Ultima switch setting and curves

[1340evo]

So I got the Ultima unit in and it's fired up no problem. Its raining like mad outside so can't take it for a run just yet so looking at the settings and curves.

I'm running the VOES so I have all switches turned off.. this gives
switch 1    Off   use VOES
switch 2,3 Off   Curve 1
switch 4,5 Off   5500 rpm
switch 6    Off   Dual fire

Kind of feal cheated as everythings off 

So I've static times so turning clockwise get it to where the red light goes off with Cyl1 at TDC on the compression stroke... Tick

Start it up and it runs and the green light is on all the time.. give it a blip, green light stays on.... give it a bigger blip, I can see the green light goes out.. so guess thats all good.

Question is with the std set up, whats max advance and by what RPM?

as you see here, curve 1 is about 34 deg by 2500 rpm... how does that look against the STD HD modules?... any ideas?

[Burnout]

Flipping switches is easy try the different settings to see what they do for your install.

Ideally you should set it with a light.

[1340evo]

Looking at the curves, No 1 is the closest for BT Evo's... No2 only goes to 32 deg.. No3's about 29 deg and No4 about 26 deg.
Thought BT's were best at 35 deg?
I know you can off-set the curve so you end up at a give advance, but what does this do to it lower down?

Does anyone run a off-set curve??

[Hossamania]

I have a DTT, ran thru most of the curves and initial timing settings on my TC. Stock is 5/5. Ended up at 1/2, way low on the timing and advance curve, but it's what my motor likes best. Don't feel cheated! Work with it, and give the motor what it wants.
Disconnect VOES, and change switch 1, give it a whirl.
Change switches, ride.
Tuning!

[Ohio HD]

Full timing advance of 35° is based on stock or near stock motors. Higher compression, different cam timing, gearing, etc. generally requires less full advance.

[1340evo]

Yes, I know the more tuned the less advance you need

I was just wondering how the advance lines (can't realy call them curves) look in comparison to the stock HD ones and if the HD ones are more of a curve?

Looking in the manual, all it says is max advance is 35 deg @ 1800-2800 for a BT

Sorry , whats a DTT

[hbkeith]

ive been playing with my Dyna 2000i , which i believe is the same unit as the Ultima , My RK EVO has Ported Heads ,EV27 Cam , Heads shaved for more compression , my Indy first tried curve 3 , Spark knock , put it on curve 4 it seemed good ran strong but loaded heavy on highway hot would spark knock , called DynaTech they recomended curve 2 with voes unpluged , NO it spark knocks worse . gona try curve 1 , if not happy going to try re timming it and retry curve 4

[1340evo]

I think the Dyna curves and the Ultima are different.
I've got ev27, K&N filter, open pipes.

Anyone have the HD curves?

[Hossamania]

Yes, I know the more tuned the less advance you need

I was just wondering how the advance lines (can't realy call them curves) look in comparison to the stock HD ones and if the HD ones are more of a curve?

Looking in the manual, all it says is max advance is 35 deg @ 1800-2800 for a BT

Sorry , whats a DTT

Daytona Twin Tech ignition. Replaces the ecu.

[1340evo]

Yes, I know the more tuned the less advance you need

I was just wondering how the advance lines (can't realy call them curves) look in comparison to the stock HD ones and if the HD ones are more of a curve?

Looking in the manual, all it says is max advance is 35 deg @ 1800-2800 for a BT

Sorry , whats a DTT

Daytona Twin Tech ignition. Replaces the ecu.

Looks like a lot more map options on that unit ....

[Hossamania]

Yes, I know the more tuned the less advance you need

I was just wondering how the advance lines (can't realy call them curves) look in comparison to the stock HD ones and if the HD ones are more of a curve?

Looking in the manual, all it says is max advance is 35 deg @ 1800-2800 for a BT

Sorry , whats a DTT

Daytona Twin Tech ignition. Replaces the ecu.

Looks like a lot more map options on that unit ....

There are, it also used Mass Air Flow sensor, as opposed to just a VOES.

[1340evo]

That's good if you have one   

[Scotty]

There are, it also used Mass Air Flow sensor, as opposed to just a VOES.

Hmmm that seems rather doubtful that DTT used a Mass Air Flow sensor on a Evo or a Twin Cam and that is based on using a lot of their products over the years.
Unless I have missed something could you point me to where you heard about this please.
I know the Twin Cams use a map sensor but that is not a Mass Air Flow Sensor in anyway shape or form and they still use the VOES with all the EVO ignitions.

[Hossamania]

I have mislabeled it as mass air flow when it is really a map sensor. Sorry for the confusion.

[Scotty]

I have mislabeled it as mass air flow when it is really a map sensor. Sorry for the confusion.

All good mate you had me scratching my head thinking I had missed something major on HD's 

[1340evo]

Does anyone have a programming cable for this unit, or know what web site Ultima uses in the US as I can't find them??

THanks

[Scotty]

Does anyone have a programming cable for this unit, or know what web site Ultima uses in the US as I can't find them??

THanks

You can't pin the cable out as it has a chip in it and does not use stand rx/tx commands.
You used to be able to buy a cheaper cable but the company no longer offers it for sale.
Ebay has some that are better priced than the Dyna site and I have never seen a Ultima cable and don't even know if they ever had them made.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154011311352?epid=656345511&hash=item23dbca1cf8:g:y-kAAOSwvzxfEhZE

[1340evo]

thank for that.. will see how the existing curves go first then.. fingers crossed.

Does anyone have any ideas as to the original HD curve the big black box gives you??

[14Frisco]

Does anyone have any ideas as to the original HD curve the big black box gives you??

What's the part number of the OEM ignition you are asking about?

[1340evo]

Does anyone have any ideas as to the original HD curve the big black box gives you??

What's the part number of the OEM ignition you are asking about?

its hard to read... 1989 FXR

think it says... 3241431 A or 4?   0189

Looking on e-bay there are a lot 32414-84A which I got to say it could be ..

[Burnout]

I put a police module on mine.
Different spark curve and higher rev limit.

[14Frisco]

its hard to read... 1989 FXR

think it says... 3241431 A or 4?   0189

Looking on e-bay there are a lot 32414-84A which I got to say it could be ..

According to the parts manual 1989 FXR came w/ 32405-88A.  Regardless, I don't have the curves for neither the 32405-88A nor a 32414-xx, sorry.

[1340evo]

Ok, thanks.. typically any idea if they differ from the picture shown above at all?.. not sure if the HD unit gives you a 10 point curve for example or if they are as basic as the cones shown for the Ultima with only a couple of points?

[Scotty]

Ok, thanks.. typically any idea if they differ from the picture shown above at all?.. not sure if the HD unit gives you a 10 point curve for example or if they are as basic as the cones shown for the Ultima with only a couple of points?

Typically the Ultima or Dynatek unit curve 1 has more advance than curve 2 and curve 2 is basically pretty much what the stock ignition curve is.
Go with curve 1 and if you have ping try curve 2 and it will probably be alright.

[1340evo]

Just been for a run, can't open it up fully yet as still running in... appears okay but not sure its any better that the HD module? will see once we can get going propper.

If you do get 'Ping' can you hear it over loud pipes okay? there is something on acceleration and load, but not sure its ping...

[Scotty]

Just been for a run, can't open it up fully yet as still running in... appears okay but not sure its any better that the HD module? will see once we can get going propper.

If you do get 'Ping' can you hear it over loud pipes okay? there is something on acceleration and load, but not sure its ping...

Bikes can make weird noises but ping is usually fairly evident if listening for it............like a empty can with ball bearings in it and give it shake for a few seconds.

[turboprop]

Just been for a run, can't open it up fully yet as still running in... appears okay but not sure its any better that the HD module? will see once we can get going propper.

If you do get 'Ping' can you hear it over loud pipes okay? there is something on acceleration and load, but not sure its ping...

If you really want to know for sure if the engine is experiencing pre-ignition or detonation get a lighted magnifying lens and look at the spark plugs. You will be looking for tiny balls of aluminum (from the pistons) and 'peppering'. The balls of aluminum indicate that aluminum from the piston is being transferred out of the exhaust. Some of which sticks to the spark plug. If you see this there is detonation. Peppering is similar, but is carbon being shaken loose from the top of the piston. Some of which will stick to the spark plug.

Honestly, from looking at your build, this is probably not an issue. You should probably set whatever ignition you have per the manufacturers instructions and be done with it. If you hear the 'hammers' beating inside your engine, then you should dive back into this, but I seriously doubt your engine will experience this. Ride your bike.

[1340evo]

Think your right. I've had Ping on car engines and as you say, you know when its there!
sure it will be good.. will take it out tonight for a longer spin... 

I also ordered a small RPM gauge so will be more confidant on where I am if it works

[Burnout]

My EVO would ping at very small throttle openings (cruising in town).
What was interesting is that it did not sound like pinging, it sounded like valve noise.
However valve noise does not come and go with the application of power.
The motor would tinkle if you lightly applied power (not enough to open the VOES).

[1340evo]

My EVO would ping at very small throttle openings (cruising in town).
What was interesting is that it did not sound like pinging, it sounded like valve noise.
However valve noise does not come and go with the application of power.
The motor would tinkle if you lightly applied power (not enough to open the VOES).

MMMmm that's interesting, especially the 'Tinkle' description as that's what I'm getting under light load... may have a go on map 2 when I get chance.
Rev counter works well for £12.. you can set it from 1 to 10 cylinders and the V-twin offset does not appear to phaze it

[1340evo]

Its dry here so got out for a ride tonight

Set off on map 1, goes very well, pulls great, vibrates at 2.5K appears to get hotter
Swap to map 2  , kind of settles down, pulls less, vibrates less, maybe a cooler

Does that add up... Am I doing any damage running on map 2... its not as powerfull I can tell that, but its a nicer ride.....

[Scotty]

Its dry here so got out for a ride tonight

Set off on map 1, goes very well, pulls great, vibrates at 2.5K appears to get hotter
Swap to map 2  , kind of settles down, pulls less, vibrates less, maybe a cooler

Does that add up... Am I doing any damage running on map 2... its not as powerfull I can tell that, but its a nicer ride.....

Map 2 is just a bit slower on advance and total advance but still runs well. I have a different cam to you and mine runs fine on map 2.
A custom curve in between the 2 works great though but you need the cable to upload.

[1340evo]

guess so, like a map 2 but going to 35 deg.... or I could move the whole map on the base plate. Take map two out to 35 deg.. would that work?

or is this the only way ? https://www.dynaonline.com/dyna-2000i-ignition-curvemaker-programming-kit-serial-dipk-1/

[Scotty]

guess so, like a map 2 but going to 35 deg.... or I could move the whole map on the base plate. Take map two out to 35 deg.. would that work?

or is this the only way ? https://www.dynaonline.com/dyna-2000i-ignition-curvemaker-programming-kit-serial-dipk-1/

I just use the cable as moving the plate would move the entire maps timing.

[1340evo]

yes it would, but only a few deg.... may be worth trying with map 1 ?.. which way do I go, guess I need to turn it a 2-3 deg clockwise?

I'll also put a post up to see if anyone has a cable maybe in the tuning section.

[Scotty]

The main problem is there is only a limited amount of break points so with map 1 you would increase the chance of pinging and map 2 well you just changed it to map 1 

Have a look at the software and load the various curves and look at the numbers and will become more obvious.

[1340evo]

No, I'm saying push map 1 more towards where map 2 is, so should reduce ping if anything. So you go clockwise a couple of deg I think ?? I do get confused with all this 

I'll download the software and take a look 

[capn]

Clockwise will advance timing.

[1340evo]

yes, you are correct, it needs to go in the direction of the cam to do what I want, with map 1 anyway.
With map 2 id need to take that clockwise....

Just down loaded the software and it does look quite good... how many point can you have on the curve as there is about 10 RPM points, so id say you can have 10... may have to invest in a cable