Tman 662-2 or CR630i

[harpwrench]

20/49
50/22
According to S&s site

[Hossamania]

We now know the cubic inches. Sorry if I missed that elsewhere if it is in the thread. The cam does work much differently at 124 VS 103". Remember "Combination" of parts.
A 45 exhaust open has all the look and feel of a hot running 124 with that much compression to me unless it is backed up 4 degrees. There are a lot better cams out there that don't need adjustment. It is not a bad cam or a bad cam manufacturer. just not a good match for the rest of the parts still with guesswork about what was done to the heads. The cam is a bit of a wrong choice, just not optimal. Look at how odd the timing is. The cam is retarded and has -2.5° ground in. It has a bit more overlap than is needed with capable heads and about a 105-106 LSA would work better. You pick the brand. You keep referencing lobe profile, better yet if you have access to a camdoctor and are measuring the seat to seat timing VS duration at .053, otherwise just talking points.

And that is the fun of seeing different builds! Some work, some don't, some surprise.

[838]

We now know the cubic inches. Sorry if I missed that elsewhere if it is in the thread. The cam does work much differently at 124 VS 103". Remember "Combination" of parts.
A 45 exhaust open has all the look and feel of a hot running 124 with that much compression to me unless it is backed up 4 degrees. There are a lot better cams out there that don't need adjustment. It is not a bad cam or a bad cam manufacturer. just not a good match for the rest of the parts still with guesswork about what was done to the heads. The cam is a bit of a wrong choice, just not optimal. Look at how odd the timing is. The cam is retarded and has -2.5° ground in. It has a bit more overlap than is needed with capable heads and about a 105-106 LSA would work better. You pick the brand. You keep referencing lobe profile, better yet if you have access to a camdoctor and are measuring the seat to seat timing VS duration at .053, otherwise just talking points.

I've noticed a lot of cams have been "re-designed" by the manufacturer(s) and most have added more exhaust duration and a later exhaust opening event. Would this be done to cool things down?

[kd]

20/49
50/22
According to S&s site

I posted mine above from the S&S site. 

added later:



It appears I used the Fuelmoto site specs when I was looking for a 124 comparison in Jamie's test dyno sheet examples.

[kd]

Weird twist. I think it's going to be an HP103 s&s at 10.8:1. SE58mm with 6.2 injectors. Ported 110" heads and the rush wrath. I suggested a new 2.5" baffle replacing the 3" that he has now.

Well...that should be interesting. I would suggest the 2.55 baffle.

I agree.  I'm trying to talk him in to taking it to a dyno operator up north. Selfishly I want to see the numbers 

If not, I'm sure I'll have a chance to ride it, and I have a handful of high power TC baggers to compare it with 👍.

It will no doubt be interesting.  I think the reliable "power" part of his stated goals will be missed.     He'll likely be a shifting son of a gun.

What S&S says: 

HP103: For the rider who really wants the most top end horsepower. Easily make 100 horses from a stock engine with S&S intake and exhaust. Ideal for lighter bikes and racing applications where getting the most horsepower from a stock engine is imperative.

"bolt-in cam set designed for stock or mildly modified touring bikes".

"Designed as bolt in cams for engines with 103 and stock 9.7:1 compression up to 10.5:1".



HP103      

      Open Close    Lift   Duration   TDC Lift
INT   20   49   .575      249      .199
EX   45   26   .575      251      .206

I remain optimistic. Those explanations are relevant for a bolt-in in a stock 96"-103" but this bike will have 28-21 more cubes and a whole point more compression than a stock 103". I know nothing about the profile of this cam, but the those timing events and duration above  look appropriate for a 10.8:1 124" touring build to me... I've only seen one dyno sheet for a built 106", it almost created 120/120 and the curve looked pretty good down low. We'll see... it does have a lot of overlap 🤷‍♂️.

I was not being critical. I truly meant it would be interesting to see the outcome from a set of cams that were so obviously intended for less stroke and bore.  Those are 2 influential conditions aside from the significantly extra cubic inches.  The compression build time and exhaust clearing characteristics will be so much different from a shorter stroke and smaller bore.  The head porting and exhaust will be critical components of making the build work. I would say he's blazing a trail not yet travelled (that I could find).  He could probably use component examples of a couple of other cams that are common like the CR575 to guide him closer.  I'll be following his progress if you share what you can with us.

[m1marty]

Please keep us posted as to the end results. I stand by the DME598 suggestion but very curious as to what his cam choice ends up doing.
This convo brings to mind two separate bikes I've dealt with this year. One was a 120R, TH-X exhaust, Latus 57mm etc. Customer was talked in to a TTS175 cam by another shop. I just tuned it.
2nd is another customer that was adamant about using 57s with a 4° sprocket in his 16 Electra.
Neither of those recipes are something *I* would have personally picked. End of the day, both bikes run great and customers are extremely happy. Maybe the same will happen for this guy?
[attach=0,msg1393658]  [attach=1,msg1393658]

[Don D]

Residual heat and lack of a complete blowdown causes pumping losses and detonation. A high compression motor burns quicker and needs a earlier opening exhaust event, not necessarily added duration.  The symptoms manifest in the real world not on a dyno, long grade on a hot day resulting in detonation. With efi it can be dealt with to a certain degree by the tuner after logging. These are not the flate rate tooners, the good guys.

[838]

Weird twist. I think it's going to be an HP103 s&s at 10.8:1. SE58mm with 6.2 injectors. Ported 110" heads and the rush wrath. I suggested a new 2.5" baffle replacing the 3" that he has now.

Well...that should be interesting. I would suggest the 2.55 baffle.

I agree.  I'm trying to talk him in to taking it to a dyno operator up north. Selfishly I want to see the numbers 

If not, I'm sure I'll have a chance to ride it, and I have a handful of high power TC baggers to compare it with 👍.

It will no doubt be interesting.  I think the reliable "power" part of his stated goals will be missed.     He'll likely be a shifting son of a gun.

What S&S says: 

HP103: For the rider who really wants the most top end horsepower. Easily make 100 horses from a stock engine with S&S intake and exhaust. Ideal for lighter bikes and racing applications where getting the most horsepower from a stock engine is imperative.

"bolt-in cam set designed for stock or mildly modified touring bikes".

"Designed as bolt in cams for engines with 103 and stock 9.7:1 compression up to 10.5:1".



HP103      

      Open Close    Lift   Duration   TDC Lift
INT   20   49   .575      249      .199
EX   45   26   .575      251      .206

I remain optimistic. Those explanations are relevant for a bolt-in in a stock 96"-103" but this bike will have 28-21 more cubes and a whole point more compression than a stock 103". I know nothing about the profile of this cam, but the those timing events and duration above  look appropriate for a 10.8:1 124" touring build to me... I've only seen one dyno sheet for a built 106", it almost created 120/120 and the curve looked pretty good down low. We'll see... it does have a lot of overlap 🤷‍♂️.

I was not being critical. I truly meant it would be interesting to see the outcome from a set of cams that were so obviously intended for less stroke and bore.  Those are 2 influential conditions aside from the significantly extra cubic inches.  The compression build time and exhaust clearing characteristics will be so much different from a shorter stroke and smaller bore.  The head porting and exhaust will be critical components of making the build work. I would say he's blazing a trail not yet travelled (that I could find).  He could probably use component examples of a couple of other cams that are common like the CR575 to guide him closer.  I'll be following his progress if you share what you can with us.

I don't mind critical at all. I'm always trying to learn more and that's what I like about this site!!I'm told that him and the head porter came to this decision together. I'm curious to see the outcome myself. He may not have dyno numbers, but I'll have a few 140/140 TC builds to compare it with after I ride it 👍. I'll keep updating this as it comes along.

[838]

Residual heat and lack of a complete blowdown causes pumping losses and detonation. A high compression motor burns quicker and needs a earlier opening exhaust event, not necessarily added duration.  The symptoms manifest in the real world not on a dyno, long grade on a hot day resulting in detonation. With efi it can be dealt with to a certain degree by the tuner after logging. These are not the flate rate tooners, the good guys.

What about using a 259E? 124" at 10.8ish??? I've seen them do great in 117's. Not asking about cams outside the context of all the parts working together.

[donk_316]

What about using a 259E? 124" at 10.8ish??? I've seen them do great in 117's. Not asking about cams outside the context of all the parts working together.

The 259E cam is great but since it's a SE cam, it gets pushed to the side almost automatically. It's pretty damn close to the cams discussed in this thread.

[Don D]

Residual heat and lack of a complete blowdown causes pumping losses and detonation. A high compression motor burns quicker and needs a earlier opening exhaust event, not necessarily added duration.  The symptoms manifest in the real world not on a dyno, long grade on a hot day resulting in detonation. With efi it can be dealt with to a certain degree by the tuner after logging. These are not the flate rate tooners, the good guys.

What about using a 259E? 124" at 10.8ish??? I've seen them do great in 117's. Not asking about cams outside the context of all the parts working together.

It seems to get the job done OK only if the compression is high enough. It is a reincarnation of the SE251 which used to be a grind that worked well in modified motors. Remembering Ed Ederdelyi

[838]

Residual heat and lack of a complete blowdown causes pumping losses and detonation. A high compression motor burns quicker and needs a earlier opening exhaust event, not necessarily added duration.  The symptoms manifest in the real world not on a dyno, long grade on a hot day resulting in detonation. With efi it can be dealt with to a certain degree by the tuner after logging. These are not the flate rate tooners, the good guys.

20/49
50/22

These are the actual specs on the cam the 45/26 On the exhaust was a misnomer.

[kd]

Sorry I wasn't clear enough in post 28.      I posted the wrong exhaust spec.  I got it from a site other than S&S.

[838]

Sorry I wasn't clear enough in post 28.      I posted the wrong exhaust spec.  I got it from a site other than S&S.

It's posted differently on several different sites. I don't know which is correct. I told him to call s&s and get the specs from one of their techs...

[98fxstc]

It may be the Seller has tweaked the cam specs and that fact has not been advertised or the advertising has not been updated.
I got some cams and the specs on the paper in the box were different than the advertised specs. The explanation I got from the Seller was that there were minor adjustments to the specs during development and whatever was on the paper in the box were the actual specs for those cams. ??

[838]

Got an update. It's going to be a woods tw9b

[turboprop]

Got an update. It's going to be a woods tw9b

I really like the 9b. Funny to see all the different twists and turns this thread has taken. This is going in a heavy bike with a big block?

[838]

Got an update. It's going to be a woods tw9b

I really like the 9b. Funny to see all the different twists and turns this thread has taken. This is going in a heavy bike with a big block?

Yes. Road Glide, 124" 10.8:1. I had these 9B's for my personal 117" that I never used.

I've never ridden a bike with a 9B, Don suggested them for me for my 117" based on my riding style (at 11.2:1 with a 4* advance), but my 117 is running well and I don't plan on touching it (famous last words)... I'm excited to ride this one.

[Coff 06]

On his recommendations.I have the 9b in my 98" FXSTS at 11.25 w/+4* and Don's Pro Street heads.
123/118 It's a blast to ride.Switched from a 2-2 to a 2-1 Python 3 .Power is always there and almost angry.
Good luck with the build          Coff 06

[planemech]

Ive run the old version 662-2 and the 630i in the same motor and agree with NoCents. Mine was a 117 at the time, -2s were like a lot of opinions here, on or off. Kinda annoying in switch back corners. 630i felt faster even though they showed about 5/5 less power/tq and were a lot smoother. I did loose about 5 lbs CCP so if that had been corrected the numbers probably would have been really close. Currently running the 630i in a 124 at 11.3:1 and have been really happy with them. Power everywhere I need it and smooth.

[838]

Big fan of the Mackie 598 here. Have used it quite a bit over the years to include 2 of my own bikes. Quiet valve train and makes the #s

Breaking in a 124" B motor right now with a 598 at 10.8:1. It's only tuned to 4500 and 60% throttle. It plays real nice in these low rpms, and can still get going real quick rolling on short shifting. I can tell it wants it's neck rung though! Quietest valve train I've herd, quieter than my personal 117" CR595i build (which I didn't think would be possible). 95 degree weather when I rode it and ET on the PV never went over 240* either. I'm doing a 124" B motor myself and I'm going to duplicate the setup on this one. I'll have more info in a few days.

Don, you were spot on. The 598 will suit my needs very nicely 👍👍.

[Don D]

When I get calls that is where the topic usually starts and ends, cams. Any more I avoid the topic as it just isn't the only important element and I want to be sure the customer realizes that. When I get there parts here we can get serious about it.
Well good news or bad news depending on which bike wins is either you or your buddies bike will be faster.
I know a guy that can help with yours.

[m1marty]

Big fan of the Mackie 598 here. Have used it quite a bit over the years to include 2 of my own bikes. Quiet valve train and makes the #s

Breaking in a 124" B motor right now with a 598 at 10.8:1. It's only tuned to 4500 and 60% throttle. It plays real nice in these low rpms, and can still get going real quick rolling on short shifting. I can tell it wants it's neck rung though! Quietest valve train I've herd, quieter than my personal 117" CR595i build (which I didn't think would be possible). 95 degree weather when I rode it and ET on the PV never went over 240* either. I'm doing a 124" B motor myself and I'm going to duplicate the setup on this one. I'll have more info in a few days.

Don, you were spot on. The 598 will suit my needs very nicely 👍👍.

As I've posted a few times- I'm a big fan of that cam. It has consistently been a winner for me and every single build has a dead quiet valve train to boot.

[838]

When I get calls that is where the topic usually starts and ends, cams. Any more I avoid the topic as it just isn't the only important element and I want to be sure the customer realizes that. When I get there parts here we can get serious about it.
Well good news or bad news depending on which bike wins is either you or your buddies bike will be faster.
I know a guy that can help with yours.

Run it at 11.25:1? Marty, have you tuned one with that compression?

I've completely derailed my own thread 🤦‍♂️

[m1marty]

When I get calls that is where the topic usually starts and ends, cams. Any more I avoid the topic as it just isn't the only important element and I want to be sure the customer realizes that. When I get there parts here we can get serious about it.
Well good news or bad news depending on which bike wins is either you or your buddies bike will be faster.
I know a guy that can help with yours.

Run it at 11.25:1? Marty, have you tuned one with that compression?

I've completely derailed my own thread 🤦‍♂️

I have one in a 113 Dyna at a tick over 11:1. No issue. I have set them at 10.5 to 11+
I stay pretty conservative (195-200 +/-) for most of my customers.