on the side of the solenoid to bypass handlebar switch. When I tried to start the bike from the handlebar, and got nothing but the click, I tried the button and thats when everything went dead!

[calif phil]

I would start with new battery cables. The aftermarket cables are superior to the stock cables and not expensive. 

[smoserx1]

So you know, I have one of those chrome buttons on the side of the solenoid to bypass handlebar switch. When I tried to start the bike from the handlebar, and got nothing but the click, I tried the button and thats when everything went dead!

Well that tells us something right there.  With a compromised battery (or cables) you can have enough energy to operate the solenoid but not the actual starter motor.  The magnetic field of the solenoid will pull the plunger in connecting the starter motor to the battery but the enormous current the motor tries to draw kills whatever voltage is left and the magnetic field of the solenoid collapses and the spring returns the plunger.  This allows the battery to temporarily recuperate enough to reestablish the magnetic field and the process repeats...over and over, thus the repeated clicking.  However with you pushing that button in the plunger does not return (the magnetic field is irreverent in this case) and everything dies because the voltage goes to practically nothing due to the heavy current draw of the starter motor.  Anyway do the voltage test Coyote suggested and try it 2 different ways, one with the tester leads on the cable terminals and again with the leads on just the battery terminals but NOT allowing the leads to contact the cable connectors.  That can sometimes differentiate between a bad battery and bad cables, but either way all signs are still pointing to inadequate power getting to that starter from some means.  And again, good luck!

[chas]

Ok thanks Steve, I'll be back in the garage tomorrow night when the heat has settled down! Will let you know what happens

[Appowner]

When left overnight is there any appreciable drain on the battery?  From what you've said I'm assuming not but...............
You can test it by leaving it off the tender for a night and then seeing how long it takes the tender to peak it back up in the morning.

The horn not working strikes me as a clue.  But just where that might lead to I'm not sure.  Could be unrelated but I think it suggests a chaffed or pinched wire someplace.  You said you replaced the handlebar bushings.  During that could you have stressed the wires at all?  Did you hang the bars by the wires?  18 year old wires and connections sometimes don't like to be messed with.  And we all know the MOCO never puts any extra wire in their bikes.  And sometimes not enough.

During the winter upgrades did you remove the tank?  Even to just raise it a little to gain access under it?  Most of my electrical issues over the years have come from doing that very thing.  Being an Ultra how about the fairing?  Time to go back and consider what wires may have been disturbed during the upgrades.

My thoughts are you might need to go back over all the wiring you may have disturbed and examine it closely.  A good bright flashlight and maybe even one of those magnifier visor thingies (if your 60 something eyes are like mine).  Look for signs of wear, rubbing, shining spots of exposed wire where there shouldn't be any, etc.  Yes it's a Royal pain!  But such are electrical problems.

[Hossamania]

Was the ground wire re-installed on the riser bolt when replacing the bushing?
Wires breaking near the steering head in the main loom is common due to flexing back and forth.
Neither of these may have anything to do with the non start issue, but it may with the horn issue, and possibly affect the non-start.
Do you have a meter to take some voltage readings?

[Hossamania]

After the cam upgrade, can you spin the motor over with the rear wheel, in 5th gear, plugs out? I know you said you spun it to adjust pushrods, has it been spun after all the work done and lifters bled down?
Have you tried the starter with the plugs out (ground the plug wires to avoid damaging the coil)?
Also, the clicking on the previous starter leads one to think that this problem was present before the motor work was done, but has now been exacerbated by something done during the upgrade.

[Sycho01]

I know this is a long shot but I once had difficulty with a car starter that was similar. I found that the positive cable that looked fine on the outside was actually quite corroded under the insultation.
I took a test light and probed the positive connection at the starter terminal at the wire to terminal connection and there was no voltage. I then started piercing the insulation on the positive cable going away from the starter and found that I had voltage about 6 inches away from the starter.
Long story short I replaced the positive cable.

[Hossamania]

OP says cables have been replaced.

[kd]

After thinking about this a bit, it's beginning to sound like the pull in winding on the starter solenoid circuit is working and it moves the bendix to engage. The hold in function is not and it releases until the pull in winding grabs it and sends it back only to release again but be reengaged with the pull in winding and sent back (as long as the starter button is depressed).  The starter spins when zapped on the bench and the bendix is engaging but just not being held there. 

[Sycho01]

Solenoid contacts heating up and opening then pulling the clutch back?

[Tacocaster]

Couple of thoughts for you to chew-on, Chas:

1. You replaced your starter - "old starter was clicking but new one is fast clicking". Is it possible you "moved" the contact inside the solenoid when tightening the Batt Pos Cable to the starter? When installing and tightening this cable you should keep a thin box end wrench on the "flats" of the terminal so as not to turn it as you tighten the "keeper" nut down on top of the Batt Pos Cable. Disconnect your Batt NEG before working around this connection!

2. When you pushed-in the solenoid "button", did it recoil when you let it go or stay in? If it stayed in (contacts engaged) it will draw-down the battery as this winding (pull-in circuit) normally releases when the motor begins to spin-up and the secondary (hold-in) circuit takes over.

3. You have a Batt Neg cable installed to the Starter (good for you). Assuming it's terminated to a starter mounting bolt, is that cable installed between the starter mounting ear (boss) and the bolt washer/shoulder or between the starter mounting ear (boss) and the Inner Primary? Don't dismiss me too fast. I've seen it done and the problem reported was "won't start".

The guys have given you some great ideas to look into - especially the push-rod mis-adjustment/rear wheel spin check. That could certainly cause your starter to "bottom-out" (starter drive fast spin or even stall) versus the old slow click (likely low voltage) you had previously.

Good Luck, Chas and don't give up!

[truck]

Do we know yet if the bike motor is seized or locked up somehow?

[kd]

He hasn't said yet however I expect if the rest of the system is working properly, on a locked engine The starter should stall but not disengage.  It may if it starts to roll over though.

[chas]

I pulled the plugs and spun rear wheel in 5th gear and engine is free no problems there. I took a horseshoe wire and touched the small wire on starter to the positive terminal and still have the clicking and sparks! Anymore thoughts?

[smoserx1]

I think at this point we are throwing in the kitchen sink.  The issue KD mentioned about a bad hold in coil of the solenoid is plausible but you have gone through 2 starters.  Every starter I have ever seen was a  complete assembly with a new solenoid and drive mechanism attached and the chance of having 2 fail like that are next to nothing.  Is it possible you could have assembled your jackshaft wrong?  Here is a way to test that and it is tedious.  The outer primary would have to come off but here goes anyway.  Disconnect the battery and remove the primary cover.  Then connect just the battery negative cable but not the positive.  If you don't already have one, make up a section of wire a few feet long with a female spade connector on one end and bare wire on the other end.  Remove the green wire from the solenoid and attach the spade connector of the wire you made up.  Now standing on the left side of the bike so you can see the starter pinion gear, touch the bare end of the wire to the positive terminal of the battery.  This should energize the solenoid but the bike will not try to start since the positive battery cable is disconnected.  You should be able to see the pinion gear move outward  and engage with the ring gear on the clutch basket...and it should stay there as long as that wire is attached to the + terminal of the battery.  If this test passes I don't know what else to tell you except take the battery and the starter both to a shop and have them tested properly.  Something sure isn't right.

[Tacocaster]

Good thought smoserx1! If the jackshaft components are installed wrong......

And we all agree - something ain't right. We're missing some pertinent information (history) Chas that's needed, there's bad parts upon bad parts involved or there's something amiss upstream (electrically speaking) as this should not be a difficult issue to find.

You've loosened the starter mounting bolts to ensure its not binding, you've ensured the engine is free-spinning, (good to hear!), you've manipulated the solenoid by pushing it in (energized the pull-in coil) and even replaced the starter, all with no success.

Appowner might have hit on something too.
If you don't want to bench test the starter, take the Mega fuse lead off the stater lug but re-install the battery positive back on the starter lug (don't over tighten). Then pull the green lead off the starter's solenoid. These two steps should electrically-speaking, isolate the starter from the rest of the bike's starting circuit (think bench test). Now manually - and with conviction - push-in and hold the solenoid's plunger and see what happens. (I'm thinking it might be something upstream drawing the battery power down and giving the dreaded "solenoid fast spinning click-click-click"). I may be completely out of left field but not hard to try at least and the result might trigger someone to realize/recognize something we've overlooked.

Many have bench tested starters before. It's not hard but you have to ensure they're secured or they'll buck on ya!

[HogMike]

I may have missed it but, did you unplug the green wire to the solenoid and take a jumper wire from the + terminal on the battery and touch it to the spade terminal on the solenoid housing?

That will isolate all the starter wiring on the bike and you'll see if it's a mechanical issue with the starter.

[Dan89flstc]

If you don't want to bench test the starter, take the Mega fuse lead off the stater lug but re-install the battery positive back on the starter lug (don't over tighten). Then pull the green lead off the starter's solenoid. These two steps should electrically-speaking, isolate the starter from the rest of the bike's starting circuit

If the positive cable is connected to the starter, it is not isolated, no matter if the main fuse is removed.

OP: Read the voltage at the battery posts (not cable terminals) with ignition switch on.

Press start button, read voltage at battery posts.

What are your readings?

[HogMike]

If you don't want to bench test the starter, take the Mega fuse lead off the stater lug but re-install the battery positive back on the starter lug (don't over tighten). Then pull the green lead off the starter's solenoid. These two steps should electrically-speaking, isolate the starter from the rest of the bike's starting circuit

If the positive cable is connected to the starter, it is not isolated, no matter if the main fuse is removed.

OP: Read the voltage at the battery posts (not cable terminals) with ignition switch on.

Press start button, read voltage at battery posts.

What are your readings?

Agree. Check battery posts. Check + to ground anywhere else. What voltage?
Check solenoid trigger wire to ground when starter button engaged.
How much drop vs voltage at battery posts? You should have 12.7v or so at battery, if it drops to say 10v at green trigger wire that could cause an issue.

Electrical problems are the worst!