front engine mount not sitting square?

[1340evo]

Why would the shock length influence the front mount angle / position?

I don't know the reason but it pushes or pull the transmission mount away from being centered in the hole and puts pressure on the mount.
Seen it more than a few times now so I do not attach the shocks until the motor/tranny are aligned when installing in unknown combination.
Take the chrome buttons out the swingarm ends and see if the mount is centered and in the same position both sides.

Kind of see where youre coming from.. they are the same but not centred, but then they are not centred when new, the shaft should sit about 11 oclock looking at mine and a good number of pics when I changed them over

[1340evo]

If the obvious causes do not provide a solution, maybe the fit is due to a variation in the engine casting or a variation in the frame mounting location or a bit of both.
How about making up a wedge shaped spacer to fit with the front motor mount. (2.5 mm for 50mm dia )
Then everything will bolt up in its happy place ?

Kind of thought all that before, youd need sperical seats and washers for under the bolt / nut head as they would be on an angle also... Maybe the best way to sort it would be the twist the bracket on the frame by 3 deg so it holds it up right to the existing metal bit... but it would crack my paint

[Scotty]

Kind of see where youre coming from.. they are the same but not centred, but then they are not centred when new, the shaft should sit about 11 oclock looking at mine and a good number of pics when I changed them over

Well the alignment tool I have holds the transmission shaft at center in the hole so that the transmission cannot move vertical or horizontal and you leave this in until the front is done up and both stabilizer links are set correctly so that the bolt just falls through and does up with no tension. At this point you can release and connect up the rear shocks.

[kd]

I'm thinkin Scotty has hit on it.  They (the new rear mounts) probably weren't centered because the front mount was holding them out of position and they flexed into the old spot when pulled into place.  Follow his instructions and it should reseat properly.  Something similar can happen with the 2 front mounts on a late model 09 up touring.

[1340evo]

Do you have a picture of the setting tool at all, but I don't see there being enough movement in the rear mounts to cause this issue at the front?

If anyone has a front mount plate off and can measure it's angle.. mine's measuring 27 deg which in itself is curiouse

The drawing of the frame is interesting.. it shows the mounting plate at 31 deg 35 min. assuming the engine goes in level and they calculated for the height of the mount, that should be the same angle on the metal bit... not sure if the assumptions are correct tho?

[Scotty]

Do you have a picture of the setting tool at all, but I don't see there being enough movement in the rear mounts to cause this issue at the front?

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Should be obvious how they work but let me know if not

[1340evo]

Mmm, dont you get the same leveling your frame and leveling the swing arm with a spirit level. Thats how I did it before...

frame drawing is interesting tho... I need to check the angle on the metal front mount plate somehow

[Scotty]

Mmm, dont you get the same leveling your frame and leveling the swing arm with a spirit level. Thats how I did it before...

Not with the shocks attached like people think as it pushes everything out of line.
This holds the swingarm and transmission in place with no vertical or horizontal movement possible which is exactly where you want it when setting everything.
I have seen it so bad on one bike it was like a crab down the road and the vibration was shocking.
With those and a small bike lift I had it set back up correctly in under an hour.

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[1340evo]

So the flat bits bolt round the top hanger bolt, the turned bit go in the hole, and the screws into the end of the swig arm axle.
Only thing is my swing arm axle is not in the middle of the hanger hole, it sits about 11 oclock

[Scotty]

So the flat bits bolt round the top hanger bolt, the turned bit go in the hole, and the screws into the end of the swig arm axle.
Only thing is my swing arm axle is not in the middle of the hanger hole, it sits about 11 oclock

That is the problem you need to push and manipulate the trans/motor back and down until the swing arm axle is in the middle and lock it down there and then adjust everything else to suit. Once everything else is in place then release the swing arm axle and it will find it's natural place correctly but at the moment it is forced.

[1340evo]

It will never be in the middle of the bolt on blocks as the hole in the rear mount is not central to the bit that locates in the block.. see picture 1 below.. and picture 2 is what I have now.
To address my issue, I'd have to go up in these blocks to bring the front of the front mount down, but it's not possable

I think the frame drawing kind of confirms my front metal bit is out. If someone was to measure a front mount i'm sure we'd see 150 to 149 deg angle on the thing. Wonder if anyone has their engine out right now so could do it?

I have a drawing ready for Monday anyway. Increased to 8mm thick and with 3 deg on what I have now. I'll get one lasered out and bent up, see where we are then

[14Frisco]

Not explicitly for a 1989 FXR, but HD-46247A VEHICLE ALIGNMENT TOOL might be of interest.

[1340evo]

Not explicitly for a 1989 FXR, but HD-46247A VEHICLE ALIGNMENT TOOL might be of interest.

Thanks for that, interesting read, guess its the same sort of thing that Scotty explains. But I can see how you can center the shaft in the blocks as the hole is off set? wonder if newer ones use rubbers with the hole in the midle, or are we just centering with any play between the hole in the mount and the shaft??

[FSG]

HD-46247A VEHICLE ALIGNMENT TOOL

[1340evo]

Sorry, last post should say 'I CAN'T see how you can centre the shaft in the blocks as the holes in the rubber bit are not in the middle. Also they have a notch out of them that locates on a pin in the housing, so you're limited there also??

Scotty, do the ali turned bits fit into the blocks and are a nice fit in the hole, or are they very loose so you can get them off ctr?

[1340evo]

My Mate sent me a picture of his mount (can't post it here as it's not my picture?) but it shows the angle on his at 31.3 deg. so does look like they should match the angle on the frame bracket.

Will get one made up tomorrow

[HogMike]

My Mate sent me a picture of his mount (can't post it here as it's not my picture?) but it shows the angle on his at 31.3 deg. so does look like they should match the angle on the frame bracket.

Will get one made up tomorrow

What is the angle on the one you already have?
If it's 31.3 it should be the same as you show on the frame mount point.
If not maybe your original one was bent at one time?
I guess at least now you have measurements that you can check.
If I missed it, was this bike ever in an accident?

[HogMike]

I'll have my evo on the lift soon as I'm finished with the softail for now, just have to move some bikes around.

I can check level point on that bike if need be. Will also give me a chance to do some cleaning!

[1340evo]

The one I have is 27 deg, so it's opened up? Strange thing is, there is no way I can bend it back.. its very strong for 1/4" metal.
Two people now say the angle should be the same as the one on the frame and that kind of adds up.
Also watch a video on the front mount and how important it is not to bind them up... thats why you run the motor with it lose so its not binding side to side...
but guess mine is binding front to back when its re-torqued up?

Will be making a new one this week (quickest way in the UK) and see what its like then... do hope it solves the problem

[FSG]

(can't post it here as it's not my picture?)

upload it to an image hosting site ( e.g.  https://imgur.com/ ) and then post a link to it here

[HogMike]

The one I have is 27 deg, so it's opened up? Strange thing is, there is no way I can bend it back.. its very strong for 1/4" metal.
Two people now say the angle should be the same as the one on the frame and that kind of adds up.
Also watch a video on the front mount and how important it is not to bind them up... thats why you run the motor with it lose so its not binding side to side...
but guess mine is binding front to back when its re-torqued up?

Will be making a new one this week (quickest way in the UK) and see what its like then... do hope it solves the problem

Too bad about taking too long to get one.
There's some on eBay with rubber and link for $25us

[98fxstc]

John Sachs has pics and method for alignment tool similar to Scotty in homemade tools section (for touring)

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,1733.0.html

[1340evo]

Hi, and thanks for the link.
Thats all well and good if the shaft will go into the middle of the hole, but my rubbers take mine off ctr? (see post 85 above)
So they wont center? and even if I could get them in the middle by forcing them, they would just spring back soon as I released them..

So guess you guys are running rubber mounts that put the shaft in the middle of the clamp plate hole?

[Ajayrk]

Are the covers for the rubber bushing left and right specific?  The alignment pin on the cover should be up.

[motorhogman]

Hi, and thanks for the link.
Thats all well and good if the shaft will go into the middle of the hole, but my rubbers take mine off ctr? (see post 85 above)
So they wont center? and even if I could get them in the middle by forcing them, they would just spring back soon as I released them..

So guess you guys are running rubber mounts that put the shaft in the middle of the clamp plate hole?

The rubber mounts on my 01 FLHT have off centered holes.  Just looked at a set I changed out a while ago.. I'll have to assume the ones I put in there (OEM 47564-86B) are also offset..