T-man cam selection for S&S 100" big bore

[jannejk]

I have purchased S&S 100" big bore kit for '06 FXDBI. To look the specs more careful now I notice that the CR is quite high, 10.5:1. My main goal is to get strong torque in mid range and hope not completely destroy the low end torque. Less CR would be okay but now it is what it is I have TC96 heads which I am going to send a professional for porting. Before that I should choose a cam for my bike.

Setup would be:

- S&S Big Bore 100" with 10.5:1 CR
- TC96 stock heads which will be ported by professional
- V&H Pro Pipe
- Power Vision or Technoresearch for ECM
- Arlen Ness Big Sucker
- Tune in Dyno after build

I am wondering between T-man 555TQ or 580PS. Just wondering is 580PS too aggressive for this build and purpose? I guess 580 is requiring new valve spring also?

[Armin]

If you know the stroke of your build I suggest that you use the BigBoyz compression calculator:

http://www.bigboyzcycles.com/TwinCamComp.htm

and play with the parameters to evaluate which cam to use. I would strive for a cold cranking compression of 195 to 200 to avoid the danger of pinging. With your planned headwork it might be wise to select valve springs that permit you to use cams with a lift of up to 0.65 to be safe for a future cam change. I have used the T-man TR625G which gave me a very good wide torque band, but my ccp was too high so I switched to Wood TW9GB, a very good but noisy cam due to their steep lobes. In search for a solution I grabbed a used Crane HTC 296GD from a forum member here and this is the ideal cam for my configuration in my 98 CI TC enginge.

Armin.

[kd]

Welcome to the forum jannejk.  You can also shop through the dyno section here for comparisons.  You can use the search feature or simply page through.  If you read past the graphs you will see some comments on how it performs on the road that may be helpful to you.

[Don D]

What is the octane of fuel in your country?

[Finn]

What is the octane of fuel in your country?

Typically:
- 95 E10 (RON)
- 98 E5 (RON)
- Shell V-Power, allegedly a tad above 98 oct.

My impression is that most people (as I do) use 98 octane in their bikes.

[jannejk]

Yes I am using this our 98 E5 (RON) on my bike always. Stroke is stock TC88. So this is basically 4x4 cubic engine . I will search those dyno charts and trying to find close to this build. Also plan is to install Jims manual compression release valves to help in start up.

[Armin]

For clarification:

EU ratings are 95/98, which are equivalent to US ratings of 91/93

EU 95 octane = US 91 octane and EU 98 octane = US 93 octane

Armin.

[Don D]

Using the r+m/2 method to convert 98 is the same as US 94 octane. Good fuel. After valve work the chambers could be at least +1cc from theoretical,  keep in mind. Stock springs are well suited to either cam at those lifts with 7mm valves. The 580 will work better. Me personally i would look for a cam with about 5 more degrees duration and about a 42 intake close, 35-40 overlap. At least 104 lsa
Eu use RON method
USA is RON+MON/2
Short answer they have great fuel
Mackie TC575L is an example

[Ohio HD]

I have purchased S&S 100" big bore kit for '06 FXDBI. To look the specs more careful now I notice that the CR is quite high, 10.5:1. My main goal is to get strong torque in mid range and hope not completely destroy the low end torque. Less CR would be okay but now it is what it is I have TC96 heads which I am going to send a professional for porting. Before that I should choose a cam for my bike.

Setup would be:

- S&S Big Bore 100" with 10.5:1 CR
- TC96 stock heads which will be ported by professional
- V&H Pro Pipe
- Power Vision or Technoresearch for ECM
- Arlen Ness Big Sucker
- Tune in Dyno after build

I am wondering between T-man 555TQ or 580PS. Just wondering is 580PS too aggressive for this build and purpose? I guess 580 is requiring new valve spring also?

To make things easy, I would use the S&S 570 with easy starts. You won't need compression releases. And the cams are a good choice for a broad torque range. Several examples in the Dyno section.

[Don D]

I agree.

[838]

Guy I ride with has an 05 ultra classic. He stripped it down to a basic bagger, bored to 98" with some head work, Runs it at 10.5:1 with a tman590ps2. He rides in Death Valley (wot rider) with a canned map on a thundermax ecm 😳... Not suggesting his tuning route (at all), but the bike doesn't run hot or detonate (even in this state of tune) and has gobs of power (no dyno numbers obviously). Sounds bad ass too... if your in to that sort of thing.

[RTMike]

The Tman 625 is a good choice for your build,will need valve springs also.the problem is that some of the cam suppliers do not make cams for 99-06 machines.

[FXDBI]

The Tman 625 is a good choice for your build,will need valve springs also.the problem is that some of the cam suppliers do not make cams for 99-06 machines.

2006 Dyna is the same has the 2007 up TC's only it was a 88ci,  Bob

[jannejk]

Thanks you for all of your replies. I think after looking dyno runs the choice will be T-Man 590ps2 with manual compression release valves or s&s easy start 570. Good head work with proper tuning in dyno should give nice end result. I will also update new lifters. Does these cams require adjustable pushrods? How much the stock clutch can handle torque? And what is the proper next step if clutch needs upgrade?

[Armin]

Jannejk, most probably you must use adjustable pushrods, depending if the radii of base circles of the cams are differing from those of the original cams. Also with the upcoming headwork your heads will be milled down a bit to achieve equally sized combustion chambers. Beyond that adjustables facilitate future works eliminating the removal of the gas tank and rocker compartments in case you decide to swap cams.
Do you need a new clutch pack? I think it largely depends on your driving habits. I altered my engine from 88 to 95 then 98 and I never babied the engine troughout the 135.000 km and still use the original clutch.
If your budget permits get yourself the Powervision wit AT Pro, you won't regret.

Armin.

[FXDBI]

I also have a 2006 , clutch with SE spring and full plate kit is holding fine with a 110 @ 10.7/1 with 585 cams and a set of Headquarters heads and a FM E-Pipe. I put a no miles take out crankshaft and 110 SE jugs and pistons stock TB and injectors so far.   Bob

I should add the fact I am only 150lbs...Bob

[Deye76]

.570 @ 10.5, hoping for a really good tune. If it is, KA

[jannejk]

The gasoline quality is always good here in Finland so the high CR is not a problem in that sense. I had conversation earlier with guy who most probably do my head work about easy start 585 cams. He mentioned two issues. There in low end these cams tend to make a bump down. And the other issue is bikes with fuel injection have had some starting issues due low compression in during starting in some setup. Have you seen this kind of behaviour with easy starts?

[Don D]

You won't have any issue starting with 10.5 static even at very high elevation. The 570 is a little bit hot rod down low, below 2,200, but a good tune can smooth things out.  585 cams are definitely a little rough off idle. Both will have good torque with your pipe choice assuming the heads conform. How you ride and where you shift will be important toward making the choice. This is not a brand name thing but as Ohio HD pointed out the easy starts does help influence the decision. Depending on your horsepower expectations you may be knocking on the door of bigger injectors and a throttle body to realize the build potential. If you never are near redline it is all a non-issue and the smaller cam makes the best sense.

[jannejk]

These easy start issues was so that ecm did not give spark or inject fuel because somehow ecm noticed that compression is too low. But I trust you guys you have lots of experience of these. And better to have it in cams than separate compression release valves.

I am choosing the easy start 570 for my build now. In high level what kind of head work will give good result for this setup? I have TC96 heads acquired already. Are stock valve sizes ok and head porting is good to have also?

Thanks you very much all of your answers so far.

[rigidthumper]

Another option would be to have the ACR (auto compression release) holes machined into the heads while at the porters, install the wiring harness(70623-06), and activate them in the software (either at the dealer or with the chosen tuner).  That would open up cam options.

[C-Cat]

Running 590 pS2 cams 194 ccp like them s lot. I don't even have the electronic releases in use.

[sharkoilfield]

I've run manual CR's and S&S E-Z starts; E-Z starts are the ONLY way I'll be going from here on; ALWAYS an "E-Z" start EVERY time you push the button. AND; S&S has been around HD's since the middle of last century...no questions there...
As far as pushrods, I've only ever used perfect fit's. In all my years of riding I've only seen adjustable pushrods let go on a run twice. Neither time was my motor...

[Hillside Motorcycle]

At the compression mentioned, a Wood 408-6, or a T-Man 660-PS-2, with be a VERY strong engine, with the correct cylinder head work.

[jannejk]

Thank you all for the good replies. So now my bike is in the shop. I let the professional to build whole package. This is the setup:

- Crank will be balanced, pro plugged and welded
- S&S Big Bore 100" with 10.5:1 CR
- TC96 stock heads, porting work, bigger intake and exhaust valves and valve springs
- S&S Easy Start 585 cams
- S&S 52mm throttlebody + S&S air cleaner
- S&S lifters and adjustable pushrods
- V&H Pro Pipe with competition baffle
- Power vision + dyno

Hope there is some difference to a stock 88

[Hossamania]

I think you will notice a little better response than the 88" motor....     

[RTMike]

Good choice ,have fun

[Deye76]

I ran a S&S .600 cam in a 4X4 100" Evo in a heavy bagger. very pleased. The .585 in a lighter bike like your Dyna will have plenty of low TQ, and a rocket up top.

[C-Cat]

 : Awesome build. You could even lean on the compression a bit more. That's going to be a blast in your Dyna

[FXDBI]

Thank you all for the good replies. So now my bike is in the shop. I let the professional to build whole package. This is the setup:

- Crank will be balanced, pro plugged and welded
- S&S Big Bore 100" with 10.5:1 CR
- TC96 stock heads, porting work, bigger intake and exhaust valves and valve springs
- S&S Easy Start 585 cams
- S&S 52mm throttlebody + S&S air cleaner
- S&S lifters and adjustable pushrods
- V&H Pro Pipe with competition baffle
- Power vision + dyno

Hope there is some difference to a stock 88

Like already mentioned a little more squeeze will wake up the bottom end. Play with the big boyz calculator the 585's are very happy @ 195ccp.  Bob

[Hillside Motorcycle]

That .585 can very easily leave a LOT of low-end power, missing from the mix.
Not being a wise guy, but we really never reach for that cam.
Just our choice not to.

[jannejk]

What would be your cam selection for this setup?

[838]

What would be your cam selection for this setup?

Rivas Rocket 584 with ez starts advanced 4*.  Or straight up at 10.7:1.

[harpwrench]

I'd suggest sticking with the plan your builder laid out for you, if he's done this before. Here's a great example on a dyna http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,113883.0.html

[Don D]

Agree, this one is 585 cams my heads and 110"
10.4:1

[jannejk]

I'd suggest sticking with the plan your builder laid out for you, if he's done this before. Here's a great example on a dyna http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,113883.0.html

Yes I am sticking with the current plan

[jannejk]

Oilpump was a not a best condition anymore so we replace that too with: Screamin' Eagle Billet Cam Support Plate with High Volume Oil Pump
From original TC88 I have left engine block and flywheel

[kd]

Did you check mthe pinion shaft runout.  Many poor oil pump conditions are the result of excess runout and it never gets better on it's own.

[jannejk]

Runout was 0.075mm = 0.0029in. Flywheel will be balanced, pro plugged and welded also.